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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Blue Mold (Penicillium roqueforti) Ripened => Topic started by: Flound on March 25, 2014, 09:40:00 PM

Title: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Flound on March 25, 2014, 09:40:00 PM
...they're about making delicious cheese.

With that in mind, I've embarked on my first Stilton-esque, co-opted from the good Dr. Hamm's adaption of Pav's make.

Stilton(esque) 1 - 14/03/24

12L Farmers Homo 3.25% M.F.
500ml Farmers Blend Cream 10% M.F.
2.3ml CaCl in 60ml solution
2.6ml single strength calf rennet in 60ml solution
4 cubes mesophilic Arom B
Blue mold from castello blue cheese

10:30 milk, cream, ice cubes put into double boiler, warming to room temperature. Temp 11.4C
11:10 temp 15.2C pH 6.9
11:20 temp 15.6C pH 6.9
11:27 added CaCl solution, drop of milk went in by oopsie. Temp 16.4C
12:08 temp 19.0C heating until 30.0C pH 6.8
12:38 temp 23.0C pH 6.8
12:54 temp 26.4C pH 6.7
13:30 temp 30.0C pH 6.7 blue mold added
13:55 temp 30.8C pH 6.7
14:43 temp 31.0C pH 6.6
15:08 temp 34.0C ??? Not sure on temp spike, pH 6.5, still dropping. Edit, burner got turned on low setting. Cooled bath from 38C to manageable 32C, oooops.
15:44 temp 33.5C pH 6.5 flickered to 6.4, adding rennet solution. Floc time started 15:45ish
15:57 floc at 11:30m 4x floc multiplier - cut curd at 16:32 - temp 33.4C
16:32 cut curd into 2.5cm, finished at 16:37, started stirring temp 32.6C
17:06 started 30 mins occasional stir temp 32.4C
17:13 stirred temp 32.2C
17:36 poured off whey, transferred to lined colander, will let drain/build up acidity over night.
17:58 finished above process, heating whey for ricotta.

I'm excited for this one....blues are one of most favourite cheeses, especially with steak.
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: JeffHamm on March 26, 2014, 12:52:19 AM
Very cool Flound!  I've not tried making ricotta from a blue.  You might want to use it up very quickly.  But then, maybe blue ricotta will be a great discovery?  Anyway, check out H-J-K's threads on his blue makes.  Do the smoothing as soon as you see blue mould developing.  I've found (in my two makes) that if you only smooth after the 5 days, if the blue mould has gone into overdrive it doesn't smooth well, and the mould gets too far ahead of the rest of the cheese.  So, check daily, when you see blue mould smooth it, and that will slow the blue mould progression to keep things on the proper time schedule. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Flound on March 26, 2014, 01:00:30 AM
Its funny you mentioned the ricotta. Bill, formerly of Fred fame, wanted to bring some to her co-worker, who loves my ricotta.

She seem surprised when I said it might not be a good idea.

"It's not that I don't want her to have any, but this is ricotta made from a type of blue cheese. I'm not sure if 92C is gonna kill the Penicillium roqueforti or turn it into Super Bacteria, but perhaps Barb might not be the guinea pig on this one. Besides, she might not like her ricotta spouting mould after two days." (I used p. roqueforti in the statement, all pontificatey cheese like)


Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: JeffHamm on March 26, 2014, 01:02:51 AM
Yah, it might kill it off, but I'm not sure.  And P.Roc. is a mould, not a bacteria, so it would be a super mould rather than a super bacteria.  B.Linens is a bacteria.  It doesn't need any more super powers though. :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Flound on March 26, 2014, 01:08:49 AM
Pfft, Bill's never gonna know.

She was swooning with desire when penicillium roqueforti rolled off my tongue.
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Flound on March 26, 2014, 01:57:27 PM
Back at it this morning! Gotta love blizzard, stay at home days....

9:45 roughly 16hrs draining overnight, milled into smaller pieces, about 0.75-1.0cm, but some pieces smaller.
10:00 packed into mould, no pressing, first of four 15 minute flips, placed egg crate above warm water in pot (38C)
10:16 flipped, inverted mould on top of follower.
10:30 flipped, follower on top, no weight
10:45 flipped, inverted mould on top of follower. Weight 1490g

Just about to start a series of four 30 minute flips at the eleventh hour.
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Matthewcraig on March 26, 2014, 03:54:57 PM
Looking good some really nice crevasis in there should produce some nice blue veins, may I ask how big the mould is that you used :)
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Flound on March 26, 2014, 06:44:09 PM
Looking good some really nice crevasis in there should produce some nice blue veins, may I ask how big the mould is that you used :)

It would be a 7.5" Tomme.
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: JeffHamm on March 26, 2014, 09:25:42 PM
That's looking good! 

