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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Washed Rind & Smear Ripened => Topic started by: Boofer on July 30, 2012, 02:52:48 AM

Title: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on July 30, 2012, 02:52:48 AM
My month-old Reblochon #3 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9898.msg73668.html#msg73668) was just wrapped up today when I decided I would try to conform to iratherfly's Reblochon Dictum (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9928.0.html).

I tried to stay somewhat true to the spirit of The Dictum, but I did run into some tangential diversions.

Starting pH: 6.61

(Sorry, right off the bat I'm breaking the rules: I didn't use all RAW milk.)
1 gallon Pride & Joy Creamery whole raw milk
1.5 gallons Twin Brook Creamery whole creamline milk
.5 gallon Twin Brook Creamery 2% creamline milk
1 pint Twin Brook Creamery whipping cream

This culture mix has done well for me in the past. The only change is that I didn't use PC here:
1/8 tsp MM100
1/16 tsp TA61
1/16 tsp LH100
1/16 tsp Geo13
1/16 tsp SR3
1/32 tsp KL71
1/2 tsp CACL, in 1/4c distilled water
1/32 tsp Renco dry calf rennet, dissolved in 1/4c cool distilled water

10:05AM Raised milks to 94F, added cultures and CACL
looking for pH6.55

pH seemed to begin dropping almost as soon as the milk was heated or the cultures were added.
10:15 pH6.50, added rennet...pH6.47 (yes, it was dropping while I was adding the rennet)

10:31 flocculation in 16 minutes.

Here I break the rules again and plug in my favored 4x factor rather than the recipe's stated 3x factor. That makes the time to cut in 64 minutes...11:19.

11:19 pH6.40 (This is pretty active/fast culture and/or milk.)
11:20 Cut the curd to 3/4 inch. Rested 5 minutes.
11:28 Began further cutting with whisk closer to 1/4 inch. Rested 5 minutes.

I'm kind of in a race right now to conform to the recipe and not get beaten over the head by the pH rushing for the exits.

I removed 1/2 gallon of whey to make my whey-brine. (Oh-oh, breaking the rules again  ::)... brining instead of dry-salting.)

Then I prepared my four Reblochon moulds with their PlyBan.
I scooped the very soft and wet curds into each of the moulds, wondering if I was going to have too much curd for the moulds I had ready. Wow, the curds mounded up in the moulds, but I was able to use them all.

I then carefully placed the lids on each of the four curd mini-mountains and pushed down gently. Then I was able to place the cutting board on top of all four of them and stack the 15 pounds of weight on top of that. That effectively delivers 3.75 pounds to each mould. (I wouldn't call that a rule violation. 8))

12:30PM I flipped and rewrapped each cheese after 30 minutes. Wheels are very soft and pliable.

1:45PM pH5.70 I flipped and removed PlyBan after another 75 minutes.

3:00PM pH5.36 Time to brine...need to stop the pH freefall.

4:30PM Flipped cheeses in brine.

6:00PM Removed from brine, dried, weighed. Into minicaves and out to Black Cave.

My Black Cave has been cleared of all other cheeses and the controller has been reset to 58F +-1F. It has been running a little warmer than the set temp probably because of the warmer garage temperature.

This should be interesting.  :)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: mjr522 on July 30, 2012, 04:02:20 PM
Boofer--

That looks pretty cool.  I'm always impressed by the cheeses people are making. 

As a side note: I teach an engineering mechanics course on statics, and your comment,

... Then I was able to place the cutting board on top of all four of them and stack the 15 pounds of weight on top of that. That effectively delivers 3.75 pounds to each mould. (I wouldn't call that a rule violation. 8))

sounds like something one of my students would say.  I would reply, "Are you sure?"  ;)  I'd then make them measure the distance from the center of the weights to the center of the cheeses, and if they weren' exactly the same (which is what is required for them all to have 3.75 lbf), I'd make them calculate how much force was on each cheese.  Sometimes, I'm a picky teacher...

Mike
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on July 30, 2012, 06:33:34 PM
Glad I'm far away from my school days now.  ;)

I think the technical term that fits in here is SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess), or...(I used to work for the government, and it would be close enough for them.)

Pardon me while I whip this out...my slide rule, of course!  ::)

Then of course I didn't take into account the weight of the cutting board...or that it was adjusted slightly askew to account for the one slightly-overfilled mould where I wanted to bring more pressure to bear so the lid would fit.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: iratherfly on August 04, 2012, 01:05:36 AM
Coooool!  Interesting stuff. I wonder how it would work out.  You did do a Camembert acidity again Boofer! haha...  If your acid builds up too fast you should probably reduce floc time, not increase it.

However... are you sure your pH meter was working okay?  16 minutes is a bit long for 6.4pH at rennet

Mike, I just calculate weight per square inch. I would totally fail your class  ^-^
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on August 04, 2012, 01:33:14 AM
Never done a Cam but I see your point about reducing the floc if the acidity is racing.

I used the 4x floc because I'm looking for that exquisite gooeyness that your Reblotin pics showed.

What do you mean "16 minutes is a bit long for a 6.4pH at rennet"? My meter seemed to be doing okay.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: iratherfly on August 04, 2012, 04:43:24 AM
The goo comes from including more mesophilic and less thermophilic strains. It's not the quantity of acid that makes it, it's the type of culture and subsequent aging practice.  Creating more acid will give you a more tangy and less milky flavor. It will also cause the lactic bacteria to run out of nutrients faster and will alter the development of the rind. It will take the yeast and geo much longer time to deacidify a surface that is more acidic.

However... are you sure your pH meter was working okay?  16 minutes is a bit long for 6.4pH at rennet
What I meant was... you said your acidity was 6.4pH. My Reblochon formula at that point is 6.55pH and it takes 12-16 minutes to flocculate. At 6.4 it would probably take 7-11 minutes. getting down to 6.4pH so fast sounds suspicious to me... are you sure your pH meter was calibrated ok at that point? Maybe you were at 6.5pH and your meter was not on the up and up?  This would make a lot of sense for your reasonable ripening time and your flocculation time.  What was your starting point? 6.7-6.8pH?

