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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Washed Rind & Smear Ripened => Topic started by: Alpkäserei on October 24, 2012, 05:03:13 AM

Title: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Alpkäserei on October 24, 2012, 05:03:13 AM
Washed rind cheeses are fascinating. There are so many possibilities when developing the rind of a cheese to add a unique flavor, texture, or note that truly makes it a work of art and skill.

I learned how to make cheese well in the Swiss Alps of the Canton of Bern. The cheeses here are all washed rinds -no mold allowed. I told them about some French style cheeses that intentionally mold the rind, and they thought this was bizarre, and couldn't understand why anyone would do such a thing.

The wash I learned was simple. A little water, a little salt, and a little white wine (no b. linen cultures or anything like that). This makes a nice golden brown rind which really has a pleasant, simple flavor. The wine also does a quick job of making the surface uninviting to any molds. I found that even in my blue mold infested cellar in damp humid Indiana, this wash keeps my cheeses spotless.

After my weeks on the Alp, I traveled around and sampled other cheeses from the country. Quickly I learned that across the country, the recipe of the wash varies tremendously. Even in the Berner Oberland, producers of the same cheese (Berner Alpkäse, the most wonderful thing on earth, well maybe the second most wonderful thing) vary their wash. Some might use a different wine, some might use no wine, some add a little spice to their wash. This of course is most evident in the famous Appenzeller Cheese (a very fine cheese, if you are fortunate enough to ever actually get top quality, mature cheese) where the specific herbs and spices of the wash are a very closely guarded secret (a secret that is the center of an entertaining Swiss advertising campaign).

The German-speaking Swiss seem to prefer a washed rind exclusively, and I must say I tend to agree with them (ok, so I admit it, I am German Swiss). Some of the washes, however, can get quite spectacular. Some cheeses, such as Appenzeller, typically use a brewed herbal wash to add flavor to the cheese. Others, such as Amsoldinger, use a rubbing of herbs and spices on the outside of the cheese which build up a hard film over time.

Some washers use salt water, other rub the cheese by hand with a handful of dry salt. Some do the same with other spices. Some brew the spices into a kind of tea and use that, together with white wine, to wash and flavor the cheese.

I used to use a simple salt wash, but found it was very difficult to keep mold at bay with that. Now I use wine in everything (which is nice, because the alcohol preserves the wash, letting me keep it on the shelf with my cheese for a very long time.) I've begun to experiment with some herbs and spices in liquid form, maybe someday when I have a few wheels of Mutschli on the shelf, I'll try a salt and spice rub and see how that goes.

So what tricks do you all have up your sleeves?
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Tiarella on October 25, 2012, 04:03:16 AM
I liked reading about using some white wine in the salty water wash.  I think I'll try that.  I have been curious about honey as a coating for cheese and am trying a Caerphilly with honey and leaves on it.  (photo attached)  I'm also curious after reading your post......I wonder whether I could use some essential oils of spices in my washes.  Or perhaps I'd have to add the oil to a salt scrub to be followed by a wash.  I don't know enough about different alcohol options that might offer a warm, spicy flavor addition.  Any ideas?  I'm also curious about what I could use as a wash for small cheeses that would then be wrapped in leaves.  The wash would need to prevent unwanted molds while perhaps adding some interesting flavors.   Hmmmmm.  I'm glad you started this thread.  I hope lots of folks who know more than I will post some of their experiences with washes.
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Alpkäserei on October 25, 2012, 04:34:41 AM
honey by itself to me seems like you will probably have mold problems. So you might need to watch that.

Don't know about using oils. I suppose you could, but why not just boil herbs and make a tea to use with the wash?
Sometimes Appenzell cheesemakers use a spiced hard apple cider to wash the cheese, or so they say (you never no what those funny little Appenzellers are up to) This I think would give a warm spiciness. Beyond that, my knowledge of alcohol is not big enough to say any more. But I would think that apple cider would work well with leaf wraps.

