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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Blue Mold (Penicillium roqueforti) Ripened => Topic started by: Cartierusm on January 07, 2009, 03:51:46 AM
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Well my friends here we are again. Stilton...can I get a Booo YAAA. Ok, that was pathetic all I heard was Dave...Oh well Dave and I will eat Stilton until the cows come home, then make more becasue the cows came home.
I did things a little different this time. First off making bigger batches of a new cheese presents some difficulties as far as what to have on hand. I learned that the last time with the stilton. This time everything went according to plan.
I used milk that I bought a week ago, I know kind of old, but I don't care it was an experiment to get the curd firmer. The professionals I talked to this week said store bought milk degrades pretty rapidly because of the processing. I also used 3 cups of heavy cream that I've had for a couple of weeks. Yes I even threw in the kitchen sink. Nothing was expired mind you. Normal recipe for Stilton calls for 1 cup of light cream or half and half per gallon of milk. I used the heavy cream as a sub because I wanted to get rid of it before it went bad. So that part of the recipe changed. Oh and the cream was UHT.
Talking with Dave I decided to add a little extra Calcium Chloride. Instead of 5/8 tsp. per 5 gallons I put in 1 tsp. I also let it ripen 1 hour instead of the normal recipes of 30 minutes. The recipe I have now from Egon at Danlac says ripen 1 hour. And I trust him as he knows his cultures and that's what I'm using. I read somewhere once that Direct Vat cultures don't start working for 30 minutes anyway. So I'm increasing all my time by a little now. I knew this for a long time but figured that the person writing the book would have compensated, yeah right. Now I'm going on my information not somone elses. In a few years when I've eaten some of this cheese and I can compare PHs then I can go analytical.
I added the same amount of rennet as last time and let set 90 mintues as usually. I did get a better curd this time. The break in the center was just a hair better than last time, see post and pics, but when I make a break closer to the walls of vat the break was even better, almost good. Still a little residue, though. There were still bits of curds in it as in the other pics. But not bad. After I drained it I realized I probably should have let it set about 30-45 mintues more as the whey wasn't clear. The whey was definately milky, but that could be attributed to many things such as UHT cream, old milk or not enough setting time.
All in all for cheap and crappy ingredients I'm happy. I'll post some pics of the milky whey (no pun intended) and the curds when they're out of the press. I want to start making my bigger wheels I just don't have the drive to build a whole assembly to just cut the dam PVC. I called a few dairies and found out how they pasteurize and I'm going to try different store bought milks before trying Past Only and then Raw. The price double everytime you moove up a grade. $3.50 Local Past/Homo Milk per Gallon, $6.75 Past Only Local Milk 1 Gallon, Raw Fresh Local Milk (at Whole Foods) $14 a gallon.
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Here are some pics of the curds after they have been milled and salted. They are really crumbly and creamy almost as if the blue cheese were already mature. They look perfect. Not sure if it was the UHT cream, more Calcium or love, but it came out great.
The first pic is of the whey that I said was not clear but milky.
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Carter....
I honestly don't think that you could have gotten a more perfect Stilton curd. That really does look perfect.
Are you really using your 8" hard cheese mold for the Stilton??????
Man, do you realize how much cheese you are going to get out of that??????????????
I would be surprised if the curd shrinks much more than an inch (maybe two at the absolute most) so you are going to have one big honkin' head of some of the best cheese you've ever tasted.
The good news is that I've frozen some of my previous Stilton and it tastes perfect when it comes out of the freezer.
Unless you have a digestive tract made of steel, this will be information that is very useful to you. ;D
Honestly, that is going to be an impressive cheese. I can't wait to see some pics after it has aged some.
Now....
DON'T FORGET THE OLIVE OIL AND CRACKED PEPPER TRISCUITS!
Dave
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Hmmm...
I didn't put all of those little question mark frowny type guys in my post. Must be some sort of conspiracy.
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Carter, Likespace is right that is a big good look pile o' curd you have there :-*! You aced the first step, good luck with remained of your Stilton making and in 1 year you can have a great party!
Likesspace, Conspiracy Theory (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118883/) was a great movie but that wasn't it. You got?????? as you typed six ? in a row immediately after your text. Three in a row ? after a space is the forum code for a ??? Smiley button shown above the post edit area, so when you typed six ? I think the software got confused and displayed a single ? as immediately after text and then a ??? for the next 3 ? and then another ?? as they weren't code.
