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GENERAL BOARDS => Other Artisan Crafts => Topic started by: anutcanfly on February 25, 2012, 08:20:42 PM

Title: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on February 25, 2012, 08:20:42 PM
I just roasted my first beans today, but alas the temperature got away from me and I got something between Italian and Spanish roast.  I'll brew over the next few days before I toss it as I can actual smell some nice aromas building up in their container.  Tomorrow's roast will go much better.  I started this thread so it wouldn't be lost as easy.  I'd love to hear from and share experiences with all my fellow DIY's!  :)
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Tomer1 on February 26, 2012, 09:30:10 AM
How do you toast them?

I know the ethiopian jews roast green beans stright on a pan. grind and make turkish style coffee  (boiling the finly ground coffee in water and decanting)
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on February 26, 2012, 11:05:12 AM
I'm using a stove top popcorn popper.  It works great, but you feel like you need 3 hands to operate it!  I'll post a picture of the set up I'm using in a day or two.  I don't get much time on the computer during the weekends.  I tried the my first batch again and it has a nice aroma and works fine for a latte.  It's flat, but that's to be expected.  There is an acrid/acidy/rancid quality to most pre-roasted coffees I've been sampling this last month and no amount of milk will hide that horrible flavor!  I can live with flat by comparison.  Hopefully today I'll get it right!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on February 26, 2012, 12:02:41 PM
Hard to tell by the picture but that looks like you've gone to expresso roast. Many people say you should let it sit over night or 24 hours or more to expel the CO2 in the beans from roasting. I tend to agree on the darker roasts but the lighter roasts only need a few hours. The most important thing is to cool the beans quickly after roasting to stop them from cookng and more. The beans can get up to 800 degrees so you can well imagine they'd continue cooking for a very long time.

What kind of beans did you roast?
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on February 26, 2012, 12:37:24 PM
Cooling was the one part I did do well.  I sprayed a few squirts  of water on them while shaking and tossing them in a metal colander, then transferred them to a large steel baking sheet I had waiting on ice, then back to the colander and  back to the pan.  They cooled down really fast! 

Today when I adjust the heat to keep it from going below 300 degrees  I will remember to turn it all the way back down, immediately, when I see the temp rising again.  I marked my setting where I had stabilized at 500 with easy to see white lines.  Above all else I will remember that I can always move the pan off the heat if things seem to be going too fast, like they did yesterday.  I can move the pan off the heat to check the beans without scorching them in the process (it takes two hands just to keep the beans in motion).

I roasted Burman's BCT Espresso Blend.  Later, when I get the hang of it, I start roasting and blending myself.

I am quite excited by all this!   ;D


Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on February 26, 2012, 12:44:41 PM
I haven't done any blending yet just trying different coffees. So many beans so little space! LOL

I have only been roasting since 2009 but I have tried a good number of beans. Gary Burman seems to like  the same styles I do. If he has a new bean he really likes I buy 5 pounds of it. Just got another 25 pounds in Friday. Now where to put it? I need to contruct a bean rack of some sort. I have piles of boxes full of beans stacked in the bedroom.  ;D
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on February 26, 2012, 01:06:40 PM
LOL  ;D  I totally understand.  I have yet to have a pantry big enough to hold all the things I buy in bulk.  So I have boxes all over with vacuum sealed wheat (I buy this in 50 pound sacks), buckwheat, dried fruit, teff, rice... it just gets worse from there!

I'm hoping my tastes agree with his too!  If I don't ruin todays roast I will have a good idea as it's his blend, so I assume it will be to his liking.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on February 26, 2012, 01:13:52 PM
Yes it is. I spoke with him on the phone for quite some time a few years back and he and I share the same likes  and dislikes. He was surpised on my first order I bought all his favorite cofffees.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Crystal on February 26, 2012, 02:18:07 PM
Hmm, this is a bad idea... I love coffee and drink it all day long... I was a barista for a while so can make coffee and damn if after reading this i dont want to roast my own beans!! This could be very dangerous!!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on February 26, 2012, 02:24:44 PM
Well I figure it this way. I don't know about where you live but here coffee has been going up about 50 cents a week and I think they are using fillers to keep the cost down because the coffees are getting horrible and have the added affect of burning my tummy! I have not had that problem with my own beans. I drink coffee from the time I get up til the time I go to bed and I deserve a good cup of coffee! It is one thing I would not be able to live without or people would not want to be around if I had too.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Tomer1 on February 26, 2012, 05:24:39 PM
Hmm, this is a bad idea... I love coffee and drink it all day long... I was a barista for a while so can make coffee and damn if after reading this i dont want to roast my own beans!! This could be very dangerous!!