Generally speaking, with many cheeses if you miss a pH point early on but shorten the next stage to meet your pH target, the cheese will meet its future pH targets on time and you can save it.
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on August 04, 2012, 06:23:43 AM
The initial reading of the cold milk was 6.61. It was one of the lowest I've seen. For that reading I take a dribble from each bottle as I add the milk to the kettle. At renneting the reading was 6.50 and then I took another reading just after stirring the rennet in and it was 6.47.

As I mentioned, there were pH points in your recipe that I had trouble hitting. Perhaps if my milk had started at a higher pH level....

We'll see how it fares as time goes on.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: iratherfly on August 04, 2012, 07:56:03 AM
Best thing is to mix all the milks in the pot and then take a sample of the mixed substance.
What pH meter is this?
It's a bit strange that it's at 6.50 and a minute later (I assume you mixed for a minute) it dropped to 6.47.  Most meters take more than a minute to get to the proper material temperature rand calculate something useful.  Anyway, renneting at 6.50 is totally fine for this recipe, not a problem. Flocculating at x4 will work fine too. I am sure it will work out.

Did you put it in "yeasting room" conditions for the first 3-4 days?  Remember to give it the first wash only after it is covered with moccasse and then immediately move it to cave. Cave age it for only 2 weeks and finish it in the fridge - that's the trick to getting it right! I swear.
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on August 04, 2012, 11:58:22 AM
I wasn't entirely sure what a "yeasting room" was. I removed all other cheeses from my Black Cave and adjusted the controller to 60F. That's where they have been in their minicaves. The mocasse (Geo slime) did appear a couple days ago. I washed them, but I left them in there at around 60F. I will go now and adjust the controller back to 51F.

I'll continue washing for the next two weeks and then use that fancy new paper I'll be getting from you to wrap them up and stick them in the regular fridge.

I'm not sure, but I think everything is on track at this point.  8)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: iratherfly on August 05, 2012, 06:57:45 AM
sounds great. You may need to age it shorter time because you let it continue yeasting after the first wash. You need to move it to 50°F-55°F cave immediately following the first wash.  The "yeasting room" is exactly as you understood; simply your cave, turned up to 60°F-65°F for 3-4 days. I am sure this one will turn out great!
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on August 05, 2012, 07:35:10 AM
You may need to age it shorter time because you let it continue yeasting after the first wash.
What happens if it stays in the yeasting too long?

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on August 05, 2012, 02:15:38 PM
Trying to stay on track with iratherfly's newly instituted Reb guidelines....  :)

So far, so good. Geo is blooming nicely and the smell is enticing. The promise of future culinary delight.  8)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: iratherfly on August 05, 2012, 05:19:43 PM
What happens if it stays in the yeasting too long?
If you yeast too long it will develop sort of this bubbly skin and the geo may not grow back once you stop the washing regiment period.  Also, at 60°F the lactic bacteria is acidifying the cheese a lot quicker and you don't want it to run out of food too quickly...

However, your cheese looks beautiful!  Do you have a piece of spruce or similar wood to age it on? It will give it nice traditional aroma and rind development.
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on August 05, 2012, 10:37:08 PM
However, your cheese looks beautiful!  Do you have a piece of spruce or similar wood to age it on? It will give it nice traditional aroma and rind development.
Thanks, Yoav.

So the spruce is really that fundamental to the development of the cheese? I will assume so and begin searching for something suitable tomorrow. Any particular flavor of spruce? White spruce, Adirondack spruce, Blue spruce, Skunk spruce...? I had asked this question and then found a partial answer (from New England Cheesemaking Company) when Googling:

"What kind of wood

In France folks use primarily a wood called Epicea which is the spruce tree group. I have also seen folks including Larch in this group.

Wood and especially pine and fir harvested in the summer will be wet and full of moisture, yeasts, and bacteria that will cause a cheese to age poorly. But harvested in winter this will be drier and more suitable for cheese aging. Some cheese makers such as in the caves at Roquefort will dry the wood for several season before using.

These are some of the woods I have had experience with. If you have used other and would like to comment please contact me jim@cheesemaking.com:

Good

Spruce: is very open surface and a positive aromatic quality from the resins
Larch: is similar to spruce but not as aromatic
Pine: use clear without a lot of knots and resin
Cedar: some folks like this but it can be very aromatic and interfere with natural cheese aromas
Beech: is very tight surface slower to absorb and release moisture
Birch: is similar to beech
Ash: is good and strong and has an open grain structure for seed microbes
Oak: may be fine but is quite heavy to move when cleaning or transporting
Bamboo: is quite neutral

Not So Good

Maple: but this also can cause staining of the cheese

To Avoid

Walnut: will impart an off flavor and stain the cheese
Redwood: will stain the cheese
Teak: may stain and impart an incompatible flavor
Mahogany: may also cause staining and is too heavy
Avoid Exotic woods and woods that stain or leach natural resins. Many of these have been found to produce toxic resins."


-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on August 09, 2012, 10:44:33 PM
Yesterday I grabbed the wife and trekked on up to Seattle to buy some cheese ripening boards. Today I fashioned the rough lumber into a couple boards for my Reblochon recipe and some boards for my medium size Tomme mould (Should I want to age anything on wood in the future.  :))  What am I getting myself into here?

The boards were rough-sawed and I coarse-sanded them down a bit, but not so they're glass-smooth, just so the terroir bacteria have something to latch onto.

Buying the little bit of spruce that I did was a little pricey at $7.35 per board-foot. But it's for the cheese, right? It's all about the cheese.  ::)

-Boofer-


Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on August 10, 2012, 05:44:03 AM
Okay...scrubbed the new boards with coarse salt and running water, then set them out to get a little sun and catch some UV rays.

