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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Rennet Surface White Mold (Penicillium candidum) Ripened => Topic started by: bbracken677 on July 31, 2012, 01:32:59 AM

Title: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: bbracken677 on July 31, 2012, 01:32:59 AM
I plan on starting a make of triple cream in a few days or a week and am currently researching all I can find.
Unfortunately there seems to be a dearth of direct information regarding triple creams.
It seems that (correct me if I am wrong) that my approach should be to follow a camembert, brie, or perhaps chaource recipe but increase the fat content with cream so that my end result is about 75%?
 
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: linuxboy on July 31, 2012, 01:36:50 AM
Basically, yes. But focus on milk PF and not fat level. Triple creams are as much or more about moisture content and affinage as fat content.

There's quite a bit of detail out there. What do you need specifically?
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: FRANCOIS on July 31, 2012, 09:50:56 PM
I know triple creams by PF ratio but that's not how it's actually calculated.  You work out the weight of fat in your whole milk, then add 2x the amount.  Cream in NZ is 40% fat, so you need to work out the ratios.  On a factory scale we do it by PF ratio because that's how the mixing valve and cream pump work.

Use the lowest end of your rennet addition range, if you add too much rennet your set will be too hard, too fast and you'll have textural issues, in my experience anyway.  I have worked places where they actually add more rennet, then cut at floculation and stir like hell.  There are many paths to the same finished cheese.
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: bbracken677 on August 01, 2012, 03:44:52 AM
Thanks for the replies.
Linuxboy: specifically I was asking if in order to make a nice triple cream if I should follow a brie or camembert recipe, but just add heavy cream to reach the levels necessary.
I have scoured (am relatively new to cheesemaking) the forums I know of and have yet to see an actual recipe for triple cream. By inference I gather that I should just use a brie recipe, for example, and increase the fat content by adding cream to the milk. If there is a recipe available for triple cream I would certainly appreciate a point in the right direction : )
What should the milk PF be for an excellent triple cream?

I am considering using a store bought milk, however I do have a source for raw milk (rather pricey tho at 8 dollars a gallon).

Francois: thanks for the rennet tip...makes sense.

Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: FRANCOIS on August 01, 2012, 06:09:50 AM
You can use most any soft ripened cheese recipe and just add more cream.  Triple cream in NZ is 0.41 PF, but that is very low I would think in comparison to the rest of the world since we naturally have more fat in whole milk than any other place I've ever been.
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: george on August 01, 2012, 09:53:34 AM
bbracken, did you also see this thread?

http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4085.0.html (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4085.0.html)
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: bbracken677 on August 01, 2012, 02:36:43 PM
Yes...I read that. I think I am just going to have to jump in and try a small make so that I can put all the pieces together. I will also know better what questions to ask.
In a manner of speaking, I dont know enough to ask the right questions : )   

The process, although more complicated than what I have done in the past, seems simple enough to follow.

Will let y'all know how things work out...I expect to begin the make the next few days or so.
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: bbracken677 on August 01, 2012, 02:44:29 PM
Also...one question: On another website I saw where someone made their "rind culture" by using an existing commercial brie rind. Is that practical?
It worked for him in that he achieved the bloom and had a product that looked like a brie, but did have a slippage issue that I feel was not related.
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: bbracken677 on August 01, 2012, 02:54:23 PM
What would be the result if I used an MM100 culture along with the homemade rind culture?
I think I can get the recipe cultures locally (there is a beer/wine brewing shop downtown that carries some cheesemaking supplies) but am not sure they have all I need. I also dont care to drive the distance (am outside Dallas) to get the cultures if I can make do with what I have.
My goal is a buttery smooth texture and taste similar to that of Andre's triple cream.
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: george on August 01, 2012, 03:49:33 PM
I use MM100 for all my camembert - don't see why it wouldn't be just as yummy in St. Andre-type.  It's WAY better than a more generic one.  I've tried using Flora Danica a couple of times, but didn't get as good a bloom as with MM100 - it was early on, though, so may have been due more to my inexperience at the time than a major issue with the culture.
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: bbracken677 on August 01, 2012, 05:32:27 PM
Oh...and what would be a good protein to fat ratio?
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: JeffHamm on August 01, 2012, 06:43:50 PM
Hi bbracken677,

I don't make bloomy rind cheeses very often, but when I do I just harvest while mould from a store bought brie or camembert.  Just cut off the surface white bloom of a bite sized wedge.  Mix that into some 25 C water with a sterilized fork.  Mash it around and stirr until the water is good and cloudy.  Then, just pour this liquid into the milk when you add your culture.  I try and prevent any lumps from transfering but I don't think it matters.

