CheeseForum.org ยป Forum
CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Lactic Surface White Mold (Penicillium candidum) Ripened => Topic started by: WhiteSageFarms on September 18, 2010, 10:56:32 PM
-
Last weekend I made Crottin, following the recipe Francois posted a while back, and milk from my appropriately named La Mancha goat, "Paradise".
I've posted a link to the little album I just made, in case anyone wants to look, offer any suggestions or constructive criticism, etc.
I'm really excited about these, they're my first "make" of mold ripened cheese. They smell really good :-)
I've tried to attach a couple photos-hope they show up. one photo of my Crottin, and a photo of my wee Crottin de Chavignol that I ordered from Murray's, following advice from Iratherfly, so I'll have an idea of what a proper Crottin tastes like. Yum!
Thanks to Iratherfly and Francios for the inspiration I gleened from reading your posts and the encouragement from a couple of PM's to and from Iratherfly!
(http://)
http://www.whitesagefarms.com/CROTTIN-PHOTOS-SEPT-2010/#slides/P1330251.JPG (http://www.whitesagefarms.com/CROTTIN-PHOTOS-SEPT-2010/#slides/P1330251.JPG)
-
Beautiful! Love the slideshow and your hygrometer. It is so much prettier than my digital!
I decided that crottin is to be my next cheese make and I am going to use Yoav's recipe. Thanks for all the photos, I'm ready now!
Christine
-
Very nice! Good photos too!
-
loved your slide show, and great ideal to use those frosting containers, I was going to ask were you got the interesting molds from when i watched your slide show. I too have just made my first crottin from my own nubian goats. The mold is growing very slowly. Can't wait to try them when they are close to being ready.
-
Looks very good. I also enjoyed your slide show. Very nice moulds too, perfect size for crottins.
-
Where is a copy of the recipe? I have been kicking around the idea of trying these.
-
http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2019.msg15259.html#msg15259 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2019.msg15259.html#msg15259)
I make mine almost the same way, except slightly different (slower) culture at 2% bulk equivalent.
-
Thanks for the compliments Christine! I used "Jalbum", to make the photogallery/slideshow... & I found the hygrometer when I did a search on Amazon. I like it's funky look, too! Reminds me of something you'd see on an old ship.
There is so much good "cheese energy" on this forum. :) I was inspired after reading the conversations about making Crottin, and looking at pictures of the ones Yoav posted. It's amazing how much knowledge and goodwill there is on this forum.
I'm going to try Yoav's recipe too! Can't wait to hear how yours turn out!
~Laurie
Beautiful! Love the slideshow and your hygrometer. It is so much prettier than my digital!
I decided that crottin is to be my next cheese make and I am going to use Yoav's recipe. Thanks for all the photos, I'm ready now!
Christine
-
Thanks DeejayDebi! I was surprised when I joined this forum and finally put 2 + 2 together & realized that you're Deejay's Smoke Pit! I've looked at your website many times since I started making cheese at the beginning of 2010. Your site is wonderful.
All your cheeses look really great to me, I can tell you've been at it for a long time.
I've got meat goats, so I'm going to have to look around your site for some interesting things to do with the meat. :-)
~Laurie
Very nice! Good photos too!
-
Thanks peri7132! I got the idea to use the frosting containers from a customer's post on Ricki Carroll's website :-)
The frosting was good too, & I didn't make any cakes to put it on LOL. Very cool that you've got Nubians. I love them, but somehow ended up with La Manchas and some mini dairy breeds. Do you have a website with some photos of your goats?
I first noticed the mold on mine on day 4, it seemed to be growing fast, then I moved them to the wine cooler & it slowed down. It's coming along nicely. I have to go back and re-read the Crottin posts and find out what I'm supposed to do with them next... hopefully I get to eat them soon. :)
~Laurie
loved your slide show, and great ideal to use those frosting containers, I was going to ask were you got the interesting molds from when i watched your slide show. I too have just made my first crottin from my own nubian goats. The mold is growing very slowly. Can't wait to try them when they are close to being ready.
-
Thank you Francois, merci!
I was quite intimidated while I was making the Crottins because I'm such a beginner... but as soon as I had the curds in and out of the molds, in and out of the brine, then actually saw mold growing on them I felt much better! The first thing I noticed when they were sitting out at room temperature when the mold started growing was the aroma of bread dough rising, the wonderful yeasty smell. Now that they're in the cooler, I don't notice the yeast smell, but they definitely have a wonderful aroma.
Thank you for posting the recipe, I'm going to treasure it.
~Laurie
Looks very good. I also enjoyed your slide show. Very nice moulds too, perfect size for crottins.
-
OK, now this is where I get confused and intimidated- the "2% bulk equivalent" type of statements. I need some enlightenment. Do I need to learn algebra again, just to make cheese? LOL!?!
~Laurie
[url]http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2019.msg15259.html#msg15259[/url] ([url]http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2019.msg15259.html#msg15259[/url])
I make mine almost the same way, except slightly different (slower) culture at 2% bulk equivalent.
-
It's very easy and I wouldn't make cheese any other way. It's like making yogurt and then using that instead of a packet of direct set.
-
OK, now this is where I get confused and intimidated- the "2% bulk equivalent" type of statements. I need some enlightenment. Do I need to learn algebra again, just to make cheese? LOL!?!
~Laurie
[url]http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2019.msg15259.html#msg15259[/url] ([url]http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2019.msg15259.html#msg15259[/url])
I make mine almost the same way, except slightly different (slower) culture at 2% bulk equivalent.