After that, I installed the boards in the minicaves and put the cheeses in place. Hope this works out okay. It's a little scary out here on the bleeding edge.  :P  :-\

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on August 12, 2012, 10:10:25 PM
The cheeses stuck to the wood the first time I tried to lift them off the spruce boards. It looked to be the Geo growing into the wood fibers much as it has tried to do with the matting they had been on.

By gently easing the wheels back and forth, I was able to dislodge them and proceed with washing them. Per iratherfly's guidance, I have been washing only the side that will not be down in contact with the wood. So far they seem to be coming along nicely after two weeks. Perhaps one more week and then I'll wrap them up and put them in the big fridge for longer aging.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on August 17, 2012, 02:45:42 PM
Boy, in this one minicave the cheeses refuse to be moved from the wood. The Geo grows into the wood fibers and anchors the wheels. Fortunately I was able to nudge them gently enough to get them washed one last time. I'm planning on wrapping them  in cheese paper on Sunday and storing them in the big fridge for several weeks.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: bbracken677 on August 18, 2012, 02:17:40 AM
After reading and seeing your Reb make...and reading the "dictum" (lol) this is definitely going on my make list.

oh so many cheeses and so little time  >:(
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on August 18, 2012, 05:58:57 AM
After reading and seeing your Reb make...and reading the "dictum" (lol) this is definitely going on my make list.

oh so many cheeses and so little time  >:(
Ah, an appreciative fan of fine, dry wit.  ;)

As far as effort in the art of dairy alchemy turning milk into cheese, the Reblochon has to be one of the easiest, hassle-free styles to make. Very protected, rind-wise, from foreign incursions. Rich and satisfying. Adaptable to a variety of food preparations. Table cheese, snack cheese, cooking cheese....

After three tasty previous editions, this fourth effort looks to be decidedly different...more delectable...possibly the best Reblochon I have made yet. The feel of the wheels as I handle them while washing and rubbing the Geo down gives me hope of a Reb genuinely true to the subject line.

I have two types of cheese paper that I will be using. The one I have successfully employed for other white rind and orange (linens) rind cheeses; and a new one recommended by iratherfly. I want to see if either type of paper outperforms the other.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Tiarella on August 18, 2012, 12:13:00 PM
Wow, reading your list of cultures used makes me wonder if you were one of those kids with a chemistry set mixing chemicals and hoping for amazing explosions!  Or maybe you didn't do that then and are remedying that childhood deficit now?  ; )   Maybe we're all mad scientist wannabes?

But anyway, how did you choose all those cultures?  I've tried reading the site list of cultures and it doesn't seem to give the level of info and insight I need to make choices.  Any other favorite info sources you can recommend?  Or is it all about the hours of reading this site?
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: george on August 18, 2012, 01:02:54 PM
Or is it all about the hours of reading this site?

Yep.   :)

There is an awful lot to absorb here - I found the best thing (for me) to do was to pick a cheese that I wanted to make, and go to that particular forum and read EVERY thread, starting with the oldest first.  That way my learning process for the cheese basically mimicked the learning process of the now-old-pros - even if it DID take days to get through all the related threads.  (I think I spent a week getting through the blue threads before I made my first Stilton.)

Yes, it takes a while, but it seems easier to try to absorb one type at a time, rather than skipping everywhere and getting all the tips and tricks for different cheese styles confused.

(Sorry to jump in ahead of ye, Boofer)
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on August 18, 2012, 02:39:02 PM
(Sorry to jump in ahead of ye, Boofer)
My parents always told me "Ladies first..." and thank you, george, for stepping in.  :)

When I found this site back in 2009 there wasn't quite the breadth of info as there is today, but there were still a lot of things to know. You can see evidence of my lack of knowledge and the resulting mistakes I made in some earlier threads. Don't misunderstand me, I'm still learning what I don't know.  ;)

I have bought different cheeses to try to understand what a particular cheese style is all about (taste, smell, texture, rind, etc.) both to broaden my limited cheese palate and to give me some idea of a target I'm trying to hit if I decide to mimic a cheese style. Some of my efforts have been very successful...others, not so much. :(  I am especially thrilled if something turns out well and makes me look forward to it the next time I think about my cheeses.

When I began this adventure I had a few specific cheese styles that I thought would be good to emulate. Others popped into my vision after reading about them in the forum. I now have a handful of styles that I try to focus on improving: Esrom (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9293.0.html), Tomme (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9807.0.html), Fourme d'Ambert (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9508.0.html), Leiden (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9107.0.html), Beaufort (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,6620.0.html), Reblochon (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9997.0.html), Tilsit (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10018.0.html), Maasdam/Jarlsberg (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9667.0.html). You may wonder "But what about Cheddar?" That is an unanswered question at the moment. Ask me after my one (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9548.0.html) and two (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9589.0.html) have aged in another 6-9 months.

These are cheeses I (and sometimes my wife) like to eat and they offer a challenge to my kitchen skills. One of the trends you'll see here in the forum are the numbers that may follow a member's cheese style. I adopted that method for myself to keep track of how many iterations a cheese has gone through. Hopefully, as the number grows, so does my knowledge of how to make that particular cheese and also the quality of the final product. That does not reflect the total number of cheeses I may have made to date (58). The word to keep in mind is repetition. Oh yeah, it helps to keep notes of what you've done so that you can do it again if it seems like Cheese Hall of Fame worthy.

Tiarella, to answer that first wonder of yours...yes, I did have a chemistry set and I almost blew up the house (sorry, folks!). I also had a microscope early on and liked to see pond critters swimming around.  :D  Where I live now precludes me having a garden that grows all manner of delights, so my garden is confined to my caves. Wondrous things grow in there and the deer, rabbits, and birds don't eat everything in sight.  8)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: iratherfly on August 19, 2012, 01:38:23 AM
But anyway, how did you choose all those cultures?  I've tried reading the site list of cultures and it doesn't seem to give the level of info and insight I need to make choices.  Any other favorite info sources you can recommend?  Or is it all about the hours of reading this site?