One more thing, I imagine wrapping with leaves can be done in much the same way as applying a paper label to a cheese. When you wash the rind, it creates a sticky paste of cheese parts and bacteria. You can rub an established rind with a little wash to make it sticky, and whatever you want to stick will go right on it and stay there, stuck by the glue you just made (it's really a protein glue)

You use this to your advantage also when rubbing the cheese with herbs. After the cheese is washed and all gooey, you just take your mixture of dried herbs and generously massage them into the surface of the cheese all over. If you've got good rind development, the paste should be able to hold a good deal of herbs on. I have seen some nice cheeses in Switzerland with an attractive herb rub all over. You can get it so that the entire cheese is coated with the herbs so that you can no longer see the actual rind any more. These herbs will slowly release their flavor into the cheese during the aging period.

If you do this though, you need to first wash the cheese for a few days to get your b.linens (or whatever else you might use) established so that mold will not grow under your herbs/leaves and so that there is a strong enough paste to hold whatever you put on it. Also, if the rind is still wet then your herbs will penetrate their flavor into the cheese more easily.

Regarding those leaves, unless the cheese is to be cut open very soon, do realize that they will leach flavor and color into the cheese.
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Tiarella on October 26, 2012, 02:07:27 AM
Thank you, Alp.  Yes, I know the leaves may/will leach flavor into the cheese but they are lightly scented only and do not have much flavor.  I will see what they create although it'll be a while before it's ready.  I'm not sure how I'll address it if molds and yeasts show up and need treating.  Maybe more honey wash, maybe a honey/salt wash.  Maybe some other molds.  I love see what others are experiementing with.  I did a washed curd cheese with Belgian White ale last night and the curds smelled SO good when I was hooping it.  I just wanted to keep smelling it for hours!  I hope it tastes good.  I need to go read up on how to age it well.  It's been brined and patted dry so I better go read what should happen next with temperature, humidity, etc.
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Boofer on October 26, 2012, 05:45:32 AM
I'm very intrigued with the washed rind process/art and rind treatments in general. It's absolutely fascinating what you can do to cheese by applying a wash or a particular culture to the rind. I'm learning as I delve into what works and what may not.

I just finished a simple Port Salut (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10324.0.html) that I washed with Vouvray wine and salt. I'm currently working on my Fancy (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10190.0.html) using my own raspberry liqueur (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9973.0.html). And I've also washed a cheese (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,6864.msg49564.html#msg49564) with Moscato wine. Enticing flavor.

I wonder if any of the wide variety of herbal teas would offer a pleasing effusion to use as a wash? Possibly teamed up with a nice white wine.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Mighty Mouse on October 26, 2012, 06:21:46 AM
Last time I was up in Monterey, I visited the aquarium. They were having a fundraiser event whose theme was gormet food (Alton Brown was actually there doing a talk on cooking- tickets were like $200 some odd dollars. In hindsight, I really wish I had coughed up the money but we had our 1 year old daughter with us, don't think she would have liked that...). Anyway, there was a local cheesemaker there that had the most beautiful washed rind gouda I have ever seen. The flavor was absolutely amazing and the rind looked fantastic. I really wish I could remember the name of the creamery. All I recall was him telling me that he got his start at the Cal Poly Artisan Cheesemaking Course (which I really hope to do this year...).
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Tiarella on October 26, 2012, 10:27:31 AM
I'm very intrigued with the washed rind process/art and rind treatments in general. It's absolutely fascinating what you can do to cheese by applying a wash or a particular culture to the rind. I'm learning as I delve into what works and what may not.

I just finished a simple Port Salut ([url]http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10324.0.html[/url]) that I washed with Vouvray wine and salt. I'm currently working on my Fancy ([url]http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10190.0.html[/url]) using my own raspberry liqueur ([url]http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9973.0.html[/url]). And I've also washed a cheese ([url]http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,6864.msg49564.html#msg49564[/url]) with Moscato wine. Enticing flavor.

I wonder if any of the wide variety of herbal teas would offer a pleasing effusion to use as a wash? Possibly teamed up with a nice white wine.

-Boofer-



I did a Drunkan Goat 2 weeks ago or so but had a wine fridge failure and got a fair amount of those wild blues on it.  At first I was following directions to just pat it down but that didn't work well enough.  Last night I washed it thoroughly like you did  with one of your cheeses and put it back into a pot of port.  I didn't put salt in it  (and NOT because I was going to drink the port afterwards!   :P ) because the recipe didn't call for that but now I wonder if I should have. 

