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GENERAL BOARDS => DAIRY FARM - Animals => Topic started by: pamaples on June 23, 2009, 12:12:50 AM

Title: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: pamaples on June 23, 2009, 12:12:50 AM
Hey, I've read lots of posts and didn't find my answer so, how often does one need to "freshen" a goat? Do they need bred every year? Or every two? I always had cows before, Vaca chiquitas are new to me.

Pam
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: goat lady on June 24, 2009, 12:51:13 AM
I have had a few goats milk 2 years but their milk production is not much the 2nd year I have found that breeding yearly gives better milk production I  breed a couple late so I have fresh milk for the house through the winter .
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: FRANCOIS on June 24, 2009, 12:54:49 AM
Once per year, unless you have miniatures.  Breed them on the second cycle with a live buck, wait 4 months and dry off, kid and allow to nurse for 1 month.  this gives you a 10 month lactation cycle which is standard in the US.  Some goats can skip a cycle but it's generally not the best milk for cheese making.
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: pamaples on June 24, 2009, 02:44:27 AM
Thanks! I only have one goat now but am getting another milker in a month. I like the idea of staggered breeding. Uh, Francois, at the risk of sounding ignorant, what is 'second cycle'?
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: homeacremom on June 24, 2009, 05:32:54 PM
It's fascinating to look at the test results for herds with goats on extended lactations. The milk decreases as the breeding season and winter start and the milk components look like end of lactation numbers. If the does are well cared for they continue to produce steadily. Certain lines can do this easily and others not at all. By spring when they would normally have freshened, production increases and the milk component numbers start looking like early to mid lactation milk.

Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: FRANCOIS on June 24, 2009, 08:01:08 PM
Estrus cycle.  Mine would come into heat August/September and I'd log it then get them the next month (usually 24-28 days after).  That way everyone was bred early and I could get everyone kidded allat once, out of the way and milking in the Spring. 
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: Ariel301 on June 25, 2009, 12:29:27 AM
Quote
I like the idea of staggered breeding

Can that be done in dairy goats? I thought they only went into heat in the fall.
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: pamaples on June 25, 2009, 01:33:56 AM
Ya know, I don't really know. Goat lady says she breeds a few of hers late in order to have milk all year. I like that idea.

I bought three meat goats in the spring and had no notion of milking until later in the fall when someone suggested I try it. So I did. My girls showed no sigh of estrus whatsoever even with a buck very close next door. I put the neighbors buck in there with them, and it took them about a 10 days to start showing signs of being interested in each other. After he lost interest a couple of weeks later I sent him home and we had 4 kids in the spring. My point is Maybe they only need to smell the buck to start into estrus, I don't know. It seemed that way. Could have been just good timing though?

H.A.M. that is very interestion.
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: Ariel301 on June 25, 2009, 02:32:39 AM
Interesting. We will see if ours start to come into heat with the buck living next door to them. We didn't have a buck of our own until this spring when we were gifted with a 12 hour old orphaned Alpine buck. He's a little over two months old now and showing plenty of interest in the ladies, but they don't think much of him yet. It would be great if we could get staggered breedings; I like the idea too.
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: susanne on August 28, 2009, 09:02:15 PM
depending on breed, goats can be bred year round.
i like to have winter milk and have does due in twoo weeks and again in december. next kidding is planned for february/march.
this works very well here



Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: goatherdess on August 29, 2009, 01:52:15 AM
We are breeding our heaviest goat in Nov. and plan to milk her through Feb. Meanwhile, we have a goat we plan to breed as soon as possible in Sept. so she will give birth in Feb. just as the other is drying off. Hopefully, there will be only a couple of milkless weeks for us this year.
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: pamaples on August 30, 2009, 01:29:26 AM
HI Susanne, I have come to find out that my particular goats can breed year round. The neighbor's buck got into my pasture earlier this summer and, well, guess what. That's right, all does pregnant here. In fact, I think they will give birth in November or December. That's not very kind weather for little ones, but I will make them a warm place.

Another question, just as dumb as the first one: I have never tasted "goaty tasting" goat milk. My girls give really great tasting milk that, frankly, if I didn't know it was goat milk, I couldn't tell. If I buy a "real" dairy goat, will the milk taste different? stronger? goaty? What they eat probably effects the way the milk tastes. They have access to pasture and I feed alfalfa only, and apples when I have them. They get a ration of 4-way sweet feed when they are being milked. Any dairy goat I buy would be fed the same way.