- Jeff
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Flound on March 26, 2014, 10:14:45 PM
That's looking good! 

- Jeff
You are my greatest inspiration, my friend. Indeed, your example has served a noble purpose.
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Al Lewis on March 26, 2014, 10:49:24 PM
That's one good looking blue you have there.  Great job! :D
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Flound on March 30, 2014, 01:00:21 PM
So it's been almost exactly four days of being in the mould, and Viola, bless her heart, there were traces of blue mould stating to grow.

Into a freshly sanitized ripening box, and into the cave. I'm assuming there's far too little growth to start smoothing.

I'm tickled blue.

Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: H-K-J on March 30, 2014, 02:38:13 PM
Yup wait till tomorrow, the blue on my latest Stilton (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,12574.0.html) wasn't there at all on day 4 but on day 5 BOOM!! there it was  :P
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Flound on March 30, 2014, 04:27:44 PM
Yup wait till tomorrow, the blue on my latest Stilton ([url]http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,12574.0.html[/url]) wasn't there at all on day 4 but on day 5 BOOM!! there it was  :P


It'll be as Captain Blue of the H.K.J.S. Roqueforti commands. Tomorrow we look for more blue sign.

Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: JeffHamm on March 30, 2014, 05:04:30 PM
Yah, it can come on fast and furious, so keep an eye on it.  The blue will still develop a bit inside when you smooth, then when you pierce it will flourish.  The thing is you want the timing to be right, and too blue too soon is not the ideal.  You need the paste and curds to do some maturing first, then you want the blue to kick in later to evolve it into luxury.  This looks like a good make, so I think you'll be very pleased with the end result.

- Jeff
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Flound on March 31, 2014, 07:58:41 PM
Okay, here's today's growth.

To smooth or not to smooth, that is the question;

Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: GlabrousD on April 01, 2014, 03:53:53 AM
That cheese is looking great Flound!

Cheers, GD.
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: JeffHamm on April 01, 2014, 05:22:55 AM
Hi Flound,

My inclination is to say smooth now.  The blue on the inside will slow down, but re-start once you pierce.  You won't "kill it" (it's blue mould for Pete's sake, it grows everywhere when you don't even try).  The outside sometimes will stall, for some reason, but it will be fine.  And slower development will give you a better result in the end. 

-Jeff
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: H-K-J on April 01, 2014, 01:55:53 PM
I am with you Jeff, smooth it now if the blue you have is anything like what I used this last time, it is gonna get real scary soon enough. :o
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Flound on April 01, 2014, 02:53:38 PM
Ask and ye shall receive...

It advanced in blueness whilst the hours ticked away, so I took the first opportunity to smooth.

First two pictures are pre-smooth; the rest post-smooth. I did notice it had developed a wee bit of rind. Next make, I'm going to make sure it's kept at higher humidity while in the mold.
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Scott Wallen on April 01, 2014, 05:34:42 PM
I have cheese envy....great looking cheese!
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: JeffHamm on April 02, 2014, 01:59:32 AM
Yah, that's looking really good.  Pierce it, top to bottom and through the sides, in 2 weeks.  Then, again 2 weeks after that (through the same holes if possible).  The piercing let's the oxygen back into the centre, which will get the internal blue going again.  The holes often plug up, hence the re-pierce later.  You want the paste to develop at this stage, in a couple weeks you want the blue to kick in and do it's thing.

Make sure you take this out for 30 minutes each day to breath.  Also, put the cheese on the cover of the ripening box, and then put the box on top like a lid.  That way, when you prop it open a bit the opening is along the bottom of the container.  Ammonia is heavier than air, so if the cheese produces some (and it will) it won't settle around your cheese but "fall away".  If the cheese starts to produce an ammonia smell, air it out a bit more, and lower the humidity. 

