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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Washed Rind & Smear Ripened => Topic started by: sheepj76 on March 14, 2013, 03:53:56 PM

Title: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: sheepj76 on March 14, 2013, 03:53:56 PM
Alright, I'm trying to make a Epoisses style cheese. I will be using 20 gal of milk in a large vat so hopefully everything goes well.
The cultures I'm using are:

MM100
PLA
B. linens

I plan on putting some B. linens in the brine as well to hopefully get that nice orange rind and I will be washing the cheese with a cognac after the initial washes/brine. Anyone have any pros/cons if using PLA in the initial innoculation instead of just using GEO and applying the PLA later in a spray?

Pictures coming soon.
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: mgasparotto on March 15, 2013, 04:30:07 PM
Exciting! Very interested to hear how yours come out!
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: bbracken677 on March 15, 2013, 04:45:06 PM


I plan on putting some B. linens in the brine as well to hopefully get that nice orange rind and I will be washing the cheese with a cognac after the initial washes/brine. Anyone have any pros/cons if using PLA in the initial innoculation instead of just using GEO and applying the PLA later in a spray?

Pictures coming soon.

I believe you can go either way with it. Either initial innoculation or by applying later.
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: mgasparotto on March 15, 2013, 10:55:38 PM
I applied PLA as a spray and Al added his PLA directly. We ended up with very different coloring - his linens are much darker than mine were. I don't know if the method made the difference, though.
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: sheepj76 on March 16, 2013, 12:51:32 AM
I applied PLA as a spray and Al added his PLA directly. We ended up with very different coloring - his linens are much darker than mine were. I don't know if the method made the difference, though.

Verrrrry Interestingggggg. The type of B. linens can cause big differences in color from what I understand. Do you know if the linens were the same type in your PLA?
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: Boofer on March 16, 2013, 02:21:09 PM
20 gal of milk
Really?! :o

Is that a typo? That can't be right. ???

Have you made this cheese previously? I would venture to guess a "no", given the questions you've asked. A trial run might use one or two gallons. At any rate, that would make a lot of curd. ::)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: Al Lewis on March 16, 2013, 03:52:43 PM
20 gal of milk
Really?! :o

Is that a typo? That can't be right. ???

Have you made this cheese previously? I would venture to guess a "no", given the questions you've asked. A trial run might use one or two gallons. At any rate, that would make a lot of curd. ::)

-Boofer-

These are typically the size of a Brie.  Hoping that was meant to say 2 gallons or, he has a lot of molds.
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: sheepj76 on March 16, 2013, 04:32:58 PM
Ha a lot of molds is right. Work in a little commercial kitchen that specializes in tasty cheese. Just made a 20 gallon batch of  cam that turned out great so I figured I would experiment with another softy. We get milk directly from farm so its not as expensive of an experiment as you might think. A test batch still would have been a good idea but I'm pretty comfortable with large volume.
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: Al Lewis on March 16, 2013, 04:48:01 PM
Better have a liquor store next door also.  I used an entire bottle of Courvoisier VS on the four cheeses I did.  Most of that on the 3 little Epoisses.
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: sheepj76 on March 16, 2013, 06:05:07 PM
Better have a liquor store next door also.  I used an entire bottle of Courvoisier VS on the four cheeses I did.  Most of that on the 3 little Epoisses.
really? It soaks it up that much or did you avoid using the same liquid on more than one cheese? Usually I can wash up to 47 lil cams with about a gallon of solution.
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: Al Lewis on March 16, 2013, 06:40:28 PM
This one requires that you wash it with a cognac solution that is strengthened over time to a straight cognac. I used a small spray bottle and misted mine.

Quote
When flipping wipe the entire surface with brine (1 teaspoon salt to 1/2 cup boiled water)
After first week alternate washes with brine and a 50/50 mixture of cognac and water
At 3 weeks switch to straight cognac washing every 3 days
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: Boofer on March 16, 2013, 08:04:21 PM
Ha a lot of molds is right. Work in a little commercial kitchen that specializes in tasty cheese. Just made a 20 gallon batch of  cam that turned out great so I figured I would experiment with another softy. We get milk directly from farm so its not as expensive of an experiment as you might think. A test batch still would have been a good idea but I'm pretty comfortable with large volume.
More power to you. Good luck. ;)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: sheepj76 on March 21, 2013, 12:49:22 PM
I chose to spray the cheese with PLA and put a very small amount into the milk just to make sure. Today I will be washing the cheese for the second time in my B. Linens 3%brine.
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: JeffHamm on March 21, 2013, 07:16:28 PM
Photos!  We need photos!  No photos no proof, no proof no cheese, no cheese no cheese for you!! :)  Actually, I'm just really interested in these espoisse makes and want to see how they progress. 