I know what you mean, I cant afford another addiction\hobby.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on February 26, 2012, 06:07:11 PM
This hobby pays for itself quite quickly!  I am happy to say that after tossing and turning half the night as I mulled over what needed to happen today... Success! I was careful to keep it slower--9 minutes roasting time, and this roast went much better.  I believe that this roast is what's called espresso these days.  Darker then Vienna, but not quite as dark as French Roast.  It tastes okay now, so I hope that means it will be delicious in a day or two.  DeeJayDebi, what is the difference between beans that have had a degassing period and fresh just out of the pot?  Is it more harsh, or flavors not developed yet?  I remembered to take more photos and I've already had a truffle and latte to celibrate!  8)
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Tomer1 on February 26, 2012, 07:04:40 PM
Gas is only a problem with commerical packaging as the gasses may rupture the vacuumed or heat sealed and nitrogen sparged bag.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on February 26, 2012, 08:55:38 PM
When they are first roasted they have been expeling gases from the oils, sugars and mositure held inside the bean. Sometime you'll get a oily burnt taste. If you wait these gases are released (degaused) and you don't get that off flavor in your brewed coffee. Roasted bean are often held for 24 to 36 hours before brewing. The darker you roast the more gases are produced. You may aso see that at some point after the second crack the beans look oily or wet. That is not bad for all beans but can leave a weird flavor if not degaused at least over night.

Judging by the pictures (and I am viewing on a laptop) I'd say the one on the left probably just a tad under roasted to just right and the one on the right is just a tad over roasted to a just right... After trying both roasts you should have a pretty good idea of which you prefer.   It can be tricky to get them all to the same level with a poper but you have succeeded wonderfully as usual! Good job!

Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on February 26, 2012, 09:01:13 PM
Hmm, this is a bad idea... I love coffee and drink it all day long... I was a barista for a while so can make coffee and damn if after reading this i dont want to roast my own beans!! This could be very dangerous!!

I know what you mean, I cant afford another addiction\hobby.

If you drink coffee you are probably already addicted to this hobby. You just don't roast your own beans. You are going to drink coffee anyway you may as well enjoy it to it's fullest.  BTW it only takes about 6 to 9 minutes to roast coffee beans! and you may already have the euqipment in your home. Some people just use a cast iron skillet, some use a hot air popcorn popper, some as Anut does use a whirleybird popcorn popper, Some use commercially made coffee roasters or home made roasters. It's all up to you. The important thing is to get good rich flavorful coffee and not fillers and crap.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Crystal on February 27, 2012, 03:34:22 AM
Tomer, I should be roasting my own, but imagine the buzz id be having. I only drink the freeze dried stuff now, and a lot of it... real coffee all day long and ill be bouncing off the walls!! I think one of the shops near here sells whole beans that you can roast yourself, i might investigate! Also, if i can manage it in a regular pan then i cant see why i shouldnt! Any pointers? I assume 'SHAKE' is one of them? Time and temp are the others?
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: curdgirl on February 27, 2012, 05:16:34 AM
Hi. This is my very first post on cheeseforum and it's on coffee beans - how funny is that  ;D

I use a cast iron skillet on the stove top to roast my green beans. We were in Ethiopia a couple of years a go and I had a lot of wonderful coffee prepared for me this way. If so many people the world over can create a decent cuppa using low tech..I figure it's good enough for me. I have the heat about medium (did over roast once on higher heat, lesson learned) and I shake the pan around a bit - or stir it with a wooden spatula. There isn't a consistent colour throughout when it browns (much more consistent if beans aren't on top of each other) but it works fine. When I take them off the heat I have two colanders handy, I run outside with the beans and colanders and start tossing quickly from the pan to the colander and between the colanders - to cool very quickly and to blow away the chaff. Once cooled or at least all the chaff is gone I let it sit somewhere coolish for 30 mins and then it's coffee grinding and making time - Delish! Have fun.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on February 27, 2012, 10:53:15 AM
Hello Heather, welcome to the forum.  I was happy to find out that roasting didn't require fancy expensive equipment! I bought a book, a popper and a thermometer for about $50.  I figure I will be saving $10 a month and getting awesome coffees.  I truly wish I had learned about this decades ago!

Hi Crystal, It creates a lot of smoke.  So if you don't have really good stove vent, you will want to do this outside on a camp stove.