This works just fine and isn't the cause of the slipskin (which is related to ripening too fast, usually prevented by lowering the temperature).   However, it does mean an extra possible source for contamination.  Don't use a cheese that's been sitting out, unwrapped, in your fridge or on the counter, etc.  Buy a new cheese, open it, take what you need, eat the rest to destroy the evidence. :)

I've never had a problem with contamination doing this, just make sure you've steralized absolutely everything (i.e. the cup you'll mix the mould and warm water in; the fork you'll mash it with; the knife you use to take the mould off the initial cheese) and you'll be fine. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: bbracken677 on August 01, 2012, 09:54:15 PM
cool...I already have my cheese, still in wrapper. It hasnt fully matured yet according to the label and it is organic as well; so it should work just fine  :)
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: bbracken677 on August 02, 2012, 12:27:02 PM
Doing a little research I discovered a PF ratio of .8-.9 is what I am looking for.
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: bbracken677 on August 02, 2012, 04:10:32 PM
Correction: The PF ratio is .9 for a brie or camembert, but what about a triple cream? In that case it would seem that PF ratio should be like .3 ? ?
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: linuxboy on August 02, 2012, 07:18:04 PM
No, please read Francois's comment

You can use most any soft ripened cheese recipe and just add more cream.  Triple cream in NZ is 0.41 PF, but that is very low I would think in comparison to the rest of the world since we naturally have more fat in whole milk than any other place I've ever been.
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: bbracken677 on August 02, 2012, 08:58:25 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but triple cream is so named because it has triple the amount of fat content as would be the normal brie or camambert. That would make the PF ratio in the neighborhood of .3 
If it is higher than .4 then I am at a loss as to why it would be referred to as triple cream.
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: FRANCOIS on August 03, 2012, 12:51:04 AM
Sorry about that, I meant double creams.  We don't make any triples.  Doubles are .41 and triples would then be about .3.
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: bbracken677 on August 03, 2012, 03:50:00 PM
Thanks! 
Last night I spent many hours reviewing all the data available on this website. It is amazing how much information is here! Once I begin my project I will post progress reports here, since even though I think I have the processes down (knowledge-wise) I am very much lacking in the experience department.
I will be starting with a gallon of store bought 2% milk, and will be adding a quart of heavy cream to reach the triple cream standard.
I am planning on starting the project in about a week or a tad less.
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: iratherfly on August 04, 2012, 06:48:15 AM
Stay away from store bought milk. They fail miserably. Most are ultra pasteurized and pretty much dead. They are also homogenized which makes really bad texture and the fat behaves totally different.  If you can't get raw milk, try to find non-homogenized (also called creamtop, cream-top or creamline) milk from a local farmer's market or your nearest Whole Foods. You want it to be gently pasteurized. Obviously it is far more expensive but it makes the difference between success and failure of this cheese and it's a night and day difference in coagulation abilities and yield. It's also nice to know your milk comes from local grass fed cows of a local family farmer rather than a badly treated factory cattle that munches on corn/ferments, growth hormones and antibiotics (all of which may also fail your cheese).

Remember that when you age cheese, every little nuance in the milk amplifies ten folds. You won't be able to feel these things in your morning cereal or by adding a bit to your coffee, but in aged cheese all of these things come out.  You spend so much on cultures, fridge and time spent on this project, it would be disheartening to see if fail because of its #1 component: milk.
Title: Re: Triple Cream soft cheese
Post by: bbracken677 on August 04, 2012, 01:25:21 PM
Thanks for the tip. The milk I was going to use is not ultra-pasteurized, but has resulted in some textural issues in the past that I thought were process driven. I can (and have used) a local supplier of raw milk in the past.....I was going the cheap route this first time, but you have changed my mind : )