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GENERAL BOARDS => Other Artisan Crafts => Topic started by: Wayne Harris on November 01, 2011, 09:43:39 AM

Title: 2011 Crush
Post by: Wayne Harris on November 01, 2011, 09:43:39 AM
I swear, I will start making cheese again this year.  Lotta changes in my home.
This is the start of my new cheese room. (no dungeon this time.)

I would be furiously building out my new cheese/wine room, but the 2011 grape crush got in the way. 
Here is a short video from this weekend's activities.

BTW, thanks to all that helped me out with this new crusher. It worked beautifully.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7dHpBrQlHg# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7dHpBrQlHg#)
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: linuxboy on November 01, 2011, 10:08:39 AM
Alexander valley fruit again? Been a tough growing year, sugars were so low coming into October. New build looks great!
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Wayne Harris on November 01, 2011, 10:14:38 AM
It was a tough year in California. Cool weather, and a rainy harvest.  There was a lot of rot. Many distributors could not, or would not deliver the required tonnages.  Frankly, I was a bit surprised to actually get all my fruit.

Sugar was indeed down a bit. (24.5) brix.  But to be honest, that is almost perfect for me. I'm a bit tired of getting over-sugared grapes.  I end up either making rocket fuel, or watering it back.

This year, I don't have to adjust the sugar. 
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: linuxboy on November 01, 2011, 10:26:15 AM
We are feeling the weather challenges here in the Ukiah valley. I think just about everyone is done with harvest and can breathe easier. Lower tonnage and lower rates due to lower sugar makes for harder times. But, at least no smoke damage.  And I agree with you, less sugar makes for more subtle wines, more old world in their approach. Hard to push the yeast that high to ~15, always have to watch the osmotic pressure and adjust.

Awesome :)
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Wayne Harris on November 06, 2011, 10:08:09 AM
3/4 done with the ferment.

Good color this year.  Deep Ruby like i like.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: DeejayDebi on December 14, 2011, 07:55:00 PM
That's pretty! Gonna be a great batch Wayne!
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: shotski on February 03, 2013, 04:51:07 PM
Nice deep colour  Wayne. How long    did you let it ferment on the skins or do you go by the brix readings? if so what was the start and rack readings?
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Tomer1 on February 03, 2013, 05:38:57 PM
I often go with high extraction style and get premium fruit. (pay about 2$\kg for cab sauv)
I find that fermenting to dryness (-2 brix)  before light pressing is plenty of skin contact. (about 6-9 days, depending on vigor of the yeast strain but with BDX is usually a bit longer)  Im not a believer in 2-3 weeks extended maceration.
I also do a heavy press and seperate that to blend with less expenssive fruit for a table wine which I fine for an early drinking wine (bottle within 12 months).
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Wayne Harris on February 04, 2013, 10:58:33 AM
Nice deep colour  Wayne. How long    did you let it ferment on the skins or do you go by the brix readings? if so what was the start and rack readings?
I did a cold soak initially. Then fermented to dryness.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Wayne Harris on February 04, 2013, 11:00:37 AM
I often go with high extraction style and get premium fruit. (pay about 2$\kg for cab sauv)
I find that fermenting to dryness (-2 brix)  before light pressing is plenty of skin contact. (about 6-9 days, depending on vigor of the yeast strain but with BDX is usually a bit longer)  Im not a believer in 2-3 weeks extended maceration.
I also do a heavy press and seperate that to blend with less expenssive fruit for a table wine which I fine for an early drinking wine (bottle within 12 months).
I did a medium press.  Cab Sauv from Alexander Valley, CA.

Medium quality grapes.  Very very fruity this year. Almost too fruity for me.  Hoping that with the addition of oak, I get some balance.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: shotski on February 04, 2013, 02:32:39 PM
cold soak ???????
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Tomer1 on February 04, 2013, 03:52:33 PM
Its when you let the crushed grapes macerate under cold temp (below 10c, optimally below 4c), cool enough to retard fermentation by a day or two and then you allow the must to warm and pitch the yeast (or not if your going wild).  I'l leave it to wayne to extend on that if he wants to :)
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: shotski on February 04, 2013, 04:06:50 PM
What does soaking do for the process? I thought it was the yeast eating the sugars in the skins that released the colour.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Wayne Harris on February 04, 2013, 05:44:55 PM
Tomer1 was correct. It is also sometimes referred to as Cold Maceration (http://www.crushnet.com/video/series/winemakers-minute/ep6-winemakers-minute-episode-6-cold-soak).
Last year wanted to squeeze as much essance out of my grapes as I possibly could.  (did not crush in 2012)

So I did a 3 day cold soak where I kept the crushed grapes at 40 deg F to let the skins steep.
In addition, i used an enzyme (http://morewinepro.com/view_product/21017/100470/Lallzyme_EX) to dig into the skins to extract even more color and flavors.