Thanks, Pam
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: susanne on September 13, 2009, 01:21:08 AM
pam the only dump question is the one that is not asked ;)
i just had three does that kidded a couple of days ago and one that might go tomorrow or monday.
depending where you are located, winter kids seem to grow much better as there is less parasite problem.
there are some breeds for example the toggenburg, that are bred for the strong tasing milk for cheese making. some prevere this taste.
the nubian milk  from my does doesn't taste goaty either. just sweet and very rich milk.
a lot depends on milking technic and cooling the milk. if you have good tasting milk now, you will have this from your dairy doe too ;)
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: siegfriedw on September 14, 2009, 05:57:23 PM
I know of some really great dairy lines that have milked thru for 3 years..but you need to have a real good doe for this. Otherwise you risk having one that only milks a quart or two (or less) and have to wait til the following fall to freshen her.
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: susanne on September 14, 2009, 09:01:50 PM
or you have nubian that bred year round. if they don't have enough, theycan still be bred for fall ;)
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: pamaples on September 15, 2009, 12:58:52 AM
I like that; staggered breeding; milk year round, Yippie!
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: cmharris6002 on September 15, 2009, 01:03:46 AM
In the past I have staggered breeding to milk year round. Now I like to take the holidays off and have more family time. I milk 300 days a year and am dry from mid November to mid January.

Christy
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 15, 2009, 01:11:46 AM
Well you need a break sometime!
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: susanne on September 15, 2009, 04:08:51 AM
i'm milking the fourth year through now. break? i want the milk ;)
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: cmharris6002 on September 15, 2009, 10:19:48 AM
How many are you milking at any given time Susanne?

Christy
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: pamaples on September 15, 2009, 01:22:04 PM
Yeah, that's just it. I like the milk year round and I am only milking 2 or 3 goats at a time. My family is grown and my need for milk, yogurt, and cheese is not that great any more. I do know people who will buy  my milk and fresh cheese anytime I say I have extra, but I don't want to go into a large scale production. I have enough irons in the fire.
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: susanne on September 15, 2009, 08:57:05 PM
i'm milking about eight but the number will eventually increase.
i think it is more like a lifestyle i choose. i have some people that got a goat share and they are happy to get fresh milk year round too. i'm working towards not have the does freshen every year as raising the kids is a lot of work i could be without ;)
at the same time, i can not bring it over me to see those little things as a waste product.
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 15, 2009, 09:19:42 PM
I have a dunb question that just poped into my head to add to the pot here. I grew up milking cows but never a goat. I guess any goats we had were boys I don't even remember them having teats. Any any case do goats have four teats like a cow? Or do they have two?  ???
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: FRANCOIS on September 15, 2009, 09:24:53 PM
two.
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 15, 2009, 09:36:49 PM
Thanks Francois I don't know why that suddenly became important to know. Dad would probably have slapped me upside the head for asking such a dumb question.
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: pamaples on September 15, 2009, 10:16:28 PM
Susanne, we are not commercial and we have always let the mom's raise their own kids. When they are old enough we separate them at night, milk the mommas in the morning, then let the kids out. We only milk once a day at first and start out separating the kids 2 then 3 days a week then increase. Later, when the kids are old enough to sell, they are weaned and sold and then we milk twice a day. Granted, this is subsistence milking, but it has worked for time immemorial for us.
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: cmharris6002 on September 15, 2009, 11:24:45 PM
We bottle feed. So far all of my kids have been reserved before birth and picked up at our farm when they are a week old. When I have extra bucks I sell them for $25/ea on craigslist.

I don't keep many kids back for my herd because I want to stay small. I always tell myself that I should milk through then I get a new buck and want all the does bred which means kids again :-\

Christy
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 15, 2009, 11:30:32 PM
Does an older goat give better milk than a younger one?
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: susanne on September 16, 2009, 12:20:31 AM
yes, goats have normally two teats, the buck too ;)
if the goat is a bit older, she will have more milk. better quality?? i don't know.
i just need to keep some of the kids to see if a breeding works. i like playing with genes ;)
as a seed stock breeder, i can not afford to dam raise the kids. i would not get the money i get now when i sell my animals.
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: cmharris6002 on September 16, 2009, 12:50:35 AM
I agree with Susanne, older does give more milk but not 'better' milk.