Tiarella  - did you look at my Reblochon thread? I go through the cultures there and explain the selection. Perhaps this would be a  good resource for you if you are interested in this type of cheese.  See here: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts! (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9928.msg)

Generally speaking, the cultures are just isolated strains of the same lactic bacterium, yeasts and fungi that you find in the traditional version of a cheese. They are harvested in a lab, put to sleep and packed in a bag, so you can for example use them to capture the aromas of the French Savoie, or the presentation of cheese from Andalusia, perhaps the texture of British cheese that is made with an entirely different cow breed, or maybe some flavor elements from the Swiss Alps? And you can do all of this in your very own milk, no matter if you are in New Zealand, Russia, South Aftica or Michigan.

When you set out to make a cheese you want to imagine some of your desired characteristics. This way you can come up with a mix of cultures that will give you roughly what you want. Many of the cultures out there are ready-made mixes that already include several different strains that commonly work together in many cheeses, so when you hear about MM100, Kazu, Flora Danica, MA4002, PLA etc. - these are just popular mixes of commonly used stuff.  In some cases you switch strains a little bit because maybe one is too strong and fast or too slow to grow, or one gets attacked by another.  There are only about 8 major starters across 99% of all cheeses (and you decide which ones to use in order to balance the desired eyes, nuttiness, sharpness, texture stiffness/suppleness, buttery and creamy notes etc.  Honestly, in spite of their lab-like names it's really no more than 8 new spices in your spice cabinet. For rind there are a bit more to know. About 12 major strains would give you most of the rind possibilities you would need. There are a few common types of blue too and a few texture, aging and flavor enhancers that you learn as-needed. So in short, all you have to do is set out to make something and find the culture or mix name that has the combination that looks compatible with it. It's totally okay to mix but just don't overdo it. If you ever need help, everyone here can give you suggestion for culture combinations.

At this point in my own cheesemaking, I actually use as little culture as possible. I let my local trees, soil, rocks, hay, and ocean water tell me the story through my local raw milk. It's fascinating to see what grows on cheese without intervention. Delicious too.
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Tiarella on August 19, 2012, 01:56:15 AM
But anyway, how did you choose all those cultures?  I've tried reading the site list of cultures and it doesn't seem to give the level of info and insight I need to make choices.  Any other favorite info sources you can recommend?  Or is it all about the hours of reading this site?

Tiarella  - did you look at my Reblochon thread? I go through the cultures there and explain the selection. Perhaps this would be a  good resource for you if you are interested in this type of cheese.  See here: The Reblochon AOC Cheesemaking Recipe + Tips + Fun Facts![/

At this point in my own cheesemaking, I actually use as little culture as possible. I let my local trees, soil, rocks, hay, and ocean water tell me the story through my local raw milk. It's fascinating to see what grows on cheese without intervention. Delicious too.
 ([url]http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9928.msg[/url])


Wows!!  Thanks for the link to your culture explanation and I love what you say about the local flavor.  That's inspiring to me.  I make flower essences as my business and I've started using them in my cheeses.  They are not essential oils but rather the healing vibrational pattern of flowers captured and stabiized in liquid.  I'm not sure yet what I'll notice but it's interesting to play.  I've also been wondering about wrapping the cheeses in local leaves for aging.  I imagine that would bring a lot of fungi/bacteria/yeast into the aging process.  Do you think that is a very likely problem-causing choice?  Wrapping would certainly make it harder to inspect for mold.
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on August 19, 2012, 04:40:01 AM
Nettles and grape leaves have been used in wrapping cheeses.

I actually use as little culture as possible. I let my local trees, soil, rocks, hay, and ocean water tell me the story through my local raw milk. It's fascinating to see what grows on cheese without intervention. Delicious too.
I've been trying to use minimal cultures and I am amazed at how little it actually takes to protect the rind of a cheese and the inner paste (praise for PLA, PC, linens).

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: iratherfly on August 19, 2012, 08:08:21 AM
Tiarella - if you have a cave, why would you want to wrap the cheese?  The idea of a cheese wrap is to mimic cave conditions around the rind. If you have a cave, let it grow wild and go nuts.

Boofer - Amazing, right?  Now just let go of the last little bit of that rind culture and try to find the rind species in your own environment. They will come, believe me.  Geo is easy to create naturally but allow me to announce: 4 weeks ago I made a batch of Chabichou-like cheese. Really a Crottin that I allow to ripen naturally with whatever geo pops up in it. Not adding PC and not expecting it to arrive naturally because I have never been able to get it to accept my natural invitation to show up. Amazingly, a week after the Geo started spreading its slime all over the place and make that wrinkly Chabichou rind, PC started popping up everywhere!  I am still not over this. I want to make this happen again! So excited to finally have my own private strain! I wish it was more aggressive though because it seems to have hard time competing with the geo and natural blue yeast spots. I guess I made a Crottin after all :)
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Tiarella on August 19, 2012, 11:10:13 AM
Well, I wrapped the cheese because I moved it to the house fridge and because that's what I thought I was supposed to do.  I think I believed that it was a way to slow down the ripening or to hold it at ripe for longer and since I'd gone overboard and made 3 batches of Brie in about 10 days I am worried about getting buried in it because I can't eat that much.  Plus I only have one of those small 45 bottle wine fridges and it's getting rather full.  I need a better way to use the space in it and I need find replacement racks that don't have the bottle waviness.  That's eating some of my vertical space.  I also need to create wood pieces of various sizes to place the cheeses on.  I want them fairly close to the wheel sizes since I think I want to maintain the ability of air to move around in there.

I have nettles but the leaves aren't so big. I do have wild grape leaves.  My cabbage is holey this year.  At least the outer leaves.  I do have some massive leaves on a redbud tree.  (Cercis canadensis)  They are heart-shaped and not toxic so I wonder about using them.  Wonder what they might introduce to the process....hmmmm.

