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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Blue Mold (Penicillium roqueforti) Ripened => Topic started by: BobE102330 on August 06, 2012, 12:37:16 PM

Title: First Stilton approximation
Post by: BobE102330 on August 06, 2012, 12:37:16 PM
A busy cheese making weekend, trying to get my fridge full. 

Used the Washington Cheese Guild Stilton Approximation recipe, at least tried to.  With 1/4 tsp of Flora Danica in 2 gallons of P/H milk  and a pint of cream ripened 90 minutes at 86-87 degrees with a morge made from a blue whose bite I like. Renneted with 1/2 tsp of cheesemaking.com calf rennet.  90 minutes later still no flocculation.  Added another 1/4 teaspoon of diluted rennet and it finally set up after another 2 hours (I'd given up after half an hour and didn't notice flocculation), but didn't really give a clean break. 

Let it heal an hour or so, stirred as gently as possible and the whey was still quite milky.  I was ready to give up thinking I'd never get a curd I could mold.  After sitting a bit longer (lost track) It looked firm enough to drain, so I did.  Let it sit in the covered pot overnight and was greeted with a mass of fairly firm curd and clear whey.  Encouraged by this find I milled, salted and molded. 

After a few flips it is starting to knit.  I may get something useful after all.

I'm still getting used to the liquid rennet again.  My first uses were Rikki Carroll recipes, with twice as much starter as most recipes here.  It was before I learned about flocculation, but I usually got a clean break in about an hour.  Now using the smaller amount of starter I have had floc times over an hour twice. (from one extreme to the other - using those veggie rennet tabs I was getting 5 minute floc) With my Camembert  3, I got flocculation in 5 minutes after adding the second dose of rennet at an hour.  I used 1/4 tsp this time, and got a long (over 30 minutes)  floc after the second dose. 

Could be 6 month old rennet be losing strength?  It's been living on my fridge door and I have a son who loves to stare into the fridge waiting for a prepared meal to jump out at him.  Next make I will start with 3/4 tsp of rennet, hopefully that will get me reasonable floc time.

Pictures later maybe.
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: bbracken677 on August 06, 2012, 02:06:30 PM
Am a novice, so my 2 cents worth is just that : )

Perhaps you should increase your starter, particularly if using Pasteurized milk. From all I have read, as well as experienced, raw milk has more of the bacterial agents at the start than does pasteurized. Could the recipes you are using be designed for use with raw milk?

I know that I have made feta with store bought pasteurized/homogenized milk and I used the prescribed amount of starter culture and also added some morge. It seemed that when I use raw milk the whole process seems a bit more "active".

If you try increasing your starter, then dont increase your rennet application. I am always of a mind to make one change at a time, then you will firmly know what the cause/effects are.
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: BobE102330 on August 06, 2012, 03:19:32 PM
Thanks, I was thinking along that line if adding a little extra rennet didn't get me reasonable floc times.
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: BobE102330 on August 09, 2012, 11:39:25 AM
Hurray! It is turning blue.  It feels like I got the curds a little too hard before molding, it doesn't really want to spread to fill gaps.  It's a learning process, right?
Fuzzy picture of blue fuzz
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/269737_3026684165806_151184395_n.jpg)
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: H-K-J on August 09, 2012, 02:20:53 PM
WOW!! can't believe the Blue you have showing all ready :o
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: BobE102330 on August 10, 2012, 01:13:45 AM
12 hours later it's really taken off.  Not particularly pungent (yet), but the mold I used to start this seems pretty aggressive.  It's in a 70 degree room for now.

It's pretty obvious that I let the curds get too dry before molding - lots of spaces and they are too tough to spread.  Ideas for aging now?  A natural rind will get pretty deep into the cheese.  I can always make another and use some newer curd to fill the holes. Or should I just give it a couple weeks in the cave and vacuum bag it? 

My blue cheese loving cat forced her way past me to check out this cheese.

