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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Semi-Hard "Sweet" Washed Curd => Topic started by: Brie on April 16, 2011, 10:38:51 PM

Title: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: Brie on April 16, 2011, 10:38:51 PM
Trying to replicate a cheese made by Beehive Cheese named SeaHive, which is washed in Honey and Sea Salt. Made a washed-curd tomme, which was fine. Began washing with honey and sea salt after about a month. I believe this is where my problem began. It developed blue mold, which I then just washed over with the honey/salt mixture. Halfway through the aging I thought that perhaps I should have just used a sea salt brine with a tad of honey. The cheese looks great; yet it has this musty aroma and taste that I was not hoping for. Suggestions, anyone?
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: smilingcalico on April 17, 2011, 01:44:08 AM
I would guess that you needed to clean the blue off rather than just brushing over it.  Blue mold really seems to impart a lot of it's own flavor, which may have muted to that musty flavor with the washing.  I might have also started the washing sooner to help the honey get in a little better, then back off for the rind to develop. 
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: kookookachoo on April 17, 2011, 09:43:44 AM
Brie, obviously I can't offer any help or suggestions, as I'm new to all this..but I must say, I really admire your "experimentations"!  I have a feeling you will perfect this, or nearly so, to your liking. :D 
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: smilingcalico on November 09, 2011, 09:00:24 PM
Brie, any more luck? I did a honey walnut gouda.  I had been having trouble with the nuts getting moldy and rancid, but by simply rubbing the cheese once a week forthe first month totally eliminated my issue in addition to preventing all mold growth on the entire surface. I was also thinking how not all honey is created equal, that is, in terms of flavor. Did you use a quality local honey, or mass produced?
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: Mix spanish cheese on November 21, 2011, 05:59:35 PM
with honey is very easy u get fungus , becose their love it.

is faster element mushroom growth. like panela. try to change that tech.

or think about it , too.
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: Tomer1 on November 22, 2011, 04:12:22 AM
If its concentrated enough (real thick) the osmosis pressure will help against bacterial growth along with brine washing.
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: elkato on December 08, 2011, 10:32:55 AM
The Mayan indians have used bee honey as a anticeptic-antibiotic ointment for all kinds of open wounds for thousands of years, try it on any skin wound and it will not get infected, I guess that if you cover the whole cheese in honey nothing would grow on it not even the good stuff.
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: Tomer1 on December 08, 2011, 11:41:32 AM
I reckon that if you put high fructose corn syrup on the wound it would also result in the same effect. 
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: sominus on December 08, 2011, 01:34:57 PM
I reckon that if you put high fructose corn syrup on the wound it would also result in the same effect.

Actually I suspect not...  Honey is naturally resistant to fungal and bacterial infection -- witness the millenia-old honey pulled out of the pyramids.  I've left honey in some pretty ugly conditions and nothing has touched it.

Corn syrup, on the other hand, can turn moldy in a week.  Bacteria and fungus go to town on it.

Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: Tomer1 on December 08, 2011, 03:02:36 PM
Im trying to make a point that the osmosic pressure is one of the main anti-bacterial "agents" to play a role here.

http://bio.waikato.ac.nz/honey/honey_intro.shtml#Osmotic (http://bio.waikato.ac.nz/honey/honey_intro.shtml#Osmotic)

But apearently theres also hydrogen peroxide which is a strong oxidizer enzymatically produced and found in honey
so I was wrong and my point doesnt stand :)



 
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: iratherfly on December 10, 2011, 11:28:30 AM
Yes, I don't think Hydrogen Peroxide gets osmosis like salt. Salt is very quick and spreads throughout the paste rapidly. Oxidation effect is mainly a problem with fatty cheeses (rancidity to the fat) but Tomme are usually made lowfat
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: Jessica_H on December 10, 2011, 07:52:26 PM
I'm working on 2 gouda right now (curds setting as I type) that I want to do an interesting rind on.  The honey/sea salt might be nice with this mild cheese.  Did you actually make a brine of it?  I was thinking I'd make the cheese, let it brine, and let it dry.  Then just take a honey / sea salt slurry and rub it down and see if I could let that dry(ish) and then vacuum pack it.

Is that kind of what you had done?
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: iratherfly on December 10, 2011, 08:23:27 PM
Sounds interesting. Gouda is kind of a neutral rindless cheese that's all about the milk, but flavored version with cumin, caraway etc. I think this would be really nice to experiment with honey and sea salt. Sounds original and delicious.
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: smilingcalico on December 11, 2011, 12:03:12 AM
Jessica, not sure if I'm jumping in between you and Brie, but I'll tell you what I did. Brined, then simply smeared the honey on.  The honey I used was raw, I'm curious to try some crystallized, or white honey to see about differences.  At any rate, the raw did something odd, it seems the important stuff stayed on the surface/absorbed in, while the liquid content just ran down the side and pooled on the board.  In essence I'd say if you mixed salt and honey you might be able to skip the brine step and just get your salt content from the honey salt combo.
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: Jessica_H on December 11, 2011, 11:28:45 AM
Quote
Brined, then simply smeared the honey on.  The honey I used was raw

Interesting.  I've just put the cheese in the brine.  I'm actually not a huge fan of salt in general (just for my taste) so I think I'll do the brine and then honey and THEN as a final step add some crystalized sea salt on the outside more for look.  But I won't use much.  I'll see if I can't get a bit of a rind to form with a few thin coats of honey drying them for a week in between?