In fact i have a slightly overly fruity wine that i hope to balance with something really earthy this summer.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Tomer1 on February 04, 2013, 06:35:01 PM
Maybe some medium+ french oak can add a bit of spice.   
I myself did not crush aswell at 2012. just did a bit of white.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: shotski on February 04, 2013, 07:21:36 PM
Thanks for the feed back guys. I have been making wine for a couple of years now but only this year starting to get serious. I will be following this thread with much interest.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Tomer1 on February 05, 2013, 04:36:32 AM
I'l be bottling the 2011 and a non vintage syrah-cab soon, so I'l put up some pictures.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: shotski on March 17, 2013, 05:28:38 PM
I bottled 134 bottles of 2013 wine this weekend. Some Cabernet Sav, some Merlot, some Misson and some Cab Sav and Allocate mixed.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Wayne Harris on March 18, 2013, 10:12:16 AM
Very nice. Always nice to have some wine in the racks.

2013 though? Not sure I understand the timeline. Where these grapes grown in 2012?
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: shotski on March 18, 2013, 04:26:03 PM
Oopssss  yes 2012. In a month I will be getting crushed and frozen grapes from Chile, that would be 2013.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Tomer1 on March 18, 2013, 05:48:59 PM
In 2011 I expirimented with a PET container (this was originally a water jug), I filled it up with 19L of the pressed wine portion of a highly extracted tannic cabarnet.
After 12 months it was ready to drink compered to the demijohn which was completly muted as most high extracted cabs are at an "early age" but I left it be.
After 18 months and perhaps not enough watch on the Fso2 levels it started to show some signs of oxidation and lose alot of frutiness but it was still "Alive".
I decided to blend it with some shiraz into a 25L spair demijohn (19L+6L of fruity shiraz) and its been sitting there for a few months now.

It developed a bottle bouquet!  It doesnt smell anything like a fruity shiraz or tierd cabarnet sauv.  More like its moved on to its second life (8-10 years in the bottle).
I was floored! I had a wine friend come over to sample some (I decanted it a bit as demijohns tend to be reductive) and he couldnt believe it was not barrel aged.   
Turned out to be an amazing table wine. (I dont think it will last more then 2-3 years before dying in the bottle though).

So... PET is a good barrel alternative and certainly offers much more oxygen uptake then glass.  Try it!

Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: shotski on March 18, 2013, 06:28:21 PM
Thanks for the tip Tomer. I had a quick look at the PET bottle and will look into it further in the next week or so.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: shotski on March 18, 2013, 08:23:31 PM
Hey Tomer \ Wayne an off topic question about PH meters. Can you use the same PH meter for cheese as well as wine? I have been thinking about getting one. If so the one I have seen used in making wine there is a lot of dicking around with solutions. In cheese making how do you get the reading in a timely fashion during the process. And can you recommend a make and model for a place to start looking?

Thanks john 
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Wayne Harris on April 05, 2013, 06:01:06 AM
While there are specialized pH meters for both, I use the same meter for all.

If/when I ever go pro, I will upgrade my pH meters accordingly.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Tomer1 on April 05, 2013, 06:29:47 AM
Same here. I use the same one with flat probe.   I do pH and TA - titration (8.2 method) with it with accurate results backed by more expenssive devices.
The key is proper maintanance and 3 point calibration before each use.

For winemaking, a tabletop meter is likely more comfortable but Im sure one could DIY a table top holder for a stick meter.   

Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: shotski on April 05, 2013, 03:21:07 PM
Thanks for the feed back.

Tomer1, "I do pH and TA - titration (8.2 method)"  do you know were I can find some info on this method as I am new to using a meter and and calibration. Like always everyone stresses sanitation and maintenance. 
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Tomer1 on April 06, 2013, 08:04:29 AM
Here you go.     

For white must I often use color indicator, faster then calibrating the meter. I often just quickly add enough naoh to reach aprox 4 g\L titrated acid (as tartaric) and then from there go very slowly, drop at a time so I dont overshot.   White grapes often come at 4.5-5 g\L and then I correctly by pH and then do a second correction after fermentation by taste to achive good balance.

For red wine\must the color is often too deep to use a color indicator without diluting the sample by 5-8 folds and I find that your error margin is bigger.
Thats where the 8.2 method comes handy.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: shotski on April 07, 2013, 08:07:47 AM
 Thanks Tomer & Wayne for the help
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Boofer on April 07, 2013, 08:33:42 AM
If/when I ever go pro, I will upgrade my pH meters accordingly.
Hey, Wayne, did you ever finish your new subterranean cheese "studio"? :)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Wayne Harris on April 07, 2013, 12:58:57 PM
It is indeed finished.