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???LOL ??? Yes the curds looks good but they are already creamy as a good blue should be. Which is good and bad I hope it firms up, I want my blue cheese to be creamy and my stiltons to be a little more of a crumbly blued cheddar, as opposed to a rubbery cheddar. Anyway. I'm going to be making 10" wheels next week. I don't mind having too much cheese. I either let it age and have 2 and 3 year old aged stiltons or cut them up and give them away. You know we have a huge homeless population here, they could be the best fed homeless anywhere.
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Here are some pics of the stilton after 4 days of draining and after I smoothed out the rind, which I'm getting pretty good at. At first it's hard your knocking curds out all over the place.
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Carter, looks great both cheese and embossing, you should be proud!
Hope you aren't going to use that long screwdriver in the picture as a needle to get air and blueing inside :o. I used one for the two blues I made, too big, cracked my first soft cheese (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,97.0.html).
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Hi Carter
Your cheese looks great - sure hope mine turns out like that - did you smooth with a hot knife?
In the past hour, I have put my stilton curds into a mould and am currently turning them every 15 minutes - they have a yeasty smell about them, and in fact looked a little like risen bread when I broke it up into small pieces prior to moulding. Is this as it should be, or have I made a boo-boo somewhere along the line?
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Bella every one's perception is different so don't just take my word for it, but that doesn't sound correct. Any way you can post a picture? It shouldn't have a yeasty smell and definitely shouldn't look like risen bread. But take it from me and others on here you've made it this far don't ever throw a cheese away by looks alone. Nothing in it, unless your raw milk was tainted from the cow, will hurt you and it may turn out to be the best tasting cheese ever. Just age it no matter what eat it and decide from there, but I'm not saying this about your cheese. I would have to see some pictures to make a better call.
As for smoothing out, it's one of those human learning things. At first you will knock curds loose from the edge and pull some up out of the wheel, but by the time you get to your second Stilton it will start to work better. This applies to the handling of the cheese too at first I was timid to handle it as it was so fragile but after your mind and body learn from handling it, it will go much easier.
Here is my procedure. I slide the cheese from the mold, my mold releases cheeses easy since the cheese is still wet it slides right out. I leave the follower on as way to move the cheese without damaging it by holding it. My follower has embossing on it and suctions itself to the cheese you follower may or may not, more than likely it will hold, just be careful so it doesn't slide off of the follower. I then use the follower as a plate and take a glass of warm/hot water and a large spoon. I dip the spoon in and rub the top, basically what I'm doing is dissolving the cheese with the wet and slight heat, not melting so I wouldn't use super hot water (plus the hot water might kill the Blue Mold). I use the edge of the spoon to burnish with a little water the edge of the cheese on the top, I work from the outside in. If you work the reverse you'll break the edge. You'll know when you need more water which is about every few seconds, not a ton of water but it needs to be slick, too much water won't hurt anything, it's better than too dry. When it gets too dry the cheese will stick to the spoon and you'll start to pull curds from the wheel. DON'T be afraid to touch the cheese, if a curd pulls loose push it back with a wet spoon or push it in with your fingers. Since you are basically dissolving the cheese surface and using it as Spackle to fill in the holes and cracks it will make the surface slightly uneven, there is no way around this but doesn't look bad.
So I start on the top and then work on the sides. The sides because they have been against a mold are a little more solid and you'll have to use more water to start the dissolving process, but just work your way around like you are decorating a cake.
When the sides and top are done I take a bamboo (sushi mat) mat and place in on top of the cheese. On that I stick a piece of plastic made out of cutting board material, Tap Plastics or any plastic place will sell it, make sure it's either cutting board material or food safe or a piece of wood. Make sure it's slightly bigger than the cheese. So place that on the mat and flip the cheese. Hold tight so it doesn't slip when flipping. Next pull off the follower and work on the top, now you're done. If you do buy or make the plastic board get a couple. I always have my cheese sitting on a bamboo mat and board or else when you go to flip the bamboo will fold up and crush the edges of the wheel.
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Carter..
Great description on how to smooth a Stilton. I've always used a knife but I think I'll try your spoon method on my next one. It sounds as if it will work great.
As for the piercing, I tried something different yesterday.
Before I used bamboo skewers which did work pretty well. The only problem is that the wood did put quite a bit of "drag" on the cheese when removing.
Well yesterday I was standing at the sink, getting ready to sterilize my bamboo skewer when I looked over and saw my long cheese thermometer.