I too am curious about all kinds of rind treatments and the two areas I have the most focus on are 1) how to keep my rinds clean of mold when I want that and 2) what neato cool things I can do to make incredible cheeses that DO have natural rinds or intriguing rind finishes.  I'm still struggling with keeping mold away.  I quake at the task of keeping all molds away since I know they are floating everywhere and that every time I open the door of my wine fridge I'm letting in fresh air full of more airborne divisions of molds, yeasts and more, Oh My!  I've been assuming that it's like keeping a body healthy; less about avoiding possible contaminations and more about creating the bio-terrain that is inhospitable to the growth of all the pioneering micro-organisms floating around.  Learning the best way to keep it inhospitable is a learning process.  I get it that salt and pH are important in the process and am still looking for other things.  Oh, and olive oil rubs, patting down molds, brushing, washing and patting dry when overwhelmed, etc. 

To get some very cool rind treatments that avoid molds AND add to the flavor seems the best of both worlds.
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: hoeklijn on October 26, 2012, 11:00:10 AM
At the moment I'm working on my first Reblochons, which are simply washed with water, salt and a bit of BL. The effect of the washing is also influenced by the Geo of course.
Since I'm a big fan of Epoisses I will try something like that using a wash with Grappa or Marc de Bourgogne. And also a pressed cheese washed with Chimay (a brown Belgium trappist beer) is on my wish/wash list.
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Tiarella on October 26, 2012, 11:07:13 AM
Herman, have you done washed curd cheeses?  That's the style of ale one I did.  I haven't done much with washed rind cheeses yet but aspire to that sometime.   :)
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Boofer on October 26, 2012, 01:30:16 PM
And also a pressed cheese washed with Chimay (a brown Belgium trappist beer) is on my wish/wash list.
I've been thinking about a Chimay-washed candidate also. I'd have to get two bottles though. One for the wash and one to inspire the cheesemaker. ;)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Alpkäserei on October 26, 2012, 04:07:45 PM
careful about that inspiration, you might get a little too 'inspired'

I am particularly intrigued by herb washed cheeses, that is the ones actually rubbed down with dried herbs and given a coating of such. This is an interesting idea -likely related to the practice of packing meets and rubbing them down with herbs and spices to prevent spoilage.

We make in addition to our hard, long aged alpine cheese a Raclette style cheese which is washed curd and short aged (up to 4 mo) I've been thinking about different concoctions to use for the wash instead of water -such as herb mixes, wines, and the idea occurred to me to use some diluted hard apple cider (hard because you don't want all that sugar, and diluted because alcohol can stunt the culture). This one would be good to make a few of in the middle of the summer, and sell in the fall or early winter.

Also been thinking along the same lines for the brining stage -brining a cheese in a more flavorful mixture than the plain saltwater we normally use. This would be a good candidate for Mutschli, which is a younger, softer alpine cheese we make that is aged only a few months.

I even thought about washing a cheese with the juice drained off of sauerkraut. But this would probably lead to major yeast troubles, as sauerkraut is fermented by a combination of wild yeasts and bacteria that are naturally present in and on the cabbage.

We make our own wines at home, usually of local wild fruits. Such homemade brews would be great to mix in with out cheeses and create a uniquely local product.

We can also derive washes and brines from a few other wild plants, such as rose hips, apples blossoms and leaves, and a wide variety of wild herbs.
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: hoeklijn on October 26, 2012, 06:41:21 PM
careful about that inspiration, you might get a little too 'inspired'
Seeing Boofer's liquor I'm not afraid one bottle of Chimay will be a problem...
Herman, have you done washed curd cheeses?
euhh, yes, Gouda. Just kidding, I know what you mean. No, not yet with curds washed in ale or something else. Have read also about somebody who had soaked 1/3 in whiskey, 1/3 in ale and kept 1/3 just in the whey. Moulded first a layer of the whiskey, above the layer with the normal curd and finished with the ale curd. And then pressed it. Seems like an amazing experiment to do...
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Mighty Mouse on October 27, 2012, 07:44:47 PM
He he he.... curds washed in Jägermeister.... That would be interested (probably nasty...).
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Tiarella on October 28, 2012, 01:08:01 AM
careful about that inspiration, you might get a little too 'inspired'
Seeing Boofer's liquor I'm not afraid one bottle of Chimay will be a problem...
Herman, have you done washed curd cheeses?
euhh, yes, Gouda. Just kidding, I know what you mean. No, not yet with curds washed in ale or something else. Have read also about somebody who had soaked 1/3 in whiskey, 1/3 in ale and kept 1/3 just in the whey. Moulded first a layer of the whiskey, above the layer with the normal curd and finished with the ale curd. And then pressed it. Seems like an amazing experiment to do...