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/405313_3028472450512_613569721_n.jpg)
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: JeffHamm on August 10, 2012, 07:01:25 AM
Hi Bob,

You can put a knife in hot water to heat it up to aid in spreading out the surface.  The one attempt at a blue I've made also had a very aggressive mould.  Nice that you've got two of them.  I would test one at 40 days. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: BobE102330 on August 10, 2012, 12:48:24 PM
Thanks Jeff.  I am so glad that this isn't the aggressive blue that I found in my basement.  I lost a few cheeses to that one. 
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: H-K-J on August 10, 2012, 01:17:58 PM
Hi Bob,
You can put a knife in hot water to heat it up to aid in spreading out the surface. . 
- Jeff


I tried to do that on one of my cheese, I thought it was a pain, and now I just hand rub them,
I did rub my 5 gallon (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10033.0.html) cheese last night and will be posting pix' later today.
were yours is that dry the hot knife sounds like the way to go, still can't get over how blue it is :P
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: Boofer on August 10, 2012, 01:57:09 PM
Thanks Jeff.  I am so glad that this isn't the aggressive blue that I found in my basement.  I lost a few cheeses to that one.
OMG, sounds like some kind of cheese Boogeyman living down there.  :o

-Boofer-
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: BobE102330 on August 10, 2012, 02:18:54 PM
That's a pretty good description.  I missed a rind wash by going away a weekend and despite removing the mold, the cheeses had a distinct to overwhelming taste of moldy basement. 

The feel of the mold fuzz was deceiving.  A light touch with a hot knife made things smooth out nicely.  Into the cave with you...

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/559111_3029818524163_1306074697_n.jpg)
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: H-K-J on August 10, 2012, 03:25:15 PM
Ahhhh, That looks much nicer good job ;)
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: bbracken677 on August 10, 2012, 05:25:26 PM
wow...those look amaaazing!
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: BobE102330 on August 19, 2012, 07:16:18 PM
Here we are at two weeks old.  It was pierced 5 days ago, I think the skewer I used was too small.  Will pierce again in a week with a bigger knitting needle.

(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s720x720/378271_3056993043509_195476839_n.jpg)

Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: BobE102330 on August 29, 2012, 11:51:13 PM
Now at three weeks, it is starting to look like a Stilton.  Pierced again with a larger skewer a few days ago.  Eagerly awaiting the first taste.  I want to try to wait for 60 days or more, but may not be able to stand it. 
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: H-K-J on August 30, 2012, 02:08:22 PM
Looks good :o the PR is growing nicely, I waited 10 weeks on my 3 gallon (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9796.0.html) Stilton and should have waited at least 12  :-\
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: Boofer on August 31, 2012, 05:14:13 AM
Looks good :o the PR is growing nicely, I waited 10 weeks on my 3 gallon ([url]http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9796.0.html[/url]) Stilton and should have waited at least 12  :-\
And 7 weeks for my Fourme d'Ambert (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9508.msg71676.html#msg71676) was perfect.  :)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: H-K-J on August 31, 2012, 02:50:59 PM
And yes Boofer a mighty fine looking cheese it is (or was ;) )
one thing I have been seeing on different blue makes is that the ones that have used a slurry from their favorite blue cheese, instead of a PR/PV or PR/PA dry mold culture (http://www.thecheesemaker.com/products/Penicillium-Roqueforti-PV.html) , those makes seem to have a more aggressive mold growth than my cheeses have had using said culture, this could be why some of the other makes have a big blue bite that maybe to strong for some and do need to shorten ageing time compared to what I am experiencing, just sayin  :)
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: Boofer on September 01, 2012, 05:55:12 AM
And yes Boofer a mighty fine looking cheese it is (or was ;) )
Thanks. Still there...vacuum-sealed and doing fine. 8)

You know, I bought some PRB18 a while back and have used very little compared to slurries here and there for different makes. I guess I need to drag it out and go through the Stilton cycle again. I wasn't thrilled the first couple times I did it though...too strong.  :P

-Boofer-
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: bbracken677 on September 01, 2012, 08:51:46 PM
I read your other thread and it brought up a procedural question...

Since your blue culture was a bit strong...could you, perhaps, add it to the curds prior to pressing and in that way slow/reduce blue development for a milder result? (got the idea from your differing applications of slurry over the 2 makes of FdA)

Really impressed with your cheeses, Boofer!
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: BobE102330 on September 01, 2012, 09:03:10 PM
It's funny, although the PR I cultured grew aggressively it does not have a strong bite. The cheese I took it from was still a medium bite after 3 months in the fridge. Maybe I just put a lot of it in the mix.
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: Boofer on September 01, 2012, 10:45:45 PM
I read your other thread and it brought up a procedural question...