I really LOVE the tomme I did with a cyanne/olive oil rind.

One thing I'm finding (6-10 months after I started making cheese) is that I'm VERY good at making a VERY dry and VERY hard cheese :)  So I'm working to preserve more moisture content.  I struggled with wax in the beginning so I've invested in a vacuum sealer this christmas.  My goal is to seal these cheeses sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: smilingcalico on December 11, 2011, 07:12:35 PM
Oh, I forgot to say I let the cheese dry for 24 hours after brine and before the honey.  Yes, once a week is  perfect for the first month.  I didn't honey after that and the rind was still mold when I cut it at 2 months of age.  For moister cheese you could use a longer floc multiplier and slightly larger curd cut, but another technique that worked for me was to ditch the spoon for stirring.  I found it still continued cutting the curds no matter how gentle I was.  Instead, use a plate stood on end and rotate it like a revolving door.  My curds began turning out much more moist and fluffy, resulting in a moister final cheese.
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: Brie on January 20, 2012, 10:12:55 PM
Sorry--been off the board for awhile--interested to hear how your honey experiments have worked out. I originally used a "paste" of local honey mixed with sea salt; which, as I said turned out "musty" tasting. In my next endeavor, I would make a brine solution with honey added, and wipe down with mixture once per week--give it some time to absorb and form a rind, rather than closing the cheese in; which is what I believe I did. Luck to you all and keep us posted!
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: Helen on February 14, 2012, 09:56:21 PM
Just wanted to say that I have done something similar with a brine wash mixed with raw honey and cyprus black salt. It was heavenly to say the least and one of the best cheeses I have ever made.
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: Tiarella on October 24, 2012, 11:40:58 PM
Jessica, not sure if I'm jumping in between you and Brie, but I'll tell you what I did. Brined, then simply smeared the honey on.  The honey I used was raw, I'm curious to try some crystallized, or white honey to see about differences.  At any rate, the raw did something odd, it seems the important stuff stayed on the surface/absorbed in, while the liquid content just ran down the side and pooled on the board.  In essence I'd say if you mixed salt and honey you might be able to skip the brine step and just get your salt content from the honey salt combo.

SmilingCalico,  How did your honey smeared cheese taste?  How did the rind development go?  I've just created a Caerphilly honey-smeared cheese.  I did embed leaves in the honey too.  Wondering what rind care yours required.
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: Tiarella on October 30, 2012, 09:17:03 PM
attaching photo of the honey washed leaf adorned cheese.  I've had some molds try to start up on it and I switched to olive oil patted gently on.  Ideas for care welcome.  I've done the olive oil twice already.
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: smilingcalico on November 11, 2012, 02:40:45 AM
Sorry to respond so late. Rind development was great, no issues there. Musty, as Brie put it, is quite right. That's what I got too. But it was mold free  entire life, so I'm thrilled about that. After the initial rind treatment the first month, there was literally none after that, just flipping as usual.
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: Tiarella on November 11, 2012, 05:37:48 AM
I'm having a battle keeping the wild blue molds off so I'm switching my rind treatment to Alp's suggestion of wine,water,salt rind wash to create a paste on the cheese to let that create a rind that is inhospitable to molds.  The good news is that the embedded leaves are solidly a part of the rind and seem like they will be there for good.

So, Did the musty smell permeate the whole cheese?  I did a Manchego style a few months ago and it did have some wild blue attacks initially but I cleaned that odd and oiled it thinking all would be well.  But the flavor is strong.....sort of musty but now I'm wondering if it could be the Lipase also that is creating this strong smell.  If I take the rind off the cheese is sort of tasty.....but still stronger than I expected and it's hard to parse out what is mold must and what is Lipase.  Comments anyone?
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: Tomer1 on November 11, 2012, 06:44:12 AM
You could crystalize the honey if you had a burner and create a hard shell.

Just to show you how resilient yeast are,  I started developing a black currant wine recipe based on a 65 brix (over 600 grams of sugar per liter) concentrate, basically a very sweet jam with alot of solids.   
The package managed to ferment (this is done by a type of osmotolerant yeast).  obviously something went wrong with their packaging but its still cool.       This same yeast (S. Baily) also spoils honey.  :)
Title: Re: Honey, I need help with my Honey Tomme
Post by: smilingcalico on November 12, 2012, 12:24:20 AM
The must was mostly external. The interior flavor was really Ho hum. I heard recently that if you really want to knock down blue mold, a 6% brine wash is ideal.  I learned long ago however that if you don't want blue mold, but insist on a natural rind, you WILL have to repeatedly wash your cheese, and that's all there is to it. I still subscribe to not washing the second you see a mold developing. Once a week is fine, backing down the longer it matures.