Congrats on getting your own Geo strain, Yoav!
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on August 19, 2012, 02:51:40 PM
Today marks the third week and time for me to wrap this up.  :)

I had been successfully using cheese wrapping paper from The CheeseMaker (http://www.thecheesemaker.com/), but I recently got some new papers from Yoav which he boasts are the gnat's patoot! I used my last two sheets of the older paper to compare it with the newer paper. Let's just see if there's any difference/improvement in the aging of my cheese. There are a lot of discoveries going on with this cheese make. Pretty exciting stuff!  8)

If you're out there, Yoav, I have a couple questions for you. If you don't see this, I'll have to PM you.
The four cheese wheels have been moved to the big fridge for a couple weeks cold aging. Around September 2nd I should have a good idea if this has been a worthwhile project.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: iratherfly on August 20, 2012, 04:30:32 AM
Ooh yea, I recognize that wrap! Looking good Boofer, looking good!
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on August 20, 2012, 05:18:20 AM
Yoav, did you see my questions?

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: iratherfly on August 20, 2012, 07:36:25 AM
If you're out there, Yoav, I have a couple questions for you. If you don't see this, I'll have to PM you.
  • Along with the papers you sent, there is also a PlyBan-like material. Is it PlyBan? You hadn't mentioned anything about it.
  • Now that the Rebs are off the somewhat virgin spruce boards, what should I do to care for them so they're ready next time I want to make this cheese? Do I scrub them down with coarse salt and boiling water and then dry them? No doubt there would be some Geo growth into the top layer of wood fibers.
Ooops, sorry, I was so into the photos, I forgot all about this.

 - I sent you a sample to check out. This is a new micro-preforated synthetic cheesecloth that is disposable. It makes a rather smooth cheese and is meant to curve and stretch a bit when pressing. It's just a new material and I sent samples for a few people to report back to me whether you like it or not so I know if I should make it a regular product.  It's not Ply-Ban.  For that, I sell synthetic REUSABLE 18"x32" draining bags which can be boiled and washed over and over again. These are meant for either pre-draining curd for Chèvre/Crottin and similar lactic cheeses, or used as cheesecloth, fitting comfortably in cheese moulds of up to 6 Lb wheels.

 - Cleaning the boards. Yep. Exactly. Boiling water and salt, scrub. Dry in the sun (I read somewhere that the UV rays have positive effect on it).
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on September 04, 2012, 02:25:33 PM
Tick, tick, tick....

Next Sunday is my scheduled unveiling for this cheese. I have two each wrapped in the different type of cheese paper. One thing a little disturbing to me is that the newer paper seems to be adhering more to the cheese. That paper is more transparent so I can see more of what the cheese is doing. It's a big question mark right now. I guess, to be fair, I will have to cut one cheese from each of the two types of paper in order to compare them. I hate to do that, especially if the cheeses aren't ready, but it's a learning experience. I'll probably have to eat the cheese.  ::)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: hoeklijn on September 04, 2012, 06:01:50 PM
Oh Boofer, what an awful thought that you have to EAT them....
I'm still waiting for the replacement of my thermostat and until the cave is up and running again, I'm out of business.
But then, Reblochon it will be!
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on September 04, 2012, 07:00:41 PM
Boof - you need to get a trier so you don't have to actually cut a cheese when testing. In a pinch, an apple corer will do.
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on September 05, 2012, 06:22:02 AM
need to get a trier
Yeah, I can see that with a blue cheese or such, but would that work for a softer cheese like a Reb? What if it all oozed out the hole...? Then I'd be like Herman with my finger in the dike.  :)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: hoeklijn on September 05, 2012, 10:19:49 AM
To start with: I am NOT having my finger in a dike of any kind >:D
Second: When you use a trier, you only taste a small piece from the inside. The remaining part is plugged back in...
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: bbracken677 on September 05, 2012, 12:21:57 PM
Ahh...so that's how that works... Previously I had just pictured it as taking a core sample and leaving a hole behind.

lol
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on September 09, 2012, 04:31:16 PM
Trying to follow the guidelines in the video, I targeted 42 days for my date to cut. That's today. Of the four wheels of cheese, I had wrapped two in my older, larger white perforated cheese paper (http://www.thecheesemaker.com/products/14x14-White-Mold-Ripened-Wrapping-2%252dply-Sheets-%252d-25-pak.html) and two in some newer, smaller cheese paper. I wanted to compare the two papers.

The target weight for this cheese is 450 grams (1 pound). With varying success I achieved that goal.

There didn't seem to be a lot of difference between the two papers. The condition of the rind appeared virtually identical for both cheeses. At the cooler refrigerator temperature (39F/48%RH) both of the sampled cheeses were unripe. Although the paste just under the rind was ripening, the innermost part of the paste tended towards chalky. It was a creamy chalky, but just not ripe. The taste of the cool cheese wedge was promising and offered a glimpse of what could be a very special cheese in another month.

I have to wonder what the ripening temperature is for those cheeses to ripen in 42 days.

Comparing with my Reblochon #3 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9898.0.html), which I really like (still have an uncut wheel):

Reblochon #3
Reblochon #4

Yes, there are a lot of differences between the two makes. This is a preliminary posting. Until this cheese is ripe, I can't know whether this is a good path to take, but at this point I'm leaning towards dropping the whipping cream. There is enough richness in the raw and creamline milk that I use to produce a very nice Reblochon. I added it here to see what an ultra-rich Reblochon would be like. At the very least, it no doubt slowed the ripening.

The milk, culture mix, and make process for Reb #3 makes it a breeze to produce. The makeup of Reb #4 is slightly more complicated.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: JeffHamm on September 09, 2012, 05:51:32 PM
Very nice Boofer.  Remarkable consistency between them.  That's a sign of expert care.  A cheese for that.