Hi DeejayDebi, The beans look lighter in the photos.  I tried to get picture that would be more accurate but none of them were.  I've been using memory, espresso and french roast beans I have here to judge the roast.  I lined them up and smelled them all too.  I'd be curious to know what your and Burman's favorites are?  Currently I'm just looking for beans that sound good; rich, smooth, big body, thick, mild acidity, bold and will handle a dark roast.  We only drink espresso.  Regular drip coffee seems so weak to me now!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on February 27, 2012, 08:26:02 PM
Well Anut I don't drink much expresso but I like a solid cup. I don't like dishwasher. We do expresso for afternoon break at work. One of the guys brought in a machine that works pretty well.

My Burman's favoite is the Costa Rican Honey Palmares whish is really weird because it is not a strong bold flavor its a lighter caramely flavor with a hint of citrus very relaxing somehow. You just want to sip and enjoy.

Got an email from Jon Burman today wondering why I hadn't tried the El Salvador Honey Cerro Las Ranas which I guess is close to the Costa Rican. I just didn't see it when I ordered last week. He thought I'd jump all over it. Never tried the El Salvador beans.  popped back in and ordered 10 pounds on his recommendation. I guess they see my emails so often asking about the Costa Rican they know what I want.

Also reallly like the Costa Rican Tarrazu "San Marcos" anther Medium bodied and sweet, this cup has a great mix of citrus versus a carmelly darker note.

The Colombian Premium Huila Valencia is more my normal coffee. This is a good slap your face Yeah that's coffee drinkers coffee! Bold, rich, nutty and great for expresso!

The Mexican Terruno Nayarita Organic Natural Peaberry is another great all day drinker. Slightly fruity, sweet and almost chocolaty. Another good expresso bean.

Maui Kaanpali Blend Red/Yellow I love Kona coffee but here on the mainland it's too pricey! When I was staitioned in Hawaii that's all they had and I loved it. This falls short. Not bad but lacks the strong full bodied flavors you associate with the island coffees. I did not care for it as an expresso. Once you go past the 2nd crack it goes ... Hmmm cardboardy? Pulpy? I don't know just looses it completely.

Guatemalan Antigua Finca "Colombia" an excelent example of a good bold Indian coffee with a hint of spice.

Honduran Marcala Special EP bright citrisy and chocolaty. Definate aftertones of orange peel.

Tanzanian AAA Ruvuma (Flat Bean) I am not a fan of flowery Kenyas so I went straight the darker roast for the smokey chocolaty flavors. think this would be a good expresso roast.

Bolivian Org. Microlot:  Mejillones Marcial H This I would definately like to try as an expresso. Rich and pleasent and a great all day coffee.

Indonesian Sumatra Mandehling Gr. 1 I really love Starbucks Sumatra one of my favorite coffees this is richer, and more chocolatety than Starbucks if roasted slightly lighter than Startbucks brand. Another great expresso bean.

Brazil Daterra Villa Borghesi full bodied, fruity and chocolatety not as good as those baove and never tried it as an expresso.

Papua New Guinea Kimel Peaberry excelent all day coffee! I really like the peaberrys for flavor. This is a bit of everything, sweet, citusy, chocolaty, spicey bold - I need do do this one as an expresso roast one day bet it'd kick butt!

Costa Rican Tarrazu Cafetin smooth, sweet, medium bodied but really good! Never tried it as an expresso but I bet it would be good.


Costa Rican Finca de Licho Gary says this hints of brown sugar and honey and it does. Caramely cocoa, and a hint of peach? Excelent all day coffee.

Honduran Marcala San MarcosRich and fruity similar to the EP above but slightly less bright.

Nicaragua FTO Segovia Rich and smooth and a hint of mollases. Very all day good sipper. Might make a great expresso.

Well I think that's all I have notes on. Gary and Jon are really good at describing coffees and telling you how to best roast them. They are also very friendly if you have questions.



 
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on February 27, 2012, 11:35:29 PM
Wow! That's quite a reply!  You're awesome!  Names would have been fine!  I haven't got the names and descriptons on my computer yet of the coffees I ordered today, but I'm surprised as I only matched up with 2 on your list.  I was expecting to find lots of common ground.  I'll have to try some of your favorites on my next order.  I do still like drip coffee if it's very strong.  I'll will look forward to making a strong drip coffee with the Colombian Huila Valencia Supremo. 