Since your blue culture was a bit strong...could you, perhaps, add it to the curds prior to pressing and in that way slow/reduce blue development for a milder result? (got the idea from your differing applications of slurry over the 2 makes of FdA)

Really impressed with your cheeses, Boofer!
Thanks. In my first FdA I added the slurry to the curds before moulding. In the second, the slurry was added to the milk with the cultures. If I understand you, you're suggesting to add the PRB18 to the curds as in my FdA #1 instead of to the milk as in FdA #2, right? Might be worth a try. Might minimize the blue saturation.

I didn't much care for the rind either. Wonder what a Stiltonesque cheese would be with a brined rind like Fourme d'Ambert? That rind is eminently edible.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: bbracken677 on September 01, 2012, 10:49:49 PM
Bob-I really love blue cheese and the stilton blue, such as you have made here, is rising on my short list of cheeses to make. What advice can you give to enhance a creamy interior paste?

Boofer-Sounds like a plan...something I may give a shot (brined rind).  I will have to do more research on this. I have read some of the threads related to blues, but I think it's time to dive into the deep end of the pool!   ;)
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: BobE102330 on September 07, 2012, 02:11:42 PM
Watching this cheese mature is a lot of fun.  Here they are at a month.  Only 5" in diameter, next time will be bigger.

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/331461_3115932916969_577070108_o.jpg)
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: BobE102330 on September 15, 2012, 07:15:13 PM
Had to sneak a peek before this afternoon's party. Ok, I snuck a taste too. It's going to be hard not eating this before the guests arrive. Creamy paste, nice bite but not biting back. It's not as white as the iPhone  camera makes it look. I'm a happy cheese maker, having succeded in making the cheese that got me interested in making cheese in the first place.

I guess I don't know how to post pictures from my phone. When I get home I will post pictures of this handsome cheese.
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: JeffHamm on September 16, 2012, 05:37:05 AM
Sounds like a success!  So you aged it just over a month?  I think my next blue make will be relatively short aged and I'll work my aging up, rather than working back.  A cheese to your success.

- Jeff
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: BobE102330 on September 17, 2012, 03:30:58 AM
Thanks, Jeff.  As far as I am concerned it is a success, one of the best cheeses I remember having (even accounting for parental pride)

Aged it just under 6 weeks (41 days)  Remember you suggested trying one at 40 days Jeff?  This PR didn't seem to get any stronger in the mother cheese than it is now.
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: Tomer1 on September 17, 2012, 08:26:06 AM
Looks creamy! :)
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: bbracken677 on September 17, 2012, 12:14:30 PM
Very nice looking cheese there!  My next blue will be a stilton for sure! Working on a gorgonzola currently....smells like dirty socks !!  The blue is just starting to take hold.
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: BobE102330 on September 17, 2012, 12:36:02 PM
Thanks.  Yes, it is very creamy.  Topped a burger with some yesterday including rind, it was like eating a Stilton sandwich. (should have made a better burger)

Torn about the next make - I just bought some larger molds from Yoav so I could make a single cheese from a 2 gallon make.  A nice big hunk of moldy cheese or another pair of little ones.  My circle of friends includes very few who appreciate moldy cheeses.  My blue loving son is moving out (bittersweet).  At least my sweetie will eat it with me (in small portions, sans rind) and her mother is a big fan.  On the other hand there is something nice about a huge blue cheese...

Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: bbracken677 on September 17, 2012, 02:15:37 PM
I think I will be focusing on cheddared cheeses for a while. I can make some short aged ones as well as some to put in the cave for 6 months or a year. I really like the aged cheddars and am looking forward to tackling those.
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: Spellogue on September 17, 2012, 03:47:51 PM
Beautiful cheeses, Bob.  Thanks for posting your progress.  I've got two "goat milk Stilton" experiments aging since mid July.  Perhaps it's time to sample one.  The rind looks similar to yours, but with a bit spottier coverage on one side.  I can only hope the paste is as pretty as yours.