I am now just updating my cheese press, and I will be back in business.

And by update, I really mean, making a new one.
:D
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: shotski on June 10, 2013, 07:00:33 PM
Very nice. Always nice to have some wine in the racks.

2013 though? Not sure I understand the timeline. Where these grapes grown in 2012?

Ok now I have my 2013 grapes fermenting. I got some Pinot Noir and Carmenere earlier this week. Just love the aroma of fermenting grapes. The wife not so much.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Dibbs on June 11, 2013, 03:38:23 AM
...Just love the aroma of fermenting grapes. The wife not so much.

Tell her to take a shower.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Tomer1 on June 27, 2013, 08:35:56 PM
2013 grapes have already ripened?  where are they from?
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: shotski on June 28, 2013, 02:45:52 PM
2013 grapes have already ripened?  where are they from?

I got frozen crushed grapes from Chile.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Wayne Harris on October 22, 2013, 08:03:46 PM
Another summer come and gone.  I made more wine, but sadly no cheese.
My problem is still equipment. I don't trust my heater, and I have yet to build a real cheese press.
Too many hobbies..


Cabernet Sauvignon Crush 2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIUTtSD05HM#)
2013 Cabernet Sauvignon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMYBTyyFn4Y#)
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: shotski on October 22, 2013, 08:28:59 PM
WOW that is one sweet setup. I just did a  50% Cab Sav and 50 % merlot only 10 lugs. Added some colour pro and now it is going through a malolactic fermentation. The grapes I got are from the Lodi do you know what region the grapes you got are from? The PH was good this year @3.6. Please keep me posted on the progress of this years vintage.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Tomer1 on October 23, 2013, 07:33:10 AM
A whole microbin.  how much are you fermenting?   a barrel worth?
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Wayne Harris on October 23, 2013, 09:16:03 AM
A whole microbin.  how much are you fermenting?   a barrel worth?
Yes, a single 80gal Flextank.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: linuxboy on October 23, 2013, 09:21:08 AM
Nice, Wayne. May the good yeasts be with your wine :)
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Wayne Harris on October 23, 2013, 09:21:37 AM
Do you know what region the grapes you got are from? The PH was good this year @3.6
I got mine from Lodi CA as well. my pH was 3.52, TA was 6.6 25.5 Brix

My fermentation is just about done. SG s morning was 1.004

Did a 1 day cold soak with Opti-Red and Lallzyme EX.
Used EnoFerm CSM yeast for my alcoholic fermentation.

May press tonight, or tomorrow night.  After I rack off the Major lees, will kick off my MLF using Enoferm Alpha.


Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Wayne Harris on October 23, 2013, 09:23:47 AM
Nice, Wayne. May the good yeasts be with your wine :)
Hey, long time... 
thanks
As my ferment slows to a stop, I always get nervous.
Very very close now.  SG 1.004 right now.. almost there.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: shotski on October 23, 2013, 08:36:05 PM
Do you know what region the grapes you got are from? The PH was good this year @3.6
I got mine from Lodi CA as well. my pH was 3.52, TA was 6.6 25.5 Brix

My fermentation is just about done. SG s morning was 1.004

Did a 1 day cold soak with Opti-Red and Lallzyme EX.
Used EnoFerm CSM yeast for my alcoholic fermentation.

May press tonight, or tomorrow night.  After I rack off the Major lees, will kick off my MLF using Enoferm Alpha.

I did a 2 day cold soak with Color pro enzyme and used Lalvin RC-212 I like this yeast because it ferments a little slower and does not generate as much heat. I used Lalvin Bacchus for MAF. It sounds like your grapes had more sugar , my blend ended up at 23 Brix.

Thanks for the info on what you are using it gives me other products \ options to explore.
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: shotski on March 09, 2014, 08:13:36 PM
WOW that is one sweet setup. I just did a  50% Cab Sav and 50 % merlot only 10 lugs. Added some colour pro and now it is going through a malolactic fermentation. The grapes I got are from the Lodi do you know what region the grapes you got are from? The PH was good this year @3.6. Please keep me posted on the progress of this years vintage.


Hey Wayne how did your 2013 wine turn out? 6 months ago I joined the AWO  http://www.makewine.com/ (http://www.makewine.com/) and I entered my first wine competition. I entered the Cab Sav \ Marlot  from Lodi California and a  Gewurtz from Niagara and got silver on each of them. They will be going to the provincials in a couple of months. 
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: Wayne Harris on June 16, 2015, 02:42:19 PM
the 2013 turned out Great. 
in Fact, I'm going to be bottling it here in a few months.  When I do, I'll snap a few photos and let you know.
Thanks!
Title: Re: 2011 Crush
Post by: shotski on June 19, 2015, 05:41:53 PM
That's great Wayne, looking forward to seeing the pic's.