Well I immediately realized that this thermometer was made of stainless steel and sure enough, it was the same diameter as the bamboo skewers. Well needless to say, instead of sterilizing the skewer, I sterilized the thermometer and gave it a try.
Now remember that I use 4" molds that are a little over 8" tall. I've now decided that these are too small of a diameter since I did put a crack in my cheese while skewering.
I have also decided that my biggest mistake was trying to skewer both the top and the sides of the cheese. There is really no reason to skewer the top (or bottom) since the side piercings will take care of these areas.
On my next one I will try piercing only the sides and see how it goes. As for using the thermometer as a skewer, it worked perfectly.
I was able to pinch the crack closed but it still really ticked me off to crack yet another one. Oh well, I'm learning as I go and this should still turn out to be a great cheese, even with this minor defect.
Also, check your private messages Carter. You made a sale. :-)
Looking forward to talking to you tomorrow, if possible.
Dave
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Dave are you wetting the SS with water that might help to lube it. The spoon gives me more control as a knife I'd have to concentrate on a large area.
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Sorry, Carter, I didn't take any pictures, but it sure is my intention to proceed to the finished product and see what happens. There will also be another stilton sometime down the track (hopefully sooner rather than later) and if the same thing happens, I will make sure I have my camera at the read. The milk isn't tainted, so that shouldn't be an issue.
Thanks for the great explanation of smoothing - I have copied that into a resource file for future reference. Great job!
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No problem.
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Honestly I didn't think of wetting the probe until after I saw the crack appear. I think that between wetting the needle and piercing only from the side I will see more success when it comes time to pierce the younger one.
I'll be able to let you know in another couple of weeks. :-)
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You can wet the needle piece until it gives resistence take it out, rewet it and go again.
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Good tips and ideas. On mine I just pushed the screwdriver in several times from top and then bottom and each time I had to hold my fingers around it otherwise it pulled out lots of material with it. My pressed blue was too moist thus stickier plus thicker screwdriver, no wonder I cracked :o my first blue cheese wheel when doing so :'(.
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Here are 2 High Quality Close Up pics on my new smoothed stilton.
http://www.smokeproductions.com/Stilton2.jpg
http://www.smokeproductions.com/Stilton3.jpg
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You know John, I think one of my biggest problems is the size of wheel I'm making. These things are only 4" diameter but are right at 8" tall. It doesn't give a lot of room for error when doing the piercing and since I've now cracked two out of two I think I'm missing that window. :-)
I've decided that my next Stilton will be done in a 6" diameter wheel while trying to keep the same 8" height. I think this will make a much more sturdy wheel that should resist cracking. Especially if I remember to follow all of the suggestions from this board.
Dave
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Likesspace - Dave
I just had a very nice dinner and cheese tasting with neighbors, will post in different board. Anyway we tried a store bought Danish Castello Brand Blue that was very, almost melt in mouth soft, and it was only about 4" diameter and had very thin pin holes around the circumference of varying depth for bluing the interior. Maybe the trick is tiny holes that don't displace much volume (like a deep penetrating perf charge does, sorry for oilpatch talk) and thus causes minimal stress on the very weak tensile strength cheese?
Note, cheese colours were not as pronounced as in photo.
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John, I'm disgusted...you served your neighbors STORE BOUGHT cheese?? LOL. :D
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Carter I think you asked in one of your posts about teflon knitting needles. You can purchase them from any ladies hardware store, like Joanne's etc. Not sure what stores are available to you over there. They come in different sizes and lengths, so you should be able to find something that suited. Was also thinking that you could use SS meat skewers. They also come in different lengths and thicknesses.
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Thanks I have a long SS thermometer, I'll just use that.
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Carter....I tried to figure out how to post this pic in a private message but didn't see a place to do so.
Here is the pic of the air tank, with regulator that I bought today.
I was going to use my shop tank but I didn't think my wife would be too pleased having that old thing in her kitchen. Besides, this new tank was pretty inexpensive and it's a nice cheese color. :-)
It's a five gallon tank with 1/4" NPT threads. From what you told me last night, I can simply unscrew the supplied air hose and screw your hose into it. I should then be set to go.
So, as promised, here it is:
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John,
First of all, that is a very nice looking blue cheese. I don't care if it is store bought, it looks delicious.
As for piercing, I think that if I continue to use a 4" wheel I'll have to find something that makes smaller holes.