Hmmm, that sounds interesting!  I think I'll stick to one at a time.  I do encourage you to do a washed curd with some ale or something in it.  I swear they could bottle the smell of the curds as the most wonderful perfume in the world!  I want to make another one so I stood for ages in front of the single bottles of ale at the food coop......looking at labels, wondering, having NO clue how to choose, etc.  I was going to choose by the pretty labels.....   ;D  Then I found one on sale that seemed like a nice flavor option.  I have to make cheese again tomorrow after I finish planting garlic and preparing for the massive storm.....or whatever it turns out to be.  Maybe I'll do washed curd again with the ale.  Or try it with some wine I bought for a drunkan goat....if I wash the curd with that it'll create a marbled wine pattern of curd borders when the finished cheese is cut open.
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: hoeklijn on October 29, 2012, 11:36:52 AM
Well Tiarella, I wish you all the best with the storm, what I see here on the news and the internet sounds scary... And I'm absolutely going to try a Chimay one of these days, weeks, months....
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Tiarella on October 29, 2012, 04:50:31 PM
Thank you for your storm wishes, Herman!  I think we'll be okay here.  We do have trees close enough to hit the house if they fall just the right way but the wind is going a different direction.  I'll attach a photo of the view out our kitchen window a couple of days ago.
 
A question for you:  how do you keep your cheeses mold-free.  I think it was you who made a really great and beautiful Vaca de Vino  (maybe I spelled that wrong?) and it was PERFECT looking!  I don't want to wax this cheese  (I have beeswax only)  because I don't want mold to regrow under the wax.  I'd like to keep it mold free......some wild blues got to it and I tried patting it down and rubbing it but it wasn't working.  I finally did a complete wash over the sink and if I remember correctly I finally oiled it with olive oil in desperation.  What do YOU do? 
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Alpkäserei on October 30, 2012, 08:52:05 PM
I'm not the one you asked the question but,

I would wash the cheese with alcohol. ya, I'm all about alcohol with my cheeses I know (don't hardly ever drink any, so I need to use it for something)  :P

One thought I had, for a future honey cheese, might you consider instead of using straight honey to use mead? Mead is fermented honey, after all.

Rubbing the cheese with something with a mild alcohol content will kill just about anything growing on it (except, apparently, b. linens and geo)

My whole washing approach is to wash the cheese surface with something that will more or less disinfect the surface, and kill off anything but what I want to grow (b. linens) and maybe add some flavor tones while I am at it. The theory here is actually kind of like pickling -you could say I am almost pickling my cheese. With pickling, you suspend the food in a solution that is inhospitable to all but a few select organisms, and those organisms that survive are the ones that grow and preserve the food (the vinegar doesn't do anything to preserve the food, pickling is actually a fermentation process)

I have been toying around with the idea of washes that will encourage other native organisms and discourage the ones I don't want. I'd like to find a wash practice that lets white mold grow but won't let blue (because I would like to make molded surface cheeses without introducing a mold culture, just work with what is wild) unfortunately the only things I have found that do this also encourage yeast, which I don't want. But I don't know a whole lot about getting mold to grow, just how to stop it.
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Tiarella on October 30, 2012, 09:44:31 PM
I coated my honey/leaf cheese with olive oil after a few days.  I think I've done olive oil twice on it now.  I am just going to muddle through it and see what I can do with it.  I don't want to ruin the leaves and whatever impact they create.  I like the idea though of using alcohol for washes to keep mold off.  I didn't have much luck with salt/vinegar/water washes and I buy brandy by the case as preservative for my flower essences so I always have it around.  How often do you wash.......
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Alpkäserei on October 30, 2012, 10:02:51 PM
I wash daily for 10 days, then once or twice a week for a few months, then not at all.

The first 10 days is to harden and preserve the rind so that it can dry out without cracking, as well as to condition it against the growth of mold.

