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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Washed Rind & Smear Ripened => Topic started by: Shazah on September 01, 2012, 03:55:33 AM

Title: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: Shazah on September 01, 2012, 03:55:33 AM
Thanks Yoav for the very detailed recipe, which I have followed to the letter (sort of), and for the molds, cultures and wrappers, which arrived in perfect condition and within a week of ordering.

Thanks Boofer for your visual examples which gave me the inspiration to give this a try.

I am well pleased with my first attempt.  They have just come through their salting stage and now I'm waiting for the Geo to make an appearance.

I was quite surprised by the yield from 10Ltr Farmhouse milk and 500mls full cream (I wasn't sure if I should add the cream, but opted to in the end) 
I had to quickly set up two other molds and then found I had no followers to fit them, so used a smaller basket inside, which seemed to work quite well.  They are the larger two rounds so I'll be interested to see how they age compared to the two formed in the proper Reblochon molds.

My flocculation time was 23 minutes (which I thought was quite long??)  I didn't get a clean break at 58 minutes so waited another 10.

My PH strips didn't work so well as I found it difficult to calculate the readings between 5 to 6 or 6 to 7 so I sort of had to wing that part.  I guess it will show up in the taste just how successful I was.

I'm at step #15 with my wash made and sitting at room temperature.

I'll post more pics when I have some Geo to show.
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: JeffHamm on September 01, 2012, 04:50:59 AM
Those look very good.  Where did you pick up the reb moulds?

- Jeff
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: Shazah on September 01, 2012, 05:09:49 AM
Hi Jeff

I ordered the two Reblochon moulds from Yoav, iratherfly, along with some cultures and wrappers that I couldn't find here in NZ.  I made the two taller ones from containers I bought from the Plastic Box.  They work quite well but the cheese is more difficult to flip because of the height, and of course I didn't have any followers that fitted them.

I'm thinking of making a Caerphilly next and I read that you've had some good experiences with them.

Cheers
Sharon

Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: Boofer on September 01, 2012, 06:05:49 AM
Looks good so far, Sharon. This is a fun cheese to make and it seems to turn out well each time. Very forgiving, I guess. Another point in its favor is the short time between making and eating.  :D  I should be making this at least once every three months.

Glad my threads helped you. It's good to share.  A)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: JeffHamm on September 01, 2012, 08:11:01 AM
Hi Sharon,

Yes, caerphilly has worked well for me.  I just use Homebrand's dark blue for that, and it seems to work well. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: iratherfly on September 04, 2012, 06:43:24 AM
Woo hoo!  Looks fantastic!

Make sure that the wash only stands in room temp for the first 12 hours of its life. It's fridge after that!

Good yield too, though I suspect that addition of cream may helped it.  Normally you can expect 4 wheels of 450g (+/- 50g) out of 8 liters.  Cream seem to make softer cut and also traps a lot of moisture in the final cheese so watch out for this.  Adding cream beyond the fat % of this recipe may also create stronger flavor due to lipolysis.  Geo loves fat so also beware that your geo may go a little crazy. If that happens, slow it down by lowering temperature.

Your floc time indicates that your pre-rennet time may have been too short.  The MY800 culture has a strange acidification schedule where it hardly does anything for a while and then it produces very abrupt and sharp acidity.  Not bad for a first practice. I am sure these will turn out quite close to the target. Now it's all about affinage!  What temp/humidity are they at now?

So excited! Keep us posted!
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: Shazah on September 05, 2012, 05:10:48 AM
The Geo finally showed up, so I washed as per the instructions and have them in the cave now at 11C.  Humididty is not quite there at 87% but I'm working on that to get it higher.

The wash did go into the fridge after the 12 hours at room temperature.  Will the same batch last for the two week washing period or should I re-make after the first week?