If I do in fact move up to a 6" wheel as planned then I think my thermometer probe will work just fine.
Every once in awhile my wife will bring store bought cheese into the house. Each time she does, I make sure I tell my teenage daughters "your mom is cheating on me again". ;D
Thanks for the advice on using a smaller piercing needle. That might just be the answer for the other 4" Stilton I have aging. I'll let you know how it goes.
Dave
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Dave is that thing with the gauge on it and red knob actually a regular or just on and off? Test by filling up a tire or somthing and rotating the knob to see if the psi changes. Other than that it's perfect. What you'll be attaching is a 1/4" quick connect fitting, all very neat and tidy.
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Okay, after looking at this a little more closely I think you are right in assuming that it is nothing more than an on/off valve.
It does vary the amount of air exiting the tank, but it does not seem to regulate the pressure.
I did see an external regulator (Milton brand) at the store where I bought this tank. I think I'll check a couple of other places to see what is available. The Milton brand was $29.00 and I'm sure I can find something less expensive than that.
Thanks for catching this. I'll find the regulator I need so that I'm ready when the press arrives.
Thanks again.
Dave
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John, I'm disgusted...you served your neighbors STORE BOUGHT cheese?? LOL. :D
No ;D, I brought some of my Feta and Neufchatel, just posted pictures and story of this event here (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,750.0.html).
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Carter,
I don't know how this phot will turn out (snatched it from the web) but this is the regulator I looked at today. It is the Milton brand I mentioned earlier.
I made a mistake on the price. According to the web site it is only $20.00.
At least it's brass so it should hold up over the long run.
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You know Carter, after looking at this a little more closely it says it's an "air flow regulator w/gauge". Is this what I need? I mean when you get right down to it, the little red knob on my tank is an air flow regulator.
I'm getting more confused by the minute here.
Help me out! I want to be ready to go when the press gets here.
Thanks,
Dave
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Dave, you'll nee the one that you already have on the tank to be able to fill the tank (through the air valve like on a car tire) and you'll need the gauge to see what the PSI in the tank is, BUT you'll need a "pressure regulator" to actually control the pressure coming out. It will screw onto where you will remove the hose. You'll have to be creative with the tank and 1/4" Pipe fittings, so bring the tank (after you remove the hose) to the hardware store with you. Here is what you'll need, the pic you posted second is not a proper regulator and I couldn't blow it up enough to read it, here is what you need, it's like a regular regulator for an air compressor.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45009
you won't need the two side items they are a lubricator for air tools and a water filter to keep water out of the line. You don't need to order the one above, it's just an example. Here is a few more if you want to order one. But you probably can get a cheap one at Ace Hardware.
http://www.amazon.com/Campbell-Hausfeld%C2%AE-Mini-Pressure-Regulator/dp/B001A38KWG/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1231921521&sr=8-1
You can buy this one http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95439
or this one-
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100082550
Or if you want I can just but a cheap one and fit it to my portable tank which is about the same as yours and then you can just screw it on yours?
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Carter,
Let me check at another place today. Our local ACE hardware store is pretty small so might not be able to find one. If not, I would really appreciate you finding me one and then adding the price to the press.
I'll let you know tonight if I had any luck.
Oh, and I did a little looking on the web. At least I know what I'm looking for now.
Thanks a lot,
Dave
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Oh, and as for plumbing the regulator in, that's a piece of cake. I deal with pipe fittings on a daily basis. I just need to make sure I'm plumbing in the right thing. :-)
Btw, I think I've found one. I'm going to go get it later in the day and I'll post a pic tonight.
Dave
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Sounds good, that's right you left hand nut...LOL
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Carter...
Here's what I came up with today. I went ahead and purchased a heavy metal regulator since I hate using metal fittings in plastic. It always seems to fail eventually from the stress.
This one was quite a bit more expensive but I figure it will get a lot of use.
It's a Milton brand regulator and has 1/4" NPT inlet/outlet and two 1/8" NPT openings. One of the 1/8" holes I will plug and the other will accept a pressure gauge.
It is adjustable from 0-100 psi with a 250 lb. maxium pressure rating. I figure it should work just fine.
Anway, here's a pic. If you see anything wrong with it, let me know. Otherwise, I'd say I'm ready to go.
Thanks for the help with this.
Dave
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Dave you are correct, that will work fine. I try to keep all presses I make to use cylinder that only require 100 psi at the most. Make sure you look at the regulator there should be arrows to show the flow of the air.