- Jeff

Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: sheepj76 on March 22, 2013, 04:31:26 PM
Photos!  We need photos!  No photos no proof, no proof no cheese, no cheese no cheese for you!! :)  Actually, I'm just really interested in these espoisse makes and want to see how they progress. 

- Jeff

Haha I'll get some photos up tomorrow or sunday I need to bring a better camera with me my phone camera is pretty bad. They get there first cognac wash in 2 days!
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: sheepj76 on March 25, 2013, 04:35:08 PM
An update with pictures! finished up my PLA spray on the cheeses Saturday and left them out at 55 degrees until today.

Today I washed the cheeses with a 50/50 cognac 3% salt solution.

Before cognac . some good white surface growth. Not sure if you can see it in first picture.
I Used just a regular paint type brush to apply the cognac to one side of the cheese instead of both. I figure I will do every other day on one side so the wash doesn't drip off on the side facing down. The cheese is feeling soft on the sides so I plan to place them in a 45 degree ripening cave for a few weeks to have the inside catch up.






Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: mgasparotto on April 07, 2013, 10:47:13 PM
Very nice!
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: Jen R on April 09, 2013, 02:22:28 AM
Can anyone tell me what the pH should be for an Epoisse by the time draining has finished?
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: sheepj76 on April 11, 2013, 02:52:39 PM
Very nice!
Thank ya Thank ya. This cheese is ripening fast the sides are really really soft. I lost 3 rounds to blue mold growth in a little container that housed all three. On an unrelated noteI moved the cheeses to a colder ripening area hopefully these suckers start breaking down from the inside within the next week or so. I'm working on my last 75% cognac wash at this point. Does anyone know how one might go about getting that rich brown coloration? I added my linens to the initial inoculation but my cheese has remained fairly white. More pics to come.
Can anyone tell me what the pH should be for an Epoisse by the time draining has finished?
Sorry Jen, I did not take a pH reading after draining however, my guess is 5 - 5.5?? somewhere around there?? Take that with a grain of kosher non reactive salt.
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: iratherfly on April 15, 2013, 02:34:56 AM
Even though Epoisses is a lactic cheese, it is made faster than goat cheeses in order to trap the butterfat in the curd without it floating to the top.  The milk is therefore heated to 86°F where mesophilics work fast. It should then acidifies over 14-16 hours rather than 18-24. That should give you a final acidity of probably 4.7pH-4.9pH. Maybe even more acidic.

Sheepj76, looking good!  I would wash with Eau de Vie; if Marc is too expensive you can try Grappa or even Schnaps. Cognac is much more aromatic and flavorful, it will give you a different cheese (and oh, it's expensive too!).  the wash routine on Epoisses is very unique. You don't start with the Marc. You gradually introduce it to the wash over a period of two weeks or so; then hold back and let the growth finish naturally, brushing in brine as needed.

PLA is not a very good blend for it because it mimics Savoyard microflora and has totally different aromas, as well as very light color. I would guess that the morge should have faster, stronger color strain of B.linen like SR-3 (maybe mixed with LR), + a mould-like strain of Geo like 17 + and a yeast mix such as R2R + KL71.  It will make a huge difference and would look and smell totally different than PLA.
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: Brie on April 15, 2013, 03:55:54 AM
Hello my new and old friends--finally got around to making an Epoisses--tthe olfactory was almost too much for me--great cheese though..........
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: iratherfly on April 15, 2013, 05:17:41 PM
Brie! It's been such long time! How the heck are you?  Love that photo!
Title: Re: Epoisses 3/14/13
Post by: Brie on April 16, 2013, 01:33:57 AM
I'm great Yoav--and you? You've moved from a protegee to a cheesemaker to a cheesemonger! Triplet for you! I needed to take a break, based on supply/demand of milk. I love your posts and your endurance to help the community of cheese lovers! Namaste!