I don't know if you can see it to the left, but I tried to squeeze into the picture my piece of Spruce board that I purchased today.  It needs some work and then to be sterilized, and a sit in the sun (not much of that around at the moment) but I hope to get my cheeses onto it tomorrow.  I phoned a number of timber merchants here and they didn't sound hopeful that I would get any Spruce, but got some in the end, (although it could be anything for all I know...) :-\

I have a 6 month old Parmesan sitting at the top of my cave, are they safe from each other, uncovered??
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: bbracken677 on September 05, 2012, 12:19:47 PM
Nice looking cave holding some nice looking cheeses! One of these days (or one of these months) I am going to have to invest in a larger cave, meself. The one I have is getting a bit crowded!  I still have room for a couple more cheeses though! 
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: Shazah on September 06, 2012, 02:22:57 AM
Thanks bbracken

I am usually quite good when it comes to being patient, but I am struggling a bit with this cheese.  First I had to wait for the molds to arrive, which didn't take long, but I just wanted to get started on them, and now I drool over the cheese each day as the smell is so delicious and it's driving me crazy.  I can't wait to see the orange rind start to develop.  I just want to try some but I know it's some weeks off yet.

I've been really pleased with my cave.  It was a cheapie at $399.00 compared to the average price of $800 to $1000 for a similar dual temp wine fridge.  I check the temp by having another thermometer in there and so far it hasn't missed a beat.
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: bbracken677 on September 06, 2012, 03:22:57 AM
Awesome! One of those wine fridges will be an option I will definitely be looking into before long.

Regarding your struggle....I feel your pain, man! I really do   haha   I am in the same boat...just a few more days...I know I can make it...
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: iratherfly on September 06, 2012, 08:02:27 AM
Shazah - what do you meant you are working to get the humidity higher? Just cover the cheese with a box! That's all there's to it.  It needs it anyway. You don't want the geo and B.Linen to get all over your Parmesan etc.  Cover it ASAP!  It's a lot easier to maintain moisture in an aging box.  Also, you don't have to deal with ice buildups in the fridge when you are using a box vs humidifying the entire fridge. It's also easier to control if you want to reduce humidity of one cheese and increase humidity of another cheese - just partially open the lid of the box more or less as you wish. This way you never depend on an ambient humidity for the entire cave.  This is especially important when you make so many different cheeses. It's a different story if your entire cave is dedicated ONLY to Reblochon.  Does that make sense?
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: Shazah on September 06, 2012, 10:27:30 AM
Thanks Yoav

Done!

I've given the Parmesan a light oil, which it was due, in the hope I can avoid any damage there.
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: iratherfly on September 07, 2012, 06:08:02 PM
So moisture all good now?
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: Shazah on September 14, 2012, 06:15:11 AM
I think I am still on track with these.

I have them covered and wipe the moisture (from the cover) away with each daily flip of the cheese.

I did think they may be more orange by now, but I'm not sure if I'm just being impatient or that will arrive after I wrap them next week.

I am delighted with my spruce boards.  I did ask my brother in law to leave them rough but I guess it's just not in a good craftsman's heart to leave it that way, so they are beautifully finished.
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: iratherfly on September 14, 2012, 06:27:22 AM
They look great! Color is fine. They still need a wash or two before they go in the fridge. Look for the corners to turn softer and rounder (pillowy). The color will intensify in the next couple of weeks even after you stop the wash regiment. At the same time a secondary growth of geo will start. It will look like white dust speckles. How strong is your morge brine? 5% salt or so?
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: Shazah on September 14, 2012, 06:42:08 AM
Hi Yoav

I'm pleased the colour is good at this stage.

The morge brine is as per your instructions @ 5%

I did have a lucky escape though.  The first two times I washed the cheeses I sprinkled some rock salt, to make the light scratches.  It was only after I read your response on the Talleggio thread about not doing that longer than one or two times, I realised I had to stop.  I haven't added any extra salt since then and hopefully haven't killed off any B linens??
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: Boofer on September 15, 2012, 05:39:32 AM
Yes, I think there's a definite Reblochon-on-spruce renaissance occurring....  :D  Nice!

-Boofer-
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: iratherfly on September 18, 2012, 06:42:27 AM
Hi Yoav

I'm pleased the colour is good at this stage.

The morge brine is as per your instructions @ 5%

I did have a lucky escape though.  The first two times I washed the cheeses I sprinkled some rock salt, to make the light scratches.  It was only after I read your response on the Talleggio thread about not doing that longer than one or two times, I realized I had to stop.  I haven't added any extra salt since then and hopefully haven't killed off any B linens??
Yes, I would actually not do it more than the first wash. I repeat it later if too much stuff is growing and I want to slow it down.  The salt kills a lot of the surface bloom so while you encourage re-growth of strong elastic rind, remember that you are also killing some of the stuff you grew on it. It's a bit like trimming bushes in the gardens to make them grow nice flowers. It's a good thing but you don't want to trim it to death...
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: Shazah on October 24, 2012, 10:37:32 AM
I decided I couldn't wait any longer and I opened up one of my Reblochon after 30 days in the cold fridge.