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Carter,
Thanks for the tip on the air flow arrows. I hadn't thought of that.
John.....
Please feel free to delte the photos on these posts if they take up too much room. I planned on sending the pics over a PM but could not figure out how to do it.
Dave
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Dave you can email me the pics, just goto my profile. but this is all kind of relevent info some people can use, I think.
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Carter, how's the Stilton coming along?
I'm getting ready to crack open my oldest one, either this weekend or next.
Next Saturday will be 8 weeks but I'm thinking of cracking it open this Saturday. Not so much because I think it will be better at 7 weeks but because I ran out of my previous blue last weekend.
My oldest does have a strong smell, but from what I've been reading, this is normal for a Stilton. It's not overpowering yet it is distinct.
I have checked the interior (a little over a week ago) and seemed to have some nice veining going on. Also, the taste test I took (also about a week ago) was pretty much wonderful.
Another reason that I'm thinking of cracking one this weekend is because I have another one aging that is only two weeks behind the first.
If I like how this one has aged I'll let the next one go until I run out, again.
That should put the second one in the 10 - 12 week range from it's make. Should be a very nice example if everything has gone well.
Give us an update on your Stilton.
This board has been pretty dead for the past couple of weeks.
Dave
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Well maybe it's dead becaue your alien camemberts are taking over the universe and shut this thread down! :D They are doing well. But 7 weeks come on Dave, 6 weeks is about the time you should start to pierce not eat, my faith in your patients is dwindling.
Seriously they're doing fine. Here's some pics, the small one is due to be pierced on 2/17/09 and the other 2/24/09. I will be making another one soon, using the 15 gallon batch so one that will be so big it'll be unreal. Actually I've worked out the volume and I think I can only do a 10 gallon batch. A 15 gallon batch would make a stilton wheel 10" in diameter and 7 1/2" high, so maybe a 12 gallon batch to make a wheel 10" x 6". I would like most wheels to be in this range.
P.S. In person they look beautiful, not real fuzzy, but nice and wrinkly.
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They do look like nice examples, Carter and I am very envious of the size of those cheeses!
As for my patience problems....
Well, I admit it, I do have a problem there...
I've always had problems waiting for my cheese to be ripe yet I've also found that smaller wheels don't seem to take as long to age.
I've eaten cheddars at 1, 2 & 3 months and they honestly didn't taste very much different.
I've eaten Gouda at anywhere from two weeks to 6 months and both the flavor and texture are there, even at a young age.
The last Stilton I ate, was only a month old and it was fantastic. Of course this is a small 4" round that is 8" tall. I'm sure it would be different for one of your large wheels.
Also, my recipe for Stilton does say to age the cheese for 8 weeks, so I'm pretty much right on schedule.
I'll take some pics and give a review once I do crack this one open.
Hopefully I'll not be disappointed.
Dave
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Wow that is dangerous posting those pictures so close to lunch time, Carter! I damn near had to wipe my screen down from the salivation activity here!! :D
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LOL, I have a few recipes for Stilton, and of course to my frustration that are totally different same principles but very different execution. But most say to pierce right away, then I learned from Dave that at that early of a stage it's still pretty soft and I might damaged the wheel. Then I got a recipe from Danlac and it said to pierce at 6 weeks, then I found that Stilton making video and that was in line with the Danlac recipe. And thanks to Dave about only piercing half way through, which you should do but a book recipe doesn't specify.
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Here's a pic of the stilton at 6 weeks. I got to pierce it tonight, Went perfect. This cheese is way more dense than I thouhgt. I've been using boards to flip it as I figured the rind would be powerdry or fuzzy mold, but it's not it's very hard and I can handle it with out any visible signs of mold on my hand. So I put them on the new mats in the blue cave. It is very firm when I plunged the wire in and still seems good and creamy.
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Carter...
Those look fantastic.
They look pretty much like my third and fourth Stiltons.
I'm not sure what happened with my second example but I've not been able to get the really brown rind on any of my other attempts.
Honestly the second example was too brown and did not have nearly as hard of a rind as a Stilton is supposed to have.
I'll be cutting into my third one this weekend and hopefully I'll be pleased.
I will say that the cheese seems extremely hard as compared to my last one, but we'll see what it's like on the inside. That is what's important afterall.
Great work Carter.
I can't wait to see these opened.
Dave