I've only used a dried powder inoculant on my blues so far.  I think I might try a slurry from a store bought blue on the next one, seeing so many folks have seen good results using them.  Is there a separate post describing the process? 
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: bbracken677 on September 17, 2012, 03:51:11 PM
Boofer has done it a couple of times with stiltons. If you search the blue category of the forums for stilton you should find his notes. That is what influenced me to use them    :)
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: BobE102330 on September 17, 2012, 05:46:01 PM
Thaks Spellogue, 

There's not much to a slurry.  I took about a quarter teaspoon of the mother cheese, getting as much blue and as little paste as I could.  Put it in half a cup of dechlorinated water in a sterile glass, whisked (forked actually) until no/few lumps remained.  I added it to the milk along with the Flora Danica.  Boofer was my inspiration, too.  I like the slurry method because it is essentially free and I had an idea how much bite the end result would have.

Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: bbracken677 on September 17, 2012, 05:50:14 PM
You can also make the cheese and add the slurry to the curds as you place them in the mold.
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: Spellogue on September 17, 2012, 06:06:11 PM
It does sound easy. I like the idea of dressing the curds with a slurry, might make for more even distribution than with a powdered innoculant.  Not only will I have an example of the strain this way.  There will be more cheese to eat.

My next make was to be a batch of camemberts, but they may have to wait while I start another blue.
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: bbracken677 on September 17, 2012, 06:17:15 PM
Cams are pretty fun to make...the most important part for them is the affinage (aging) environment. Refer to my thread on triple cream camemberts...I was given a ton of information in that thread that helped me past a bunch of potential blunders and mishaps. Mine are still aging (save for the one I cut open early) and doing well! I look forward to another taste test in 10-14 days. I do think that the next time I make them I will hold off on any added cream. That has extended my aging period, I am pretty sure, although if they turn out really good I may be singing a different tune  lol
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: Spellogue on September 17, 2012, 06:54:22 PM
Yes, camembert is a great cheese, my wife's longtime favorite.  A touch fussy, with all the flipping and the humidity concerns you mention.  I make just about everything, including my cams, with goat milk (we raise nigerian dwarfs).  Nigerians give a high milk-solid, high butterfat milk, but nowhere near a triple cream level.  I've had good results so far.  If I'm correct Camembert, unlike Brie, isn't often made as a triple or even double cream cheese.  I'll try it with added cow cream some day though.  Something like a mini-Brie I suppose. 

I aged my last cams 6 weeks and feel they could have gone longer.  I'm still aging in the food fridge though, and that slows things down considerably. Blooms take longer too, but I seem to be able to keep  bad molds at bay a little easier too.  Problem comes in with the blues, lots of bad blue floating around the fridge.  Harder to tell it apart from the good stuff, but the nose knows. (sometimes I have to resort to taste though). Hopefully slurrying a selection of classic blues will get the fridge flora to where I want it.  I really need to build a proper cave.

I might only keep the girls in milk for another month, two at the most, so I'll need to choose upcoming makes wisely and include enough hard/long aging cheeses in the mix.  Perhaps a Valdeon or a Cabrales.  Maybe I'll pick one up for the blue slurry.  We live in the sticks, no decent cheesemonger anywhere nearby.  Might warrant a trip to Cleveland or Akron.  Or perhaps I could expect to find good Spanish cheese in Toledo.  ;)
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: BobE102330 on September 17, 2012, 08:09:19 PM
Ripening blue in a regular food fridge might take a VERY long time.  Good Blue typically prefers much warmer temperatures, 50-55F.  I went away for a couple of days and put these in the fridge with a little hint ofg blue showing.  Three days later they looked exactly the same.  One day out at 70F after that and I had a good covering of blue.   Use a ripening box to isolate your cheese from the rest of the fridge and keep the humidity up.  I've found it helpful to arrange some sort of condensation tent to direct droplets away from the cheese.  You'll constantly reintroduce other flora when you bring home vegetables.
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: Spellogue on September 17, 2012, 08:24:03 PM
We have an unfinished room in the cellar that stays cooler in the winter, but it has a musty smell I can't eliminate, try as I might.  I might  set a cooler in there at the end of the fall to use,  once it cools down and I can get a good read on the temps.  Until then the family will have to tolerate all my ripening boxes hogging space in the fridge.  In the winter I keep most parts of the house around 65.  I might experiment with moving cheeses between that and colder temps in the fridge.  Not sure if regular temp fluctuation would have any adverse effect on cheeses though.
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: BobE102330 on September 17, 2012, 08:36:36 PM
sounds like the kind of basement that destroyed several of my cheeses.  A sealed ripening box might work if you get the volume to cheese ratio right for the correct humidity. 
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: Boofer on September 18, 2012, 02:02:26 PM
Boofer was my inspiration, too.
:-[ Ahhh, you guys... :-[