Today I ordered:

Brazil Bob-o-Link
Brazil Fazenda Aurea Natural
Colombian BCT Prem. Huila - out of stock
Colombian Huila Valencia Supremo
Gautemalan Bella Carmona
Indian Monsooned Malabar
Indonesian Org. RFA Flores
Indonesian Sumatra G1 Tabu Jamu
Malawi Manpanga AA
Rwanda Ruli Mountain
Tanzanian Kigoma Kanyou coop peaberry

I’ll let you know my impressions as I have them since they are all new to me!  I guess I do have an adventurous spirit after all! Though by that time the beans will likely be out of stock.  I would hope that there would enough similarity from year to year to learn what types you like in general.

Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Tomer1 on February 28, 2012, 07:09:20 AM
Do you roast seperatly before blending or can you blend before roasting meaning you dont have to spend as much time roasting?
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on February 28, 2012, 11:50:03 AM
Hi Tomer,

You can do it either way.  I really should do each kind  separately first so I can understand what each type of bean contributes to the blend.  That would also allow you to do a darker or lighter as is ideal for each type of bean.  But I would end up with more roasted coffee that I can consume in a week or two, that's the down side.  Roasting goes fair quick--took nine minutes.  I spend more time with set up and clean up than I do roasting.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anarch on February 28, 2012, 05:24:04 PM
OK, this looks awesome.  We adore coffee here too.  And have only been buying the premium brands lately because of taste.

Is this really cost effective (aka cheaper) than buying a 12 oz bag of whole beans for about $8-10 at the store? 

I also LOVE good Ethiopian fresh roasted coffee and would love to do it at home.

Equipment wise (unlike cheesemaking) this seems to be something we already have everything for :).
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on February 28, 2012, 06:40:00 PM
Definitely cheaper! How much so depends on the beans you choose and how much you buy of each type of bean at a time.  Look up Burman or Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting site online.  A few ounces are lost per pound during roasting, so you would end up with 13 oz average?  Not sure as I just started and forgot to weigh my coffee after roasting.  I decided to roast my own when I realized I would have to pay $14-16 or more dollars a pound to get a French or Espresso roast that was acceptable.  I'd rather pay far less for green beans and get a coffee that really makes me smile and say ahhh!  You will be roasting the high end of the green beans available, where as the big roasters, Starbucks and such, are trying to produce a consistent flavor using the cheapest beans they can.  When the price of Starbucks went up and the quality went down I decided I had had enough! 
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on February 28, 2012, 09:39:31 PM
Ooo you got some good ones there! I missed a few of those. I am going to have to come up with  bean room soon. Maybe I can hang them from the ceiling?  ;D

I highly recoomend you roast them separately and blend after. Each beean has it's own personality and perfect roast. They also roast at different times and temperatures you might loose out by combining until your sure what they are. I have found varying the itme but just 5 or 10 seconds sometimes makes a different flavor.

You do loose a few ounces per pound but the beans increase in size so it evens out as we generally make coffee but spoons not weight. If you are a real coffee lover - you can't beat the flavors of fresh roasted coffee.

So for running out of beans that does happen with some types VERY quickly but there are plenty of types to try and enjoy that are equally enjoyable and new adventures everyday! I find Gary and Jon's descriptions are right on and their monthly email specials give us a chance to buy at a discount as soon as they come in.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on February 28, 2012, 11:56:54 PM
You can hang them from my ceiling!  My order hasn't even got here and I'm already noticing beans I want to try and don't have, or didn't buy enough of!  :)  I tried to stay with beans that would do well as dark roasts (well into 2nd crack) as it may be awhile before I get the knack of when to stop.  It happens so quickly at the end!  The smell is wonderful.  I have a hard time not stopping to smell my roasted coffee beans each time I'm near them.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: george (MaryJ) on February 29, 2012, 04:27:03 AM
I have a hard time not stopping to smell my roasted coffee beans each time I'm near them.
  Why would you NOT want to stop?   ;D
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on February 29, 2012, 11:05:55 AM
Because I space out and forget what I was supposed to be doing!  It's quite distracting!  ;D
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on February 29, 2012, 03:00:55 PM
I need to get some real containers for my coffees but I don't really have the space for containers. I roast about 1/2 pound at a time and put them in lined candy bags. I keep the bags in a room I only use for curing so it's fairly cool with the bags open over night. I have a little row of bags on the file cabinet breathing.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on February 29, 2012, 03:14:03 PM
I liked the idea of the one way valve bags.  I wonder how long they extend the life of coffee?  I would sure love to wander thru your house some time.  I might never leave! 
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on February 29, 2012, 03:23:21 PM
Or you might trip on boxes of spices, beans, presses, grinders, stuffers, etc. and such that extend slightly into the walkways. I have a very small house and to many hobbies that require lots of stuff!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on February 29, 2012, 03:34:02 PM
 :) I gave up on having a tidy house along time ago... I'm a hermit any way, so who's going to notice or care?
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on February 29, 2012, 07:10:24 PM
A nice snowy day here.  Good time to roast!  The snow was very helpful for cooling beans quickly.  I decided to roast each type of bean separately:

Indonesian Gr. 1, Sumatra Tabu Jamu - Full City Roast
Brazil Bob-O-Link  - Vienna Roast
Brazil Fazenda Aurea - Espresso
Colombian BCT Premium Huila - Vienna Roast

I am starting to get the hang of it.  I wanted to take the Colombian farther into the 2nd crack, but I couldn't see well enough thru the smoke so it got pulled a bit soon.  I'm not always sure when 1st or 2nd crack actually begins so it's difficult to just count into it. 

Saturday begins with sampling each type of bean as is, then mixing the roasts in different proportions.  I will likely be bouncing off the walls with the amount of caffeine I am likely to have!  :)
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on February 29, 2012, 08:27:31 PM
Don't they look and smell good enough to eat? Don't though I was seduced into eatting one by the mesmerizing aroma and they are not good to eat and get stuck in your teeth!

Let me know about the Brazil Bob-O-Link and the Brazil Fazenda Aurea haven't tried those yet.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on February 29, 2012, 11:55:06 PM
Will do.  I've eaten a few myself, still do, particularly when they're covered in chocolate.  :P
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anarch on March 01, 2012, 11:59:36 AM
They look amazing!

I'm so ordering some beans today. :)
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 01, 2012, 12:29:21 PM
Some hobbies are contagious.  ;D  Good luck!

What is your avatar anarch?  Fur or plant? 
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anarch on March 01, 2012, 12:41:44 PM
Some hobbies are contagious.  ;D  Good luck!

What is your avatar anarch?  Fur or plant?

Fur :).  Technically wool.  That is my sheep Eliza's wool covered in frost one cold morning. 

I decided to let my husband pick which varieties of beans to order since he's the true coffee lover in the house!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 01, 2012, 02:34:03 PM
Sheep?  Are you milking her?  I still keep hoping to find sheep milk close by here.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anarch on March 01, 2012, 03:11:11 PM
Sheep?  Are you milking her?  I still keep hoping to find sheep milk close by here.

Not that sheep ;).  I got into sheep for lamb and wool (I'm a handspinner/knittter) and my original flock was a rare breed fancy colored wool/meat breed.  This past Fall though, I did buy 3 sheep that are intended to be milked. 

I have two E Friesian/Dorset cross ewes (that look pregnant!) and one 75% E Friesian/25% Lacune ewe (who is still pretty little, probably won't lamb til this summer) that I do hope to milk starting late Spring/Summer.  When I first started making cheese, sheep milk cheese was my goal. 

So...we'll see how it goes!  I do love having sheep though.  Tasty lamb, wool, and hopefully milk soon too.  I have one of my ewes that will probably be lambing any day now, I'll post pics in the aminals forum. 
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 01, 2012, 03:59:08 PM
Awesome! It's deeply satisfying doing things for yourself!  Are you sure you're going to be able to eat sheep after raising cuddly babies?  I got some adorable chickens (polish) for meat and eggs.  My sweetheart fell in love with them and swore off eating chicken.  I don't think I better keep any fish, or we won't be able to eat fish any more either!  ::)  Look forward to seeing pictures.  :)
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anarch on March 01, 2012, 04:05:22 PM
Ah well, yes.  We've had sheep for about 5 years now and have been eating our own lamb for about 4 years.  It really is amazing.  But, I don't actually do the butchering myself, can't.  We do butcher birds ourselves though (chickens, ducks, turkeys so far).  I end up selling ewes for breeding stock every year or keeping them, but the ram lambs end up in the freezer.  The lambs are amazingly cute.  I'm really excited for lambing! 

Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 01, 2012, 04:19:52 PM
It's the boy's that are the problem.  I was hoping to have goats, but I'm worried we will be hip deep in them.  I won't be allowed to eat the extra boys or sell them to people that might eat them! Since the girls have to freshen each year it could be a fiasco in no time! I love my Sweeties tender heart, but sometimes it's very inconvenient!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anarch on March 01, 2012, 04:46:43 PM
LOL yes, farming is about the only arena where the males get the short end of the stick so to speak!  If you can't eat em, yeah.  I have some neighbors with goats and they can't do that either so they end up selling them and pretending they don't know the end fate of the boys. 
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: MrsKK on March 02, 2012, 09:12:26 AM
So I started reading this thread, thinking that I was just beating myself up - I LOVE coffee, but can only drink about a cup of the real stuff per day or I don't sleep.  If I don't sleep, I get mean and sick...