It smells lovely, not like smelly socks I'm pleased to say.  More like mushrooms maybe?

It tastes wonderful and the texture is smooth, even though it could do with a little more ripening.

I gave half away as a gift and the remaining half didn't last long at our place. :P

I've since opened another one, a week later, and it's amazing the change in just one week.  The flavour is slightly stronger and the texture is more even, and becomes quite gooey after sitting out for 30 minutes.  They haven't turned out to be as orange as I expected, but I am still well pleased with them

As I've decided to give my clients a Cheese Box for Christmas, I've got enough time, if I make these again this weekend.  I won't be changing anything from this first make.

I think I'm going to include a wedge each of Reblochon, Caerphilly, Camobozola, Brie and/or Feta and Halloumi.  My question is, will all these cheeses stand up to being vac packed (individually) for a few days between giving the gift and eating them the following week of Christmas?
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: george on October 24, 2012, 11:22:00 AM
I think I'm going to include a wedge each of Reblochon, Caerphilly, Camobozola, Brie and/or Feta and Halloumi.  My question is, will all these cheeses stand up to being vac packed (individually) for a few days between giving the gift and eating them the following week of Christmas?
From my own experience, plus what I've read here on the forum, definitely yes on the Caerphilly.  I haven't vac'd b. linens cheeses myself yet (have a Port Salut I'm ready to try it with), but I know Boofer has done it successfully.  Cambozola and Brie, no - they'll get smooshed and suffocated.  For those I wrap the pieces semi-loosely in plastic wrap and stick 'em in a baggie.  Whole ones are in cheese paper in an open baggie.

Not sure about feta and haloumi - I think the moisture/whey from the feta might cause weirdness (not to mention the problems of trying to vac something wet).  Haloumi I've never had so I don't know if it would have the same issues as feta.  How about just using little plastic containers for the feta and associated brine and doing that one that way?

(I love planning cheeses for holiday gifts - the only problem is with some of them I have to remember to start them in June - or a year ahead!  But this is why I love my specialties, including Rebs - all of them are usually ready within 3 months or less.  LOL - more proof of my laziness.)
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: LoftyNotions on October 24, 2012, 12:59:57 PM
Very nice, Shazah.

Is that one of your larger or smaller Rebs? Have you tried both sizes yet, and if so, what differences did you notice?

A cheese for you.

Larry
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: Shazah on October 24, 2012, 07:41:48 PM
Thanks Mary/Larry

To be honest, I forgot to check for the differences.  In the end the only way I could tell the two styles apart was by some little indentations on the cheese from the feet of the mould I had to use as a makeshift follower.  The fact that the later one I opened was creamier could account for the two being from the different moulds.  I still have two left and will try to be more observant when I open them.

To sum up, any difference is very minimal so I will have no worries about using the homemade moulds for future makes (but the real deal Reblochon moulds are still my preferred option)

One improvement for this make is I now have my ExStik Ph meter, so should get a better idea on those readings.  I'm a little nervous about using it, but I've read alot about them on here and as long as I callibrate it correctly at the start I guess it should be all good to go :-\
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: Dairymaid on October 30, 2012, 01:08:21 AM

I've been really pleased with my cave.  It was a cheapie at $399.00 compared to the average price of $800 to $1000 for a similar dual temp wine fridge.  I check the temp by having another thermometer in there and so far it hasn't missed a beat.

Hi there, I am new to the site and finding my way around slowly - am reading all sorts of info which is useful (but not necessarily what I set out to look for!).  I note you are in NZ too, so am curious to know where you found a fridge for $399?  You might also know the answer to my original search - what is the flocculation time for Gouda?? 
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: Shazah on October 31, 2012, 07:06:11 AM
Hi Dairymaid

Where abouts in NZ are you?  If you're in or around Auckland you could pick up a Wine Cellar from The Happy Kiwi guy in Pakuranga, otherwise he ships around the country.  I purchased mine through TradeMe and was able to go pick it up so I didn't have added freight on top of the price.  I had a quick check on there before answering this and I couldn't find any of his adds so Googled him for his website.  He has them on there for $895.00 yikes, that's a big rise in price in a short time.  Either he realised he was onto a winner with all us cheeseheads buying up large or he's decided to match the market.  You could always contact him and try to negotiate a price by telling him you know they've been on TM for $399.00

