CheeseForum.org ยป Forum
CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Rennet Surface White Mold (Penicillium candidum) Ripened => Topic started by: Tea on July 27, 2008, 09:27:40 PM
-
Here is the recipe that I used to make brie yesterday.
10lt milk
200ml Type B starter
1/10th tsp white mould spore
.5ml liquid rennet per 2ltr
Heat milk to setting temp of 32c and add starter and spore powder. Stir in well and allow to stand for 60-90 minutes.
Add rennet and stir in well for at least 1 minute. Let curd to set for 30-35 minutes, maintaining temperature until the addition of warm water.
Cut curd into 2cm cubes.
Allow to stand 5 minutes.
Turn over all the curd gently once.
Repeat this twice at 10 minutes intervals.
Drain off 1/3 of the whey and replace with boiled water cooled to 35c.
After 10 minutes turn the curd again.
Drain off some of the whey and pour the curd into 20cm hoops which are in lined draining trays.
Invert hoops at the 10min, 1/2 hour, then 3,5,8 hour marks.
Leave over night.
Prepare a 20% brine solution and put in fridge to chill.
Next morning add a speck of spore powder to the brine and brine for 2 1/2 hours turning half way through for an even brining.
Remove from the brine and dry on a wire rack for 24 hours before putting the cheese into a humid environment at 11 - 15c and store for 8-10 days.
Hopefully the cheese will be fully covered in mould.
Wrap the cheese and store for another 1-2 weeks at 11-15c. They should be ready to eat in 3-6 weeks after making.
-
Here is my attempt so far. 10 ltr made enough for two cheese, and as I only had 1 big hoop, the rest went into the camembert baskets. The biggest problem I had was turning the large hoop evenly. I was flipping with the addition of another tray placed on top of the hoop, but because the cheese was so soft, it would smoosh out of shape sometimes during turning. So the final result, is a cheese that is a little lopsided.
The first pic, shows the curd set at first turn.
Second is the cheese in the hoop and baskets and how I cover them for easier turning.
The third is the large hoop in the brine.
-
These photo's show how the larger brie is out of shape from turning. The next is the smaller brie brining. I only left them in for an hour. They have now dried for almost 24 hours, and today will go into the same container that I had the camembert for their humid environment. SO lets how everything goes well from here.
-
Tea, I always understood that Camember & Brie were very similar, just originated from slightly different towns in France and of course Camemberts are small thin wheels and Bries normally large thin wheels.
But I see that your two recipes are slightly different with Brie being more scaled by boiling water and Camembert being more cooked at longer albeit lower temperature.
I also, see your naming of starter cultures from your Australian supplier (http://www.cheeselinks.com.au/starters.html) is different than what we can get here.
Any more info on the package as to what is in the "Type B" that you used in this Brie vs the "Type E" that you used in your Camemberts (the website doesn't say much)? I've built a webpage on manufactured cultures (http://cheeseforum.org/Making/Culture_Manufacturers_Products.htm) and would like to add any details you have. Thanks.
-
Cheese Head, in the section "Cheesemaking Discussions" you started a thread entitled "Tea's Type A culture" or something similar. In there I give you the technical names of each of the cultures that I use. I think I didn't add all the strains that were in the Type C culture, as it seemed to go on forever, but I can update that if you want, and you can transfer the information to the page that you have set up for such information.
HTH
-
Thanks, sorry, forgot, John.
-
John in regards, camembert and brie being the same, I too also thought that.
In my book, the original camembert (which I am going to try next) says that either Type A or B can be used, it is the modern camembert that used the Type E. The Brie of course used the B culture.
I know that the curd ended up being much softer for the brie than for the camembert, which I am wondering if it was my handling of the camembert that wasn't right, which is why it was so hard to turn the large brie hoop successfully.
Also the addition of the cooled boiled water in the brie was an optional step, but I thought it would be interesting to do it and see what happened. I think gouda is the only other cheese that I have ever used heated water like that before.
-
OK, thanks, wish I had your book, I've searched for it here in North America but no luck.
When I made my Camambert #3 using your recipe, I was very surprised at the small volume of curds when I put them in the hoops. They had really cooked down sitting in that hot whey for so long compared to my recipe. Same, Gouda is th only cheese that I've added hot water like that.
I have tough time turning small camembert hoops and getting the curds to drop straight, must have been much harder with your larger but still thin and delicate Brie!
-
Checked and turned these yesterday. Not sure of the smell, it could just be the mould starting to grow. I hope so. Looks a little different compaired to how the camembert started out but we will wait and see.
Will update with further pics, good or bad.