-Boofer-
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: H-K-J on September 26, 2012, 02:06:32 AM
WOW the cavity veining looks so good  :P
A cheese to you  ;D
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: BobE102330 on September 26, 2012, 11:12:00 AM
Thank you
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: Tiarella on October 14, 2012, 12:17:10 PM
We have an unfinished room in the cellar that stays cooler in the winter, but it has a musty smell I can't eliminate, try as I might.  I might  set a cooler in there at the end of the fall to use,  once it cools down and I can get a good read on the temps.  Until then the family will have to tolerate all my ripening boxes hogging space in the fridge.  In the winter I keep most parts of the house around 65.  I might experiment with moving cheeses between that and colder temps in the fridge.  Not sure if regular temp fluctuation would have any adverse effect on cheeses though.

What have you done so far to try to "un-mustify" that unfinished room in your cellar.  I am jealous since my cellar is too warm so I'd love to see you succeed at having a cheese room.  I'm wondering about one of those air purifiers and/or using an essential oil diffuser with a non-mold blend in it for a while to clear out any microbes/fungus that are creating or contributing to the musty smell. I have a de-molding blend I bought from a friend for clearing mold out of areas.  She had a mold in the house problem that made her sick and she, being an amazing herbalist/healer, created a blend for it. 
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: Spellogue on October 14, 2012, 05:20:51 PM
We scrubbed the bare cinderblock walls with bleach when we moved in.  Worked for a short bit, but the funk came right back.  It's a challenge, as there are a bunch of built in shelves.  We use it as a pantry only for canned goods.  Can't even store boxed good in there.  Thought about trying a dehumidifier, but even if that works it defeats the purpose.  The finished parts of the basement don't have that aroma, so there is hope.  It's going to be a long term project I suppose.  Meanwhile I might try well sealed boxes.  The temp doesn't get down to the 50s in there until winter anyway.
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: Tiarella on October 15, 2012, 02:53:53 AM
People with chemical sensitivities use a clear sealant that seals in all outgassing VOCs from cabinets, flooring, etc.  I bet you could seal the blocks and that would do the trick......seal and then wash one more time?  And an air purifier might work better than a humidifier.  Hmmmmmm.
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: Spellogue on October 15, 2012, 03:04:22 AM
Sealing might be the thing to do.  We also have a similar room on the opposite side of the basement that we use to store firewood.  The block is painted in that room and it doesn't have the funk.  Another project on the horizon.
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: Spellogue on October 15, 2012, 03:14:44 AM
Say Bob, any further sampling of your Stilton yet?  The veining penetrated so nicely already.  The 'goat Stilton I mentioned didn't have any veining deeper than about 1/2".  There was mild blue flavor throughout, but no visible veining.  Mechanical gaps must have been too few and far between.   There were two of these cheeses, one remains.  I'm debating piercing it.  Would that be a bad idea nearly 4 months into it?
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: BobE102330 on October 15, 2012, 11:16:44 AM
I have a small wedge left. It has been thoroughly enjoyable. Much like the cheese that donated the PR it hasn't developed more bite and has donated some of its mold to a new cheese. My second Stilton approximation is a nearly 3 gallon make that gave me a 3.6 pound cheese.  It didn't knit too well because my kitchen got cold, sol I am expecting even more blue veining.
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: Spellogue on October 15, 2012, 03:16:22 PM
Before you know it you'll have a tenth generation cheese propagated from the additional morge!

 It will be interesting to see if the strain evolves or shows different characteristics from any changes in each progressive make. 
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: michael fruin on November 06, 2012, 01:05:01 AM
I made a stilton 3 months ago put it in the fridge in a plastic box. It blued nicely but isn't getting that classic stilton crusty mold on the outside.  Does anyone have a suggestion? 

Also, does anyone have a Shropshire recipe?

Michael
Title: Re: First Stilton approximation
Post by: H-K-J on November 06, 2012, 02:38:33 AM
Whats the temp of the fridge ?
what's the RH?
If you used a regular fridge I'm thinkin way to cold for PR to grow  :-\
 Maybe start a new thread? just so we can discus it