Hmmm, I wonder if in the video ripe means "for market" (I will admit now to having skipped the option of watching the video myself before speculating on it's intent).  A cheese will go to market before it's "au point", otherwise the time it has to sell is too short.  I was looking at some cams the other day and they had on the wrapper "Cheese will be best the week before the best before date", which was still some time off (i.e. age this some more at home). 

- Jeff
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on September 18, 2012, 04:00:36 AM
Just checking the status at Day 52...and the lure of the gooey beckoned me.... ;)

I cut into the last wheel of Reblochon #3 to tastefully compare it to Reblochon #4. Oh yeah, it's almost there, and ripening to easily live up to the thread's namesake. So creamy...so gooey...so yummy. Can't wait until it's all grown up!

I think Yoav (aka. "iratherfly") needs some acknowledgement at this point for his tutelage. A cheese to you for your mentoring. A somewhat early Thanks.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: bbracken677 on September 18, 2012, 05:06:05 AM
Nice job Boofer!  Gooey and Sinful is an apt description!

And I second the acknowledgement for Yoav! He has been a great help and resource as well as purveyor of cheese making supplies  ;)

I have learned quite a bit from him, as well as quite a few others of you as I lurk and read old threads  muahahaha
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: JeffHamm on September 18, 2012, 05:25:23 AM
Wonderful looking result Boofer.  A cheese to you.  My 5 year old daughter looked at your photo and said "Put apples with it", so, you've been told.  :)  Looks like there's just a small spot left to ripen in #4 if I'm seeing that photo correctly, although the rind colour has a bit to go.  Still, they look fantastic.  Well done.

- Jeff
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: hoeklijn on September 18, 2012, 06:19:51 AM
yeah, cheese to you Boofer and a cheese to Yoav. I already promised him to have a go for the Reb, but at the moment I don't have the time. And it certainly deserves all my attention....
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: iratherfly on September 18, 2012, 06:52:29 AM
Thank you guys! So nice to hear!

Boofer, how is the paper working out for you thus far? The point of this paper by the way is that once the cheese is ripe it can be retailed in it without a box and it will keep very stable in its ripe state. It's also good that you can see the cheese color without opening the paper!

How close were you to my recipe? I can't remember now. It looks like it's taking a bit long to ripen this one, doesn't it? I wonder if it's just different acidity curve during cheesemaking or different cultures.
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Shazah on September 18, 2012, 07:08:22 AM
Nice job Boofer.

I can only hope that I will have a similar experience to share in a few weeks time.  I can hardly wait. :P

I agree with you and others that Yoav is a fountain of knowledge and only too happy to share his expertise with any of us with a cheesy question.  A cheese to you both from me.
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on September 18, 2012, 01:48:20 PM
Thank you guys! So nice to hear!

Boofer, how is the paper working out for you thus far? The point of this paper by the way is that once the cheese is ripe it can be retailed in it without a box and it will keep very stable in its ripe state. It's also good that you can see the cheese color without opening the paper!

How close were you to my recipe? I can't remember now. It looks like it's taking a bit long to ripen this one, doesn't it? I wonder if it's just different acidity curve during cheesemaking or different cultures.
It looks like the two papers I used perform about equally. Yours is a little smaller, which could be good, and it does allow you to see the rind color much better.

This Reb is probably taking extra time because of the added whipping cream I added. In hindsight, it doesn't need it. It was good as an experiment, but it's overkill with the richness (is that possible? :P). There's enough cream in the raw and creamline milk.

This version is also a little thicker than Reb #3 because of the extra milk & cream. That might also account for the longer ripening time required. My version was fairly close to yours. Here's the makeup:

1 gallon Pride & Joy Creamery whole raw milk
1.5 gallons Twin Brook Creamery whole creamline milk
.5 gallon Twin Brook Creamery 2% creamline milk
1 pint Twin Brook Creamery whipping cream

This culture mix has done well for me in the past.
1/8 tsp MM100
1/16 tsp TA61
1/16 tsp LH100
1/16 tsp Geo13
1/16 tsp SR3
1/32 tsp KL71
1/2 tsp CACL, in 1/4c distilled water
1/32 tsp Renco dry calf rennet, dissolved in 1/4c cool distilled water

I had moved the two cut wheels from the fridge @38F back into the cave @51F to accelerate the ripening. I'm expecting this to finish ripening by the end of the month. The remaining two wheels are still in the fridge where they will continue their ripening at a slower pace. Patience....  8)

Thanks for your encouragement and cheeses, guys. You know that just drives me to focus more sharply :).

Sailor, I belatedly took your advice about the trier. I wrestled with the decision to use a potato peeler or buy a real trier. It was clear that I may get to the point where one actually makes sense. It would have saved me the pain of opening both these Reblochons too early. I also see it getting some use with the Creamy Blueberry Delight (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10028.0.html), Tilsit #4 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10018.0.html), Tomme #6 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9807.0.html)...you get the idea. I ordered the 5-inch (127mm) tool from The Cheesemaker (http://www.thecheesemaker.com/products/Cheese-Trier.html). Okay, this should be interesting. Wait 'til the wife finds out :o.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on September 18, 2012, 04:32:44 PM
Christmas is coming. ;)
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Tiarella on September 18, 2012, 06:47:31 PM

Boofer wrote:
This culture mix has done well for me in the past.
1/8 tsp MM100
1/16 tsp TA61
1/16 tsp LH100
1/16 tsp Geo13
1/16 tsp SR3
1/32 tsp KL71
1/2 tsp CACL, in 1/4c distilled water
1/32 tsp Renco dry calf rennet, dissolved in 1/4c cool distilled water
-------------


Ummm, I'm lost!!    :-[   I haven't heard of half of these cultures.  The MM100 and TA 61 are familiar to me as is the Geo13 but the LH100, SR3, and KL71 are all new.  I had an SR5 4Runner once decades ago but have not heard of SR3.  Where can I find a list that describes all of these? 



Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: bbracken677 on September 18, 2012, 07:14:13 PM
SR3 is b.linens, KL71 is yeast and LH100 is a thermophilic (Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. lactis, Lactobacillus helveticus).
The first 2 are rind "treatments". 
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: BobE102330 on September 18, 2012, 07:45:23 PM
The Wiki may be helpful

http://cheeseforum.org/articles/wiki-manufactured-cheese-making-cultures/ (http://cheeseforum.org/articles/wiki-manufactured-cheese-making-cultures/)
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on September 19, 2012, 02:39:08 PM
The Wiki may be helpful

[url]http://cheeseforum.org/articles/wiki-manufactured-cheese-making-cultures/[/url] ([url]http://cheeseforum.org/articles/wiki-manufactured-cheese-making-cultures/[/url])
I notice that there are a few other cultures that missed the wiki:
There are so many different cultures, it's difficult to keep track of them all. I've attached a few docs that I've accumulated. Sorry, I don't have the ARN docs.

The Alp D seems to serve as a "kitchen sink" culture mix: "You want it? We got it!"
The PLA develops a really robust rind that protects the paste and ripens it tremendously.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on September 22, 2012, 06:50:16 PM
My 5 year old daughter looked at your photo and said "Put apples with it", so, you've been told.  :) 
Well, it's not apples, but here's the cheese with some other fruit.  Yum! :)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: iratherfly on September 22, 2012, 07:01:45 PM
No blue glove??? What's happening here Boofer?

Is it the photo? Or is the cheese just not very orange? (or is this the one you did without washing?)
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on September 22, 2012, 11:50:31 PM
You're killing me, Yoav.  :)

No blue glove...because I'm going to eat this wedge. A little earlier when I cut this wedge loose from the wrapped wheel you would have seen the blue glove.  ;)

No, this wasn't washed to remove the Geo and bring out the linens. Just as well...lately I've been washing the linens off my cheeses because it is somewhat offputting. I would say it isn't very orange at all.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: iratherfly on September 23, 2012, 04:10:16 AM
Fantastic texture though! Congrats!
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on October 07, 2012, 02:27:07 PM
Just another pic datapoint....

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: LoftyNotions on October 07, 2012, 05:07:30 PM
That's beautiful, Boofer!

Does vacuum sealing tend to re-slime the Geo? I'm assuming that the Geo is more like a powder at this stage???

Larry
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on October 07, 2012, 05:26:22 PM
You are correct, sir!

Geo is dry & slightly powdery. Inside cheese paper initially, a cut cheese wheel will grow Geo on the cut portion.

The vacuum-sealing allows me to portion-size the ripened wheel and hold it in stasis for a bit longer, rather than continue to ripen, dry out, or whatever. Then, when I want a piece of Reb, the rest stays relatively fresh and unopened.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on October 22, 2012, 01:25:01 AM
Took a wedge of this over to share with my dad on Saturday. He commented that he really liked the flavor.

I think I mentioned previously that I would not include the extra cream in my next effort. I'm reconsidering that, given that this has been a really noteworthy cheese.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: JeffHamm on October 22, 2012, 02:37:10 AM
That really does look fantastic Boofer.  Well done.

- Jeff
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Tiarella on October 22, 2012, 12:27:50 PM
Just another pic datapoint....

-Boofer-

I would call that a salivation point rather than a data point!  Wow!  You mention the BL being a bit off-putting and washing it off.  Is it that stinky sneaker smell that is off-putting?  I'm curious because I've been thinking of a smeared style cheese but been concerned about how much I'd like that flavor.  Hmmmm.
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on October 22, 2012, 01:22:46 PM
My wife enjoys my smeared cheeses by cutting off the linens rind if it's still significantly intact. I have let the linens do its thing for a while in several of my cheeses and then, at some point, I will wash/brush it off under cool, running water. I did that yesterday with my Tilsit #4 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10018.0.html) and the rind was only slightly smelly, but very edible. You may see some recipes that call for washing off the linens smear after it has worked its magic. It makes for a very dramatically different cheese experience. Very rewarding.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition...the final hurrah
Post by: Boofer on December 05, 2012, 05:40:39 AM
Tonight I had taken a vacuum-sealed wedge of this amazing little cheese out of the big fridge in keen anticipation of my eating pleasure.

When it came time to sample the goods, I opened the bag and felt a slickery surface on the flat face. Formerly it had been quite dry. When I cut into the cheese I was quite surprised to see that the inner core was gooey and delightful-looking as before, but just under the rind it had turned crumbly.

The taste was offputting and lacked the original appeal. Let this be a lesson to me or anyone daring to "save" a wedge for later enjoyment. It doesn't work that way. Admittedly, this is a little long in the tooth at 16 weeks. 8 and 10 weeks ago this cheese was simply astounding in every way. Now, not so much.... :(

Perhaps the several pieces I had saved could be used in cooking, but they are no longer suitable to be served discretely.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Tiarella on December 05, 2012, 12:45:26 PM
Hmmm, glad you posted this.  Soooooo, if I can't eat all the Reb style that I just vacbagged I should mail it to you to eat while it's fresh?   :D  Is that the moral to this story?? ^-^
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on December 05, 2012, 01:27:37 PM
Now you're catching on! ;)

Love your blog by the way...I'm very envious. I would imagine you're no doubt getting off the grid as well to be self-sufficient.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Tiarella on December 05, 2012, 04:41:02 PM
Thank you for the blog comment!  You and your wife are welcome to visit if you are on the East coast!  We do have a nice guest room suite we offer to interesting people.  That way, since we can't really travel to meet people elsewhere, we still get to make new friends! 

We do have solar panels but we are still grid tied and have no batteries to store energy overnight.  And we can never be self-sufficient because we can't grow chocolate.   :'(  Or olive oil.    :-\  But we do have lots of food resilience here.  We are butchering this weekend....lamb and goat kid.  Just checked the greenhouse to see if it needed watering and grabbed a handful of chickweed to munch on.  Life is good but busy.  I don't remember what it's like to sleep past 7 am. 