In response to your flocculation question, you could try http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1881.0;attach=4155 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1881.0;attach=4155)

Cheers
Sharon
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: JeffHamm on October 31, 2012, 07:07:52 PM
Hi,

Lim's Electronics, in Manukau, also sells wine fridges and they are  much less than that. http://www.limelectronics.co.nz/refridgerators.html (http://www.limelectronics.co.nz/refridgerators.html)  (note, this price was only until end of Aug, so it could have changed).

Also, this is owned by my in-laws, so I'll declare that as my conflict of interest; it's because of me they realised it makes a great cheese cave as well though! :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: Shazah on October 31, 2012, 07:38:42 PM
Hi Jeff

I looked at the Haier model but unfortunately the guy in the shop (not your in-laws) couldn't confirm the temperature range for me.

Do you use that model?  If so, can you tell me the range?  I have a lot of people asking me about my cheese fridge and would be happy to recommend your folks as the go-to place to get one at a good price.
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: JeffHamm on October 31, 2012, 10:47:51 PM
Hi,

Yes, this is the model I have and use.  It's been really good for me.  I keep a thermometer in the fridge and it's constantly at 10 C, which works for me.  I don't think you can set it to be warmer, but I'm not positive on that and there may be a bit of room to go warmer.  But 10 C seems to be a good all purpose aging temperature.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: Tiarella on November 01, 2012, 03:39:49 PM
 Help, can anyone tell me what cultures I can use for Reblochon style make if I don't have what is called for?

Here's what I'm missing:
Yoav/iratherfly's recipe calls for  MY800 or Thermo B, and Flora Danica or Probation 222.  I don't have either the Flora Danica (or sub option), or the MY800
Jos Vulto's recipe in Gianaclis' book calls for a TA 50 that I don't have. (I have TA 61 though) and SR3 that I don't have.  I have Geo 13 but not the Geo 15 he calls for.
Gianaclis' Reblochon style recipe calls for this that I don't have: TA 50,

Normally I would spend happy hours scouring this site for answers but the milk is in the pot and I've to pack essence orders up until the time I'll start the make.  Ideas?

I do have MM100, MA4001, TA61,MT1, Thermo B from Abiasa, KAZUHIRO, PC VB, PC SAM, Geo 13' PLA, LBC80
off to work in my bottling room but I'll check back.....
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: bbracken677 on November 01, 2012, 04:52:25 PM
Don't know the rest of the answers, but I am fairly sure that your Geo will work...slightly different strain from the 15, and a different growth rate, which I don't think will make a huge difference.

I would also suspect that your TA61 will work also....but I will hope someone else can chime in.

The main difference between MM100 and Flora Danica is a single strain, and the mix of the common strains may be in a different ratio. I believe the main difference in outcome is the FD will contribute a bit more of a buttery flavor...but not significantly IMHO.
Title: Re: My first Reblochon, inspired by iratherfly and Boofer
Post by: iratherfly on November 11, 2012, 07:41:34 AM
Sorry Kathrin, as you can see from my other post (and the email I wrote you last week) I was up to my ears in hurricane fun...

Wish you would have just asked me...
First off, I have all of those cultures available so I can always send stuff our way!

But more importantly, it seems thay you already have everything you need.

Instead of Flora Danica you can use your MA4001. It will be a bit less creamy/buttery but still very proper and some people actually prefer it that way. MA4001 also contains S.Thermophilius which is exactly ...TA 50!  Add to this your Thermo B and you got the rest of what you need for this mixture! Done!

MY800 is a culture that not many people are familiar with. It's a specialty culture that is made specifically for Reblochon.  The trick of it is not so much the components in it but rather their very unique acidity schedule. This mixture won't mimic it perfectly but it would definitely do the job and give you a proper Reblochon!

Now as far as the rind treatment goes; good news here too. PLA is *THE* Reblochon rind culture. You don't need anything else. Just use PLA (as in the recipe I posted).

Jos Vulto by the way is a dear friend here in NYC. He is also a forum member, (Forum name is Oude Kaas).  His cheese isn't a classic Reblochon. He is more about creating propitiatory cheeses that let the milk speak for itself.