So, torturing myself even more, I looked up  the Burman's site...to discover that they sell decaf green beans!  Yipppeeee!  HOOO-RAH! And the prices are so much better than the whole bean prices at Sam's Club.

Home-roasted coffee, here I come!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 02, 2012, 11:25:16 AM
He has a pretty good selection too!  I was thinking about those myself so I could reduce my caffeine intake without reducing the volume.  I could even have several lattes.... what a happy thought!

Have fun MrsKK! I'm enjoying it so far!  :P
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 04, 2012, 12:02:43 PM
This weekend I tried the coffee I roasted individually and in combination.  I'm finding it's hard to describe what I am tasting!

Burman's Espresso Blend - Espresso roast

A passable espresso, but not exciting.


Indonesian Gr. 1, Sumatra Tabu Jamu - Full City Roast

This coffee tasted nasty!  I will roast the rest to a full dark french/Italian roast and use it for blending with nice tasting coffees that are roasted lighter.


Brazil Bob-O-Link  - Vienna Roast

This was fine.  It will be a nice coffee for blending.  It doesn't have any strong opinions to voice.


Brazil Fazenda Aurea - Espresso

I liked this brazil better, still mild and easy going as the other brazil.  It may just be the darker roast that appeals to me.


Colombian BCT Premium Huila - Vienna Roast

I liked the Colombian.  It would be a good sipping all day coffee and would be good in a blend.  It had a pleasant nutty taste.  Not too acidic nor flat.


I wish I could give better descriptions, but I'm floundering at that.

I tried mixing all four mix in equal portions.  This made a passable espresso and latte, but nothing worth singing about. 

25% Indonesian Gr. 1, Sumatra Tabu Jamu - Full City Roast
25% Brazil Bob-O-Link  - Vienna Roast
25% Brazil Fazenda Aurea - Espresso
25% Colombian BCT Premium Huila - Vienna Roast


I thought about it and decided to leave out the Sutmatra and one Brazil.  I also added in a portion of my first roast, that was over roasted, to add in all the dark, smoky, charred notes I was missing.  Now we are getting somewhere!   :P That is the best yet so far! 

33% Brazil Bob-O-Link  - Vienna Roast
33% Colombian BCT Premium Huila - Vienna Roast
33% Burman's espresso blend - Italian/Spanish roast

That's useful to know.  Any beans that produce a flavor I don't like can be roasted very dark and still be useful for mixing! Sparing the better tasting beans for lighter roast.  I will continue to roast beans separately so I can use different roasting styles for my blends.  I keep CO2 around for beer making, so I'm going to try adding a blanket of CO2 on the roasted beans to help slow down deterioration, as it will take me a month to drink the amount of coffee I make roasting 4 types of beans, separately, at a time.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 06, 2012, 01:58:46 PM
Karen -
Their decaf is water wash processed not processed using formaldehyde and tastes just about the same as the regular coffees. I buy both and often blend them to reduce the caffine somewhat.

Anut -
I have the Indonesian Sumatra Mandehling Gr.1 and it is best slightly past the second crack until you see the oil coming out onto the bean. The Indonesian Gr. 1, Sumatra Tabu Jamu is probably similar. Go to about #14 on the chart below.

First Crack -  Sounds like rice crispies when you put the milk in the bowl. Very faint like crumbling tissue paper. This is when the chaff (skin like spainish peanuts) starts coming off the bean.

Second Crack - the bean actually cracks releasing gases and moisture and often jumps around like popcorn much more pronounced. The small bit of chaff between the bean halves begins to fall away.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 06, 2012, 04:55:00 PM
Thanks DeejayDebi,

I'll give the Sumatra a second chance.  It's too bad the Columbian went out of stock before I could buy anymore!  All the styles I will use are during second crack.  The smoke makes it difficult to see, but to count into the crack means you need to be able to hear when it first starts.  I can hear once it gets going good, but not sure I'm hearing it start, as the crank makes a lot of noise.  I'm starting to get the hang of and will happily use the Sumatra to practice getting to a Dark French roast, without crossing over to Italian.  Very glad I didn't toss out the first batch I over roasted.  Who would have thought it could be good for blending!

I placed an order for beans from Sweet Maria and I noticed that much of it was out of stock.  When do most beans come in?  Is there a season that's best to start looking?

