CheeseForum.org ยป Forum

CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Washed Rind & Smear Ripened => Topic started by: JimSteel on February 12, 2014, 12:53:26 AM

Title: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: JimSteel on February 12, 2014, 12:53:26 AM
So I made a Muenster on the same day JeffHamm did.  Total coincidence.  He encouraged me to post my make and forthcoming procedures.  I'm quite excited to see how these Mu(e)nsters all turn out, John's included.  I'm at a great disadvantage with my P-H milk, but have high hopes.

Munster
4L Pasteurize Homogenized whole milk.
1/8tsp meso cultures
1/16tsp B. Linens
CaCl, I just toss some in...
Rennet (1.25ml double strength veg rennet)
1tsp non-iodized kosher salt(for rind)
brine for washing (will be 5% concentration, with a pinch of B. linens)

1)   Raise to 32C, add CaCl, innoculate with cultures.
2)   5 minutes for cultures to set.  Stir
3)   Add rennet, diluted in 1/4cup water
4)   40 minutes for rennet to set (hold at 32C)
5)   Cut to 1.5cm cubes
6)   Rest 5 mins, stir slightly, rest 5 mins (need to be careful with P-H milk)
7)   Raise curds to 38C over 25 minutes (that's just over 1 degree per 5 minutes)
8)   Cover and rest, 10 mins
9)   Drain whey, pour into cloth lined collander
10)   Drain 30 minutes (9:57 - 10:27)
11)   Place in mold without cloth.
12)   flip every 20-30 minutes. after 5 flips, leave it for 24 hours. 
13)   Sprinkle each face with 1/2 tsp salt and place in cave.
14)   After 3 days, begin washing cheese.  I usually wash 1 side every day and flip.
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 12, 2014, 01:46:45 AM
Looking good!  A lot of fun when a bunch of us hit upon the same cheese by coincidence.  Must be something in the air - if not now, then there soon will be at least! :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: John@PC on February 12, 2014, 02:43:10 PM
Must be something in the air - if not now, then there soon will be at least! :)
Totally snort-worthy.  I guess great minds stink alike  >:D.
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 12, 2014, 05:29:24 PM
Must be something in the air - if not now, then there soon will be at least! :)
Totally snort-worthy.  I guess great minds stink alike  >:D.

Yes, I've heard the sewer lines run together!

- Jeff
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: JimSteel on February 12, 2014, 09:18:17 PM
Must be something in the air - if not now, then there soon will be at least! :)
Totally snort-worthy.  I guess great minds stink alike  >:D.

Yes, I've heard the sewer lines run together!

- Jeff

You guys have already cheesed up my thread more than I could have ever thought possible...
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: John@PC on February 12, 2014, 10:13:40 PM
Sorry Jim  :-[.  From now on no more cheesy references.  I hope a cheese for you for your 1st Mu(e)nster will help us be forgiven? ::)  It will be interesting to compare the different recipes as time progresses.  I plan to do the same wash schedule that you're using  and will start tomorrow.
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: JimSteel on February 13, 2014, 08:07:35 PM
Washing begins today.  Hopefully my new empire grows quickly.
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: JimSteel on February 23, 2014, 03:24:55 PM
Update.  Been washing the cheese, colour is starting to form.  This picture is a few days old, but today it had a much nicer tone to it.  I am having  a problem with my cheese cave though, it smells like very nasty mold and is imparting that quality on this cheese.  When the time comes I will have to see if it affected the flavour of the cheese or just the rind.

Another issue is these little brown patches that pop up out of no where.  They have no texture and just look like a stain.  I've been scraping them off and washing over them.  I've had three so far.

My third issue is that the cheese may have retained too much whey.  In the early drying/washing stages, the cheese had a very sour smell to it.  Not sure if this is intended for Muenster, but it was very reminiscent of my Limburger make.

Otherwise.... this is going great!!!  :-\
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 23, 2014, 05:53:03 PM
Hmmm, our make protocols are pretty similar.  The only difference seems to be that I stirred and you cooked the curds to expel whey.  My stirring was an addition to what the book says, mostly based upon my cam/brie makes, where just cut and sit curds have generally retained too much whey.