The weakly washings after this are light maintenance to keep molds off while it is drying out.

After the washing cycle is over, the rind should be an inhospitable place for mold to grow and you should not have to worry about it.

During the first washing stage, you should get a slimy, pasty cheese that's really kind of nasty if you are not used to it. Here B. linens are developing, and the paste is serving to seal off the inside of the cheese from the rest of the world.

After the washing is over and done with, you might eventually get some geo dusting going on. This all depends on your environment. I don't know of any way to stop geo once it gets started, but I really wouldn't fret it personally.

The leaves, however, throw me for a bit of a loop. I Can't say exactly how they will act with washing, but I am just assuming they will act just about like an herb rub.

Another thing you could try is a dry salt rub. Just take some pure salt (like canning salt) and rub it all over with your hands very thoroughly, and then take a brush and brush it well in the surface. This will pretty pretty hard on anything trying to live on the surface. Some Alpkäse is made like this, rubbing with salt and then rubbing with some b. linens. instead of washing with the wine brine.
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Tiarella on October 31, 2012, 01:18:27 AM
Hmmm.  That is a lot of useful things to think about, thank you.  So how does the first series of washings harden the rind ifnit's creating a kind of nasty, slippery mess?   :-\   Or does the hardening start once there is more drying time after the first series of washes?  Have you tried a nut flavored Liquer?  Or is fruit usually best in your opinion?
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Alpkäserei on October 31, 2012, 02:07:12 AM
I am after fruity or herbal flavors. No need to add nuttiness, as my cheeses have that flavor naturally. Although a hazelnut Raclette could have a certain appeal...

It's kind of hard to explain how the first washing works, you just have to do it and you will see. A slime forms on the surface, but at the same time the rind underneath is developing as it absorbs salt and herbs and as the b. linens do their work. It seems to me that the cream doesn't really dry off as much as it is absorbed back into the cheese.

What is really nice is during the aging period when the rind really develops in its more or less dry state and turns a wonderful deep golden brown color (or deep orange, depending on what you wash it with) An aged loaf with a mature washed rind is to me the best looking cheese there is.
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: AndreasMergner on November 21, 2012, 02:05:54 AM
Can anyone tell me what they are using to wash with?  Cheesecloth, a brush?  Do you throw away the cheesecloth or clean it?  I wish I could just use paper towel, but that leaves paper fibers.  I was just spraying on the wash and now I realize that was the wrong technique since it is called "washing" and not "glazing" or whatever I was doing.  ;)

Any tips would be appreciated!
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: H-K-J on November 21, 2012, 02:33:49 AM
A very soft brush, check out Alp's recommendations, very informative
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Boofer on November 21, 2012, 10:31:23 PM
Can anyone tell me what they are using to wash with?  Cheesecloth, a brush?  Do you throw away the cheesecloth or clean it?  I wish I could just use paper towel, but that leaves paper fibers.  I was just spraying on the wash and now I realize that was the wrong technique since it is called "washing" and not "glazing" or whatever I was doing.  ;)

Any tips would be appreciated!
Here's what (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9667.msg71347.html#msg71347) member anutcanfly steered me to. Cosmetic wipes. They work well and don't shed. Before that, I was using 2" x 2" gauze pads (as in bandages). The wipe is thrown away after use.

If I have a lot of actual cleaning to do, I'll use a soft, dedicated (only used for cheese) brush. I keep the brush, but wash it. ;)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: AndreasMergner on November 22, 2012, 12:03:52 AM
H-K-J: I went back and he does mention the soft brush, but it wasn't too obvious for me.  ;)  I will pick up one along with a harder brush and some cosmetic wipes.  I can see the need for all three depending on whether developing a "Schmier", doing chemical warfare with mold, or just straight out going nuclear on it.  ;)

Boofer: Thanks, you are a fountain of info.  Love your cheeses! 
Title: Re: So What's in the Wash?
Post by: Tiarella on November 22, 2012, 02:49:32 AM
Andreas,  I got a dozen of these surgical brushes.  They have soft bristles and I think you can boil them to sterilize.  Good for washing hands before cheese making too!  I also have a stiff bamboo bristle brush that I use on cheeses that I want to dry brush to rid of mold.