You're now entering the tricky phase of mouldy cheese production.  You need to monitor how it's going and adjust things to correct any deviations.  That, my friend, is where experience comes in, so just try things, write them down (and write down why you did it) and then later write down if it worked (being vague here on purpose as it's a general strategy).  Anyway, ask lots of questions here if you're unsure as there are some very experienced blue cheese makers here who will have some good advice.  Mine is, you are probably better to cut earlier, around 30 days, rather than try and take it out to 90 days.  The form factor is short and wide, and stiltons are usually tall and thin, but also much heavier.  Aging the full duration will overdo it for the smaller size.  And, if you are a bit early, you can age it longer, but it's harder going the other way.

- Jeff
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Matthewcraig on April 05, 2014, 04:35:10 PM
wow that looks great, wish i could get a blue looking like that
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Flound on April 07, 2014, 12:48:12 PM
Alright, April 7th. Six days after the smooth...

Okay, noticeable ammonia smell, granted you have to get nose to cheese so it's not strong, but there all the same.

I gotta say, this is a make that has 'Tude. It's like ornery cheese - all smelly and ugly looking. ;)

Which is my way of saying, is this normal for a blue?
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: H-K-J on April 07, 2014, 01:49:53 PM
Quote
Which is my way of saying, is this normal for a blue?
YUP, scary ain't they :o
The smell is normal as long as the ammonia aroma doesn't get to unpleasant.
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: JeffHamm on April 07, 2014, 06:35:34 PM
Take it out to air, 30 minutes a day.  Put it on the lid of the ripening box and use the box as the "lid" (like a cake display plate).  Amonia is heavier than air, so if you leave the "box cum lid a jar" then you won't get any build up around the cheese, which can produce off flavours (unless you like amonia of course).  I think its the white moulds that produce the amonia. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Flound on April 07, 2014, 06:52:52 PM
You're repeating yourself, Jeff. You've said all those things three posts up and a week ago. ;)

Seriously, all those things have been done since it's been smoothed which is why, if you look at the pictures, you'll see the cheese sitting on its lid. I listen....lol.

As mentioned, the ammonia isn't strong...you literally pretty much have to put nose on the cheese to get it. I fully expected some smell, as everyone seems to mention it as a byproduct.

Frankly, it looks less hideous than others and I'm wondering if my monster is proceeding apace or is developing too nice of a personality.
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: JeffHamm on April 07, 2014, 11:14:11 PM
I say everything three times, that's right, three times, I say everything three times.

- Jeff
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Flound on April 07, 2014, 11:51:26 PM
'Gimp' Calhoun Tubbs is very cross with you...
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: GlabrousD on April 08, 2014, 10:54:41 AM
A slight amonia smell would be an advantage with my current Stilton.

The FLW announced at various times last night:

A glass of wine soon distracted her - like me she's a person of simple pleasures :)

Cheers, GD.
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Flound on April 10, 2014, 10:59:21 AM
Piercing day!!!

Admittedly, I was kinda scared to touch it. I had vision of a cheese paste hand popping out of the wheel, grabbing me by the throat and hauling me into Dante's blue inferno.

Tasted the paste....young but promising.

Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Matthewcraig on April 10, 2014, 11:38:39 AM
great looking blue there a cheese for you!
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Flound on April 13, 2014, 11:28:35 AM
6 days after piercing...

Bill still hasn't asked me to move out. Bless her heart, she's a remarkable woman.


Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: Flound on May 06, 2014, 07:15:55 PM
FAIL!

Did the second piercing two weeks after the first, then opened it a week after that.

No blue veins. B linens veins. Interior ammonia and runny in spots. In other places, very Stiltonesque, but without PR.

Dustbin.
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: JeffHamm on May 06, 2014, 08:31:56 PM
That's a shame.  My first stiltonesque went in the bin as well (also ammoniated, but I had plenty of blue mould development).  Hmmm, in the semi-lactic boards there's a thread on a semi-lactic blue I made a few years ago.  It turned out very nice, and it's a small, 2 litre make.  Might be worth trying something like that for a bit until you get the blue mould working for you.  Everything else about the make looks fine, just your PR development never took off.  It seems when you don't want blue, it's everywhere, but just try and make it grow when you want, and it's nowhere to be seen. 

You'll get it though. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: The Blues ain't about feeling bad....
Post by: GlabrousD on May 07, 2014, 06:41:16 AM
Really sorry to hear that Flound - my sympathy.

Cheers, GD.