Different strains of b.linens can develop at different speeds and show different colours.  You can add a pinch of b.linens to your brine that you wash with.  I've put a bit in mine.

You might want to give your cave a wipe down with some warm water and soap, then vinegar and water too.  See if you can remove the odd smell.  Are you using ripening boxes?  Do they smell too?  Give them a good clean, including boiling water, etc. 

I'm sure it will come right eventually and turn to gold.  Like some recent sporting competitions. :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: JimSteel on February 23, 2014, 08:42:12 PM
I do put Linens in my brine, I learned to the hard way.  I think a lot of the problem stems from the cave itself.   Humidity can't be maintained well and the temp fluctuates quite a bit.  I was thinking of trying to clean it with borax soon.  I tried cleaning it once before, but not no avail.  I don't know where the smell comes from.  There is nothing visible on any surfaces of the cave, not even excess moisture.  it's like it has become part of the unit...

In a day or two I'll post another picture, should be looking a lot more colourful by then.  Again, the last picture was taken a few days ago.

Thanks Jeff
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: John@PC on February 23, 2014, 09:51:47 PM
Looking good Jim.  Your recipe says you drained your curds in a colander then transferred to a mold without cloth.  I drained (and pressed) mine under the whey so that may explain why my cheese has more moisture retained and more of a wet, stickier surface?   
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: JimSteel on February 24, 2014, 02:01:38 AM
Yeah John, yours looked a lot goopier than mine in your make pictures.  I aimed for more whey expulsion and  I wish I had put a cloth in the mould though, it would have wicked some of the whey.  I also put a decent schmear on at first to seal up the cracks and inclusions that you can see in the first pick. 

Though I must confess, when it was draining in the mould, I put a cutting board on top for pressure... my cheese is actually fairly firm.  Never having eaten a Munster, I'm not actually sure what it should be like.
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: John@PC on February 24, 2014, 11:42:59 PM
Yeah John, yours looked a lot goopier than mine in your make pictures. 
Goopier for sure because my Miracale Whip jar keeled over and I had resuscitate it ::)!  It's turned into a pretty good experiment for several reasons so sometimes you learn more from the rough road than the smooth.

By the way, Jim, from the time I first saw your avatar I've been compelled to fight the urge to do a Hopi dance with Popsicle sticks.  Is there a cheese connection there?  Whether it is or not it is very cool O0!
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: JimSteel on February 25, 2014, 10:08:01 PM
Here's the latest picture.  Colour is starting to come together, but I have a lot of "undesireables" growing on the surface and in the crevices.  The cheese seems quite firm so far, but we shall see in time.  My Port Salut's typically soften quite a bit as they ripen.

John, there is no deeper meaning to the picture, but thanks for thinking such a philosopher of me :P  I found it years ago and have always loved it.
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: John@PC on February 26, 2014, 01:11:43 AM
How do you deal with the "undesirables"?  Continue washing or wait and let the b. linens take full control? 
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: JimSteel on February 26, 2014, 02:53:37 AM
This is my first real scenario with "undesireables"  usually I just keep washing until they get wiped out.  Some funky stuff is going on in my cave though and this cheese in particular has been having some issues.  I had a whole spread of blue mold on the bottom of the cheese this morning that I lightly scraped off and washed over.  Typically, if the surface stays rather moist, molds don't grow too well, but then you get into the realm of strong linens.  That's why I usually wash both sides every day though.

I just can't maintain my humidity, which would be the preferable option.  Prevention rather than reaction.  What's that called.... Proaction?

With my Limburger, continued washing didn't solve the problem though, a surface mold just took hold and wouldn't give in => skin slip issues.
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: JeffHamm on February 26, 2014, 05:02:49 AM
Curiously, as soon as I finished my daily washing and let my munster sit, it too developed blue mould top and bottom face.  I washed it again this am to remove it, and, since I'm planning on cutting this on the weekend, will probably continue to wash until then anyway.  I often have blue mould issues (just lots of them in the air, etc) so I shouldn't be too surprised.   Will the linens were coming along, it's still early days so they can be grown over. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: JimSteel on March 14, 2014, 01:26:56 AM
When disaster strikes!

