CheeseForum.org ยป Forum
GENERAL CHEESE MAKING BOARDS (Specific Cheese Making in Boards above) => INGREDIENTS - Everything Else => Topic started by: wharris on November 29, 2008, 05:55:05 PM
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I have noticed that most cheese recipes (except for those in the colby and cheddar families) rarely call for the addition of annatto. I have made several recipes of havarti (http://www.ehow.com/how_4425268_make-havarti-cheese.html), and gouda, and they are VERY white.
I just got back from the store, and picked up several high-end gouda cheeses. (for research only..... )
(Beemster (http://www.beemster.us/)). They all seem to list annatto in their ingredients.
I am not sure what everyone else's thoughts are, but from this point on, I plan to add just enough annatto to give my gouda a light cream color.
Thoughts?
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From what I have read, annatto is for colour only and does not add any flavour, and is to be used at your own discretion. My book says that it can be added at a rate ranging from .5ml per 10lt up to 5ml per 10lt for a deep red colour and added with the culture.
Go for it, and see what you get.
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I've seen Annatto (http://cheeseforum.org/Glossary.htm#Annatto) in powdered form in local Mexican oriented Fiesta Grocery store but have yet to try it, and while the colouring is psychological I think it works and also enables some variety in colour. FYI I visited a Beemster retail store while in NL and posted some pics here (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,48.msg100.html#msg100).
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This adds no real value to the discussion, but I happened to snap a picture of my son adding annatto to this morning's cheddar production.
(http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pG-0-N7xooAjNPFucdJ7YrL-3xV9XI_41fc04mV31jeUhBPXdQKNNHrRrnoRhluyQ)
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Hey great to see the next generation getting into the act. Some of my daughters are just beginning to express interest, and my eldest son (22) was reading my cheese book the other day, and said, "lot of interesting information in there hey!"
So I live in hope.
I was also going to add that I think liquid annatto would be easier to incorporate than powdered.
Keep the photo's coming, I love them.
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Hi guys,
I've been using liquid Annatto in any recipe where a yellow color is desirable.
I buy mine from The Dairy Connection and it really is a nice product.
Previously I purchased from leeners and found it to be a really weak product. You are only supposed to add about two to three drops per gallon of milk but I saw absolutely no color change following this procedure.
It may be that I simply got a bad bottle or I might possibly could have been using it wrong. Regardless, I have had great success using the Annatto I bought from the above listed source.
Their double strength Annatto works perfectly. I typically use about 1/16 tsp. per two gallon batch and get a really nice orange/yellow color. I also bought a pint of this product for just a little more than a two ounce bottle on the other site.
I have this thing about eating things that don't look as they should.
If I'm eating a cheddar I really need it to be yellow.
I remember a few years ago, there was this green ketchup that became popular in the states. My kids loved it, but I couldn't go near it.
I tasted it once and have to say that it tasted the same as regular red ketchup. My problem was dipping a perfectly good french fry in something that looked so nasty.
Even though it might not be totally natural, the cheese I've always eaten has a yellow color (with some exceptions). Because of that, I want my cheese to be the same.
Oh, one more thing....
From what I've read, certain milk from certain cows at certain times of the year, did produce a nice yellow/orange color. The quality of the milk, used, could be judged from the finished cheese color.
Now it would be really nice to be able to produce a natural yellow color to my cheese from my milk source but since mine comes from the local IGA store, I don't see that as an option. Becasue of that, Annatto is the answer.
Besides, I got really tired of hearing my kids say "Why is your cheese WHITE?!?" :(
Dave
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Like, I totally agree although I love Tillamook Cheddar I can't eat their white cheddar, it's just weird.
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Hey guys.
I'm a bit new to everything, and I recently bought some annatto and have attempted to use it in cheddar making. The directions on the bottle and in the recipe both say to use two drops dissolved in a bit of water to every gallon of milk.
Is this right? When I did this and mixed it in, I only noticed the slightest change in color. Does the color get deeper with age? It's one of the few moments when I've been making cheese where I've been puzzled for days. I made a second cheddar tonight (well, it's still pressing) and probably used a milliliter or so of the annatto to two gallons of milk to see if anything would turn out different. The curd is now an off-white but it definitely doesn't resemble the yellow in any cheddar I'm used to.
Anyway, just hope someone can steer me to the right answer. Thanks.
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Carter, where is yours from?
I also just ordered some and a bunch of other kit from CheeseMaking.com, will let you know how good it is.
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Well, my understanding is that the color attaches itself to the fat in the curd. It will be very diluted during ripening. You should, however, see a concentration of the color after you separate the whey and work with the curd only. (milling, pressing)
I add 4-5 drops per gallon for my cheddars. I like a deep rich yellow. (just a preference)
I add 1-2 drops per gallon for my Havarti or Goudas for a slight creamy color.
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Mine's from the cheesemaker.com.
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Carter thanks, sorry I miss typed, I meant to ask marty215 as his was the post that had very little color effect.
marty, where did you get yours?
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I got mine from a local store that sells brewery supplies but they also stock a few cheesemaking supplies; they get all of their stuff from www.cheesemaking.com so it should be a reasonable quality product, right? Or ought to be at least. The liquid itself has a very deep color but when I added it last I really noticed very little change in the color.
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Marty it doesn't change the color much during the making. It dies the fat so when the whey is removed it will have a deeper color.
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Its sort of an orange colour when the whey is removed and gets darker when it dries out.
Oh and it changes the whey too, I made some ricotta out of whey the other day and it was orange.
Al
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My Annatto finally came in from CheeseMaking.com:
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Lucky, they sent you a pen too.
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I keep a stack of latex Gloves and aprons around when hanldling Annatto. Somehow, i seem to get that everywhere. Oh, and I keep the bottle in its own zip lock bag.
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Wayne, I certainly second your apron and glove idea. First time I used Annatto I ended up looking like an Umpa Lumpa!
(http://www.jluix.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/umpa.jpg)
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Cartierusm thanks for that little bit of info. The last cheddar I made is drying right now and I've noticed it seems to be getting a bit of a color as it's aging.
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I think Carter plagiarized some really cool guy.
;)
Well, my understanding is that the color attaches itself to the fat in the curd. It will be very diluted during ripening. You should, however, see a concentration of the color after you separate the whey and work with the curd only. (milling, pressing)
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I probably did, but I won't admit anything. But it's common knowledge every second grader knows about annatto clinging to fat, its what they teach in school.
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LOL!
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Hi, I know this is a late post to this thread, but I'm gonna do it anyway...the addition of color by annatto is influenced by a lot of things. Yes, it does get darker when you separate the curd from the whey, and yes it does deepen with age of the cheese since (all other things being equal) as the cheese ages, it dries slightly, which means it contracts and therefore you have the same amount of color in a smaller package. This last is because usually the cheese gets more acidic as all the remaining lactose is eaten by the bacteria, and annatto responds by getting darker (kind of like the phenopthalien dye in acid test-kits changes color depending on how basic/acidic the solution is)
Hope that all made sense!
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Would you use water soluble annatto or oil soluble annatto for making cheeses? I notice there are 2 different ones out there..?
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Water soluble annatto is for coloring and adds no flavor. It's is used to colot cheese butter and other foods.
Annatto oil is used for cooking and does add flavor. It's used in a lot a Chinese sausages and I believe South American dishes.
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Has anyone seen the French Mimolette with the Annatto colouring. I think they went a bit mad as it almost glows.
(http://www.imgspark.com/image/view/FineFoodsDeli/544763/)
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I have, and have always thought the same thing.