You can just use my handy dandy chart :)
Bulk equivalent Danisco DVI CHR Hansen DVS CHR Hansen DVS-pellet
0.50% 3.25 DCU per 100 liters 5 U per 100 liters 5 g per 100 liters
1.00% 6.5 DCU per 100 liters 10 U per 100 liters 10 g per 100 liters
1.50% 9.75 DCU per 100 liters 15 U per 100 liters 15 g per 100 liters
2.00% 13 DCU per 100 liters 20 U per 100 liters 20 g per 100 liters
I have other equivalencies, like for Cargill, but I doubt anyone here uses Cargill pellets.
-
Let's say you are making 2 gallons of cheese (or yogurt).
2 gallons = 256 ounces
...so...
2% of 256 is 5.12 ounces.
So you would use 5.12 ounces of a mother culture to add to your milk
-
I've been scared off from the "mother culture" process, because it's sounded too complicated. If I ever go commercial, as I hope to, I'll have to learn how to do it this way before I start making/selling commercial quantities.
The way you describe it, it sounds much more simple than what I've read in books :-) Thanks!
It's very easy and I wouldn't make cheese any other way. It's like making yogurt and then using that instead of a packet of direct set.
-
Thanks linuxboy! Thanks! I'm going to save this handy dandy chart of yours!
~Laurie
-
This is exactly what I needed... are you a teacher? ;) It's like a "story problem" from elementary school...
My brain can accept this and make sense out of it LOL
Thanks very much, you knew just what I needed to get my head around it.
~Laurie
Let's say you are making 2 gallons of cheese (or yogurt).
2 gallons = 256 ounces
...so...
2% of 256 is 5.12 ounces.
So you would use 5.12 ounces of a mother culture to add to your milk
-
Ignore most of what you read, it's probably about forward culturing mother culture (this is done in Europe). Mother culture, as we talk about it here, is just a pre-ripened quantity of milk. You still use DVS powder but you just make up a quantity (1.5-2%) of the total volume before hand and let it get very low in pH (i.e. lots of starter activity). Omnce you add that quantity to your vat the starter rapidly, and most importantly consistently, reduces your vat pH. It beats adding the DVS to the vat and waiting around for target pHs.
-
Also, if you don't have a pH meter, just wait 16-24 hours. For meso culture that doesn't produce CO2 (no diacetylactis or leuconostoc), culture the mother at 86F. For meso culture that does produce CO2, culture at 72-74F. For thermo, it depends on if it has S thermophilus or not. If it does, culture at 104F. If it doesn't, say if it's a pure LH, you can go higher, to 110F. Use a 4-5% bulk equivalent of DVI culture as the seed for the mother. Practically, this is something like 1/16 tsp per gallon of milk. Meaning if you're trying to make enough mother culture for a typical home batch of 4-5 gallons, you don't need to make very much and you use very little DVI powder, maybe a pint of mother starter and just a pinch of culture, and you usually don't even need to use all of that pint for 4-5 gallons..
Also, use nonfat or skim milk and boil first to sterilize. It's like making yogurt, like Francois said. If you want to be really scientific, add enough dry milk to get to 10-11% protein. This will increase the buffers and let you almost double the amount of viable culture. But if you do this, be consistent with all your starter amounts and media.
IMHO, this produces a superior cheese with less hassle. My pH and time schedules are better when I don't wait for DVI to wake up. Also, it's easier to over or underdose with DVI culture when making small batches, so there's more inconsistency. Meaning with a mother, you can be more exact in your initial bacterial inoculation amounts, and this helps with consistency.
-
Margaret Morris recommends using nonfat dry milk as a base.
-
I'm new here please tell me where do I find Francois Crottin recipe?
-
Hi Lee,
Here's a link to the page where you'll find the recipe, http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2019.msg15259.html#msg15259 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2019.msg15259.html#msg15259) and welcome! - I'm very new here too, so it feels odd to say "welcome" LOL, but anyway, you'll find volumes of priceless help and information here :-)
~Laurie
I'm new here please tell me where do I find Francois Crottin recipe?
-
You have to use skim or non fat milk, otherwise you gut a solid block of curd.
-
I set out one of my crottins to come to room temp this evening, it was excellent in my opinion but definitely more toward a Camembert or Brie type cheese compared to the Crottin de Chavignol that I got from Murray's. Completely different taste and texture. Also the one I got from Murray's really had no rind at all to speak of. In any event, this one is really delicious, I'm going to let the rest of them age a bit longer.
-
Crottin doesn't use penicillum traditionally. It's usually PLA, PLA+geo, or one of the FAA ripening mixes from Cargill texturizing, or a custom blend. Geo should be the predominant mold and then yeast/micrococci/b linens adds some depth and aroma.
-
I'm going to try Yoav's recipe next- excited to try another formula. The Crottin from Murray's tastes like wine, not sure which ingredient gives it that essence, but it's wonderful. I am crazy about these little cheeses I made with Francois' recipe though, and will definitely make more of them. In fact I'm buying another wine fridge tomorrow so I can mass produce them LOL. Thanks for the info :-)
~Laurie
crottin doesn't use candidum traditionally. It's usually PLA, PLA+geo, or one of the FAA ripening mixes from Cargill texturizing, or a custom blend. Geo should be the predominant mold and then yeast/micrococci/b linens adds some depth and aroma.