 I left it out in a semi-open container to get some air since the wheel was a bit too moist.  A few hours later, I returned to this.  The cheese wasn't as ripe as I'd like, but I had no other choice but to eat it.

Results, not very good.  A mix of sourness, B. Linens and unpleasant molds.  The paste was pretty tough and "flaky"

So far, none of the washed rinds that involve putting salt on the surface after pressing - instead of brining - have turned out.

This make was plagued by problems all through the process and it really showed in the finale.  I'll just stick with Port Salut.


Edit:  Forgot to mention that I cubed some of it and cooked it into homemade biscuits, which were quite nice.  The cheese is rather sour and smelly, not something I'd eat straight up, but will work for cooking.

I also do not have a picture of the cut cheese since I was out of town when my father and I sampled it. (Yes, I brought it with me)
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: Al Lewis on March 14, 2014, 02:17:47 AM
Very strange result Jim but not a total loss if you could still enjoy it.  Seems very strange that the crust hardened up like that.  I did two cheeses with b-Linens (Epoisses and a tallegio) and the crust remained relatively thin and penetrated the cheese, although it was very stinky.  Always wanted to try a Muenster but never quite got around to it.  Your experience is a great help in researching it though.  Thaks a million for sharing. :D
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: JeffHamm on March 14, 2014, 02:43:52 AM
That's a shame, and a bit of a surprise too!  The rind seems to have shattered, like cracking a coconut.  You had mentioned the paste smelt sour early in the thread too, so it appears that hasn't gone away.  I would suggest adding some stirring to the protocol, maybe during the cooking phase?  I don't know, that's just a guess since I can't really see anything that looks like it's missing in your protocol.  A cheese to you for venturing into the unknown though. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: JimSteel on March 14, 2014, 03:07:25 PM
Thanks Jeff, and for the suggestions too.  I will not be using them on this cheese however, it is going away for a long time.

The cheese retained too much water for sure, but I think its was probably from improper drying.  My curds actually came out pretty small and tight, but I remember having issues with drainage and drying.

Al: I was definitely surprised to go back downstairs and find the shattering.  I guess my house was a lot drier than I had realized.  Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: jwalker on March 14, 2014, 04:14:25 PM
It's kind of funny , I made my third Reblochon yesterday , and have another aging in the cave , yesterday I took it out of the mini-cave because it seemed a little too slimy , anyway , when I saw that picture , I realized I had forgotten to put it away yesterday and ran out to the shop in a panic expecting to find something much the same.

It was fine though , to my relief. :o

Quote
So far, none of the washed rinds that involve putting salt on the surface after pressing - instead of brining - have turned out.

And as for the salted rinds , I have taken to brining most of my cheeses now , and am not having problems with drying or cracking.



Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: John@PC on March 14, 2014, 11:03:37 PM
I would be inclined to think the "shattering" has to be primarily from the rind drying out due to low %RH.  I learned my lesson when I saw a small crack in my first munster and found my cave had only dropped to 75% for less than a day.  I hope someone else that knows chimes in (and I would defer to Jeff from the make point of view), but maybe the issue is if you wash your rind it (and the paste) retains more moisture, and if you put it in a dryer environment (even if it's for a few hours) the rind can dry quite quickly and shrink.  I went through a period when mine got a little slick, but if you stop washing it should dry up in a few days.
Title: Re: Another 1st Mu(e)nster post?
Post by: JeffHamm on March 14, 2014, 11:42:19 PM
I think John's spot on with the cracking explanation.  This is a very moist cheese, so if left in low RH the rind will quickly shrink and crack.  I think, with it retaining so much moisture during the make, that made it even more dramatic.  Work on whey explusion and I think that will cure the sour taste and the cracking rind.

- Jeff