My stock comes from 'Top Ten Breed Leaders' in butterfat, protein, and production, that way I know my does are genetically geared to produce lots of high quality milk but feed and husbandry also play a major role in milk quality.

Christy
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: DeejayDebi on September 16, 2009, 01:31:59 AM
I thought I remembered in cows the first few breeding didn't produce as good as later years. Maybe it was just the amount not the quality.
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: pamaples on September 16, 2009, 03:31:10 AM
So far all of my kids have been reserved before birth and picked up at our farm when they are a week old. When I have extra bucks I sell them for $25/ea on craigslist.

Nice!
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: susanne on September 16, 2009, 04:13:32 AM
christy i would love to see some of your goats.
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: cmharris6002 on September 16, 2009, 10:21:39 AM
Susanne, I am sooo bad about getting pics which is why I don't have a web site and do local sales. My foundation stock if from Sara Koen-Walberg blissberry.com (http://blissberry.com) I bought Romance (http://www.blissberry.com/romance.html) who was #8 on the Top Ten list last year and I have daughters out of Antigua (http://www.blissberry.com/tiggy.html), Robin (http://www.blissberry.com/robin.html), Fashion Show (http://www.blissberry.com/fashion.html), and Tang (http://www.blissberry.com/tang.html). I have a Jr. buck out of Topaz (http://www.blissberry.com/topaz.html) and my Sr. buck  (http://www.adgagenetics.org/PedigreePrint.aspx?RegNumber=N001427353) is line bred on At Your Service. I have some nice 'no-name' does too that appraised 87,88,89 last year with V and E udders. Maybe I'll get some pics this spring :)

Christy
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: susanne on September 16, 2009, 01:46:03 PM
that sounds wonderful christy. i'm planning to use ACE A.I this fall.
are your girls milking as good as the production leader?

sorry for hitch hiking the thread
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: cmharris6002 on September 16, 2009, 02:02:42 PM
Yes, they are milking up a storm just like their dams and can be difficult to dry up. Sara has mentored me and helped me tweak things to get full genetic potential out of my girls. She has done a lovely job getting E udders that hold up over time AND excel in milk production. She had 8 of the Top Ten Breed Leaders last year :o
 
I hope ACE Does as well for you as he has for me!! You have such a beautiful herd :D

Christy
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: susanne on September 16, 2009, 04:15:50 PM
thank you for the compliment christy.
i'm in kansas this weekend. i wish i would have more time for a visit ;)
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: cmharris6002 on September 16, 2009, 05:20:14 PM
Oh, I would love to meet with you!!! If not this time maybe another time. Do you come to Kansas often?

Christy
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: susanne on September 16, 2009, 05:38:23 PM
this would be the first time. i'm visiting with gene beck from hyland nubians to pick up some semen ;) he has lots of saada animals too.
i'm sure this will not be the last time to go in this direction ;)
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: cmharris6002 on September 16, 2009, 06:20:08 PM
How exciting!! That should work really well with your lines :) He is way south of me.

Christy
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: siegfriedw on September 17, 2009, 01:24:08 AM
"I have some nice 'no-name' does too that appraised 87,88,89 last year with V and E udders. Maybe I'll get some pics this spring"

Any goat in the high 80s on LA is VERY GOOD!
Title: Re: Goats' - Freshening
Post by: Teremc on May 02, 2012, 05:30:27 PM
We are new to goats and milking.  We have been buying goat milk to feed our bum lambs and they have done very well on it so are thinking of getting a milking goat for next season.  In the mean time I was given an older doe,Betty, who is 3 or 4 years old.  She hasnt had a kid in the two years she was owned by the person I got her from, however she has a large udder and has milk when you squeeze.  How is this possible?  I had someone tell me that goats dont need to be bred to have milk.  This seems very strange to me.  Could Betty still have milk from that long ago?  I would have thought she would have dried up by now.  What is "freshening" and why do you do it?

Dumb questions sorry