Anut  :)
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 06, 2012, 05:34:36 PM
They are coming in every month. Sometimes weekly depending on the vender. I had trouble tryin to get anything from Maria's they were always out of what I wanted. So far Burmans only ran out of the Honey Palmares but it should be coming in June? I think and I will order a WHOLE bag if I can afford it. I can drink 50 pounds in 2 years.

Never throw away any odd beans they are good to mix for many things adn if you REALLY don't like it put them in the bottom of your flower pots. They like coffee too. I really hated the Kenya but my tomatoes loved it! To perfumey. Almost perfumey enough to make me sneeze! The whole beans are good for drainage and ground for a dirt mix. Oddly enough some bugs don't like coffee like those army bugs.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 06, 2012, 05:51:42 PM
 ;D  Now there's a few recycling tips I would never have thought of!  I'm pretty sure an Italian Roast would make all beans taste much the same, allowing me to use them in a blend.  Here's a question, when you have a batch of beans that have already been roasted lighter, say Full City, but you don't like them and want them real dark, say Italian.  Can you roast them a second time?
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 06, 2012, 10:01:28 PM
Hmmm good question I never tried it but why not? I have heard of double roasting but that is just roasting longer til they are almost burnt to a crisp!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 07, 2012, 10:28:03 AM
Might as well try it, since I would otherwise throw them on the compost pile.  I'll post how it comes out. 

I wonder if I can blend the Starbuck's I have in stock with something that will breath some life in it as it's totally flat tasting.  Better than acrid, but still not appealing.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 08, 2012, 12:53:36 AM
Well if the sumatra jamu does work for you you might want to try the Indonesian Sumatra Mandehling Gr.1 I found it to taste much like the old Starbucks before they changed it or whatever they did. Either it's not as good as it used to be or I just got spoiled.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 08, 2012, 12:01:23 PM
I'll try the Sumatra grade 1 on my next order.  This go round I decide to try Sumatra FTO Gayo Tunas and Indonesian Org RFA Flores Bajawa, which is similar to Sumatra.  I think I'd better stop ordering beans as I have 44 pounds in stock now!  I tried to get small quantities of a wide variety to play with, plus larger quantities of base blending coffee beans.  So many I wanted to try were not in stock--drat!  I'll post my impressions as I try them.  Let me know if you run into anything you find to be exceptional!  If it's anything like wine, the great ones disappear very quickly!  Sweet Maria's has a lot of espresso blends to pick from, and I ordered a pound of a couple, but I think using someone else's blends would take part of the fun away from roasting coffee.  Her prices are quite high on a lot of stuff, but she did have a great deal on a brazil that didn't have a pedigree, but was as good as the ones that did.  I bought 10 pounds for $4.77 a pound.  Starbuck's did change something.  All of a sudden their coffee went flat and the prices went up.  You can drink it, it doesn't taste bad, but it doesn't taste good either... just flat.  My sweet heart noticed it too, that's why I started my search for alternatives.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 10, 2012, 12:19:05 AM
The green beans will keep for about 2 years in bags or containers but longer if vacuum sealed. I probably have close to 150 pounds of green beans in the house. Maybe more - there's 50 pounds sitting in the kitchen I haven't packaged yet just from the past few weeks. Very contagious.

I figure Starbucks did something the last few trips were not good. You think at their price they'd give you a decent brew but they are building to fast and the product is paying the price.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 10, 2012, 11:49:55 AM
Wow! I thought I was getting carried away!  :)  I've been getting mixed messages on the storage aspect of green beans.  Sweet Maria is saying that green beans need to be used within a year.  Longer if you vacuum pack, but that only applies to wet processed coffee.  Dry process don't do well vacuum packed. 

I'm not too worried about it, but I think I will try not to buy too far past what I can consume in a year.  I figure my sweet and I go thru 36 pounds a year.

I wonder how long Starbucks will get away with it.  It could be that most people don't really notice or care.  Canned coffee is still quite popular... shudder!  One of the happiest memories of my childhood, was getting a lifesavers stuck halfway down my throat and having a teacher give me coffee hoping to melt it.  Not quite sure how that works, but I was in heaven!  I fell in love with coffee as at a very young age... Brandy too.  Grandma would give me brandy to sooth my sore throat when I was sick.   :P
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 10, 2012, 07:31:53 PM
I don't know that I have seen any difference in the dry or wet processed beans in vacpacking but I do buy most wet. We go through about 5 pounds a week in the winter and maybe 7 in the summer. I am stockpiling coffee and other long lasting products for my retirement stash. I am retiring in December and unfortunating I am a government employee. That means I get to collect somewhere between 50 and 80% of my actually retirement check for the first 6 to 8 months until they complete the processing of my retirment claim. No one knows who decides if it's 50 or 80% but they are backlogged a miniumum of 6to 8 months. This has apparently been going on for 10 years and they have done nothing to fix the problem. The sad part is you don't even know it's going to happen normally until you retire. I found out by accident and have been passing the word ever since. Luckily for me I have been saving for retirement since I was 18 and should be fine. Many people have lost their homes over this ... ah well this is another story.