-
Ok here is an update on the brie, and some things not to do next time. As I used double the amount of milk to make the brie than I did the camembert I ended up with too many cheese to fit in the control humidity container that I use, (what was I thinking). So I decided to layer the cheese with a piece of silicone baking paper. This unfortunately seemed to retain moisture, and also didn't allow for the normal growth of mould.
So I removed the baking paper and rearranged the cheese again, but some were still overlaping each other and touching.
When I next went to turn, the big brie which had been moist from the paper, stuck to the mat, and when turning it, tore off alot of the mould. Same with the smaller cheeses even to the point of pulling off cheese from the round that it was touching.
Also it doesn't look like mould is going to grow successfully were the paper was originally touching.
I have wrapped them now, and will wait another week or so before trying. Will be interesting to see how this has compromised the cheese.
-
Tea, your Brie's did look like they had beautiful mould, sad that tore off, if you hadn't wrapped wouldn't the mold have re-grown?
On the Camembert's I've made I haven't wrapped, just left in very high humidity freezer Cheese Cave while on holiday right now.
I think I read that this is OK, wrapping is not required, unless put into lower humidity environment then need it. Best source I've seen here in US is this special Camembert paper (http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/p/205-9-7-8-Sq-Cheese-Wrap-for-Mold-Ripened-or-Soft-Cheeses.html).
Is it needed and if so are you using this or cellophane type wrap? Thanks.
-
These photo's were take about 5 days ago and the cheeses have been turned twice since then. It doesn't look like the mould is growing back, which is why I decided to take them out of the humidity, wrap and store.
I am using a cello wrap mainly because the special wraps that I purchased are too small to cover the cheese properly.
I noticed yesterday that one of the rounds has a white mould growing, but doesn't look right. I am beginning to think that it might be compromised. So I am watching it closely.
-
I checked them again yesterday, and much to my surprised there does seem to be a section of new mould growth on one cheese. Surprise surprise. I will watch it and see how it grows.
-
I decided to open one of these last night as there is a strong smell of cheese in my cave. WHile it is difficult to know whether these have been compromised with another mould, having only tasted store bought brie, the flavour is much stronger than with the camembert, almost too strong.
It looks like the cheese is starting to go gooey, and even picking them up, the sides are squishy. but not oozing cheese.
So this is what I found when I cut into them.
Makes me want to have another go at the camembert and see if I can get that right.
Will wait another week before opening another one and see it the rest of the cheese has gone gooey. Still don't understand that process yet.
-
Just updating this thread. If you notice in the above pics, the outside of the cheeses were soft and gooey. After another week, 10 days maturing, they are now soft probably half way to the middle of the cheese. The only thing that is keeping them together is the outer harder crust of the cheese. Even the large wheel, is soft in section a couple of inches in from the edge. However the cheese doesn't seem to look "right", and I am not sure if that is because the mould didn't form properly, or they have indeed been compromised. The taste and smell is definately stronger that I expected.
Will take some photo's and see if someone may be able to help me trouble shoot.
-
Ok you should be able to see how the cheese has become softer since the last pics.
Any help/advice most welcome.
-
Tea, I read somewhere that camembert/brie is supposed to ripen from the outside in from the white mold and with it getting progressively softer from the outside in. But yours looks more like softer on the edges first, my first batch was a little like that. It's only supposed to be oozy at room temp, not runny. When you say the taste is very stong, is that in a nice brie way or different taste? Also, maybe next time slightly dryer curds before putting in hoops or spend longer in hoops to get lower moisture content. Remember my second camembert with cheese running out the side and it deflating, I think the problem was still too moist.
-
Friday week ago I did another 5lt Brie so that I could get one round to fit the mould and the humidity control container.
Here ir is out of the humid envionment and about to be wrapped for another week or 2.
So far this one looks and smells good, apart from where I caught it getting it out of the mould and ripped off a bit of cheese.
-
Friday week ago I did another 5lt Brie so that I could get one round to fit the mould and the humidity control container.
Here ir is out of the humid envionment and about to be wrapped for another week or 2.
So far this one looks and smells good, apart from where I caught it getting it out of the mould and ripped off a bit of cheese.
Tea, I would like to make a brie. How did this eventually turn out?
-
Hi Lady, well I have learnt a lot from these batches. My biggest problem is being able to keep the cheese at a cool enough temp during maturing, and have resorted to putting them in the fridge to ripen, which of course slows the process down a little, but the last batch that I did this way was the best I have done so far.
I am tossing up making another batch and keeping them for the fridge whole process and see what happens.
Give it a go, if nothing else you will get to watch white mould grow and learn what ammonia cheese smells like. ;D