You know, about that Reb cheese.....and I do think I should start calling it a "Rebel" cheese.....I just tried another little sliver and I'm not sure I'm so into the flavor.  This saddens me because I think it's quite beautiful.  I'll try it on some bread with garlic/olive oil and a bit of smoked sea salt.  Maybe that'll sweeten the deal for me.  Otherwise I'm going to have to find someone closer than you to dump the cheese on.  I don't think it's flavor would improve being shipped across the country to you!   ???  Although, who knows???????  Maybe that's just what it needs!!!
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on December 05, 2012, 08:11:32 PM
Sorry to hear about your Reb flavor. Is it the cheese and the rind? Would it be enjoyable if you do as my wife does and trim off the rind?

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: LoftyNotions on December 05, 2012, 09:03:18 PM
Thanks for the vac bag information, Boofer.

I'd hate to have 8 of them bagged up and ruined. :)

Larry
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on December 05, 2012, 09:16:08 PM
Not so much the vacuum bag, but the age. Too long. Eat 'em fresh!

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: iratherfly on December 05, 2012, 09:16:38 PM
I am really not a fan of vaccum in any surface ripened cheese. It suffocates the rind that needs to breath air and remain alive.  Wrap with a proper wrapping paper or if you have a small wedge, you can put it on a cheese board and refrigerate it covered with plastic wrap so the cheese is not touching the plastic so much.

The other thing is, if you just want to see if a cheese is ready - don't cut it in half!!! cut yourself a tiny slim wedge and inspect it. you can even taste a core sample without braking the rind (a slim wedge will also get to room temp fast so it will give you an optimal test). If the cheese is no ready - plug the piece with its complete rind right back into the cheese and continue aging. It's like taking a sample with a cheese trier (but a cheese trier doesn't work very well on softer cheeses). Even if you destroy the wedge, you can insert Saran wrap to seal the place from which the wedge was taken ant it will continue to age.  If you don't do that - you will be amazed to see that rind will grow and heal on place of the amputated wedge. The cheese will continue to age. I promise.

If you happen to cut the wheel in half, you can put a Saran wrap only on the exposed surface. Then re-wrap it with the cheese wrap and continue aging it in the fridge. It will work - you can certainly age half a wheel with no need to vacuum or suffocate the rind and it's not a throwaway.

Otherwise, if you are stuck with too much Reblochon ...you can always make a Tartiflette. Who doesn't like Tartiflette???

KATHRIN; I really think your cheese is premature. You need to age it more.  You made it from goats milk so technically this is a Chevrotin and not a Reblochon and it needs a bit of a different aging.  You would be amazed at how much the flavor and texture can change when you age it longer.
What does it taste like to you right now? Too chalky? Brittle? Sour? Acidic? Bland? 
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Boofer on December 06, 2012, 03:21:49 AM
So you're saying that if I had just wrapped in cheese paper that it would have survived better even at 16 weeks?

Who doesn't like Tartiflette???
Never had the pleasure.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Tiarella on December 06, 2012, 12:14:45 PM

KATHRIN; I really think your cheese is premature. You need to age it more.  You made it from goats milk so technically this is a Chevrotin and not a Reblochon and it needs a bit of a different aging.  You would be amazed at how much the flavor and texture can change when you age it longer.
What does it taste like to you right now? Too chalky? Brittle? Sour? Acidic? Bland?

Yoav, when I tried it on a cracker I liked it fine.  I knew it might be a bit immature but it was soft and supple feeling and I have so much of it I didn't worry about opening some.  It wasn't any of the 4 words you asked about with regards to flavor.  A little like library paste when eaten plain.  I really do like the texture a lot; that's great!  The smell isn't super strong but I don't like that a lot......wouldn't dab some behind my ears before going out on the town!   :o
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: iratherfly on December 07, 2012, 08:27:38 AM
Well, that's a whole new use for it!  ;D ;D ;D

It's a gentle cheese, especially when young.  Reblochon is not the stinkiest of the washed rinds, it's a mixed rind and suppose to be somewhat herbaceous and milky, not bold and stinky like Livarot or Munster cheeses (not to be confused with Muenster)
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Tiarella on December 07, 2012, 12:31:27 PM
Maybe it's close to hitting it's mark then.  It's not strong smelling.....just not my favorite smell.   :P
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: rosawoodsii on December 07, 2012, 03:31:44 PM
You made it from goats milk so technically this is a Chevrotin and not a Reblochon and it needs a bit of a different aging.  You would be amazed at how much the flavor and texture can change when you age it longer.

iratherfly, thank you for all the information on testing and wrapping. 

I've never heard of a Chevrotin--but then, there's a lot of cheeses I've never heard of.  What would the different aging consist of?  I have noticed that goat milk cheese (which is what I make 99% of the time) ages much more quickly than cow milk, but are there guidelines for goat Reb/Chevrotin?
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: Salilah on March 01, 2013, 08:53:55 PM
Tartiflette - UK version

You can use Reblochon (best) or a Camembert (even an old one)

Onions and chunky bacon (lardons) - fry in a bit of olive oil until pretty brown and crispy - as far as you want to go

Slice potatoes (I must admit I use both floury and waxy ones) quite thin

In a lidded dish - a bit of garlic around the dish or just slide it into the potatoes -2 layers of potatoes, then add the onion / lardon mixture on top

Add several spoonfuls of creme fraiche (if wanted - some don't) then another 2 layers of potato slices

I cook this with lid (180C) for 45m- an hour; then take the lid off, slice the Reblochon horizontally as well as vertically and lay on the top

another 20mins or so so the cheese melts thoroughly through the potatoes

bliss!!!  PS it's not an old recipe I gather - more recent from skiing sites - but it is lovely for an indulgent supper with a good salad!
Title: Re: Gooey & Sinful... Fourth Edition (fingers crossed)
Post by: rosawoodsii on March 02, 2013, 12:38:27 AM
Okay, this is one I'll have to try...