OFF SOAPBOX ....
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 10, 2012, 07:57:05 PM
Flip!  That is so rude!  I'm glad you got a heads up in time!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 10, 2012, 08:19:57 PM
Yeah at this rate I won't need to but groceries anyway!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 11, 2012, 12:36:37 PM
A couple of guys in my old crowd figured that out pretty well.  They had regular routes of places to show up around dinner and get a free meal.  About once a week I could figure on having an extra at the table!  :)
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 11, 2012, 03:41:16 PM
I hae a friend or two that does that all summer long. Don't see them much in the winter though. I always know I will have guests for dinner on weekends though and I don't have meals at regular times it's just when I get around to it. BAD I know.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 11, 2012, 04:18:00 PM
Not bad at all. Living by a clock is no fun!  For that matter, I've been known to serve breakfast for dinner as I don't eat in the morning, but I love french toast and pancakes--the real kind... whole wheat sourdough, buttermilk type, not the tastless Denny's variety!  I would truly be unhappy if I started to have issues with bread and milk.  Allergy's can start up anytime as we get older!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 11, 2012, 04:24:50 PM
I do the same. Can't eat in the morning I have to be up for serval hours before I eatand by then I am at work. I often make breakfast food for supper especially omettes and that sort of thing. This was supper a few days ago.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 11, 2012, 05:57:47 PM
Oh yeah, that works for me!  :P 

I'll try remember to take a pic of my favorite omlete or quiche dinner.  I go a little overboard on stuffings!  I've always considered omletes and quiche to be fair game for any meal of the day.  I use potatos to form the crust of the quiche to avoid the way too fattening normal pie crust.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 11, 2012, 06:10:06 PM
Yeah me too my omelettes always end up looking more like burrittos as you can see but I love carmelize onions and they take up half my space! I like to use mashed tater for crusts too because I like that carmelized tater starch edge it seem more like a breakfast food to me for some reason. Sometimes I will used shredded tater instead of mashed and it looks like it's sitting in a birds nest if you lightly spray them with butter or oil and prebake the taterbed.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 11, 2012, 08:10:35 PM
I haven't tried mashed potatos, that sounds good.  I'll give a go on my next quiche... sweet potatos I think...

I slice potatos thin like for chips and then rub them with olive oil and spices.  Then I layer them around the pie plate and prebake for 20 minutes.  Red or Yukon potatos work well for this.  I have found that if I cut up spinach enough, I can really pile it high (11 ounces of spinach), and it will wilt down to a nice thick layer.  I add cheese and other veggies in between layers of spinach so they blend and hold together well.  The hard part is getting the eggs and milk to pour into the pie (I add this in layers too).  The pile of spinach tends to shunt it onto your counter!

I'm munching on 9 grain and honey bread I just pulled out of the oven.  The 1/2 cup of 9 grain cereal makes for a denser loaf, but it is so tasty, paricularly after a long ferment, that you will easily forgive it for not rising higher.  There are few things to compare with fresh roasted coffee and bread fresh out of the oven.  s'cuse me theres another slice dripping with butter and calling for my attention...  :P
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 11, 2012, 09:31:57 PM
Ooo slices never tried that. I precook and drain my greens before using them in a egg pie and dice them up small. Can't use to much becuase I am the only one that loves greens in my house. Weird huh?

Your bread sounds great! I love a grainy, nutty bread!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 12, 2012, 12:00:02 PM
I grew up on canned veggies, so It took me awhile to realize veggies could taste good!  My Sweety didn't like all sorts of veggies when we got together, turned out that his problem was that he had been steaming everything. 

Spinach is one of the difficult ones.  If cooked too long it ends up looking and tasting like canned spinach!  The challenge for me has been to wilt it just enough to reduce the volume, but not totally cook it so it remains bright green.  I haven't figured out how to do this for fisherman's pie, but give me time and I'll figure it out!

Yum, that's a good idea!  I'll put some nuts in the next one.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 12, 2012, 01:43:13 PM
Anut -

Wash your greens then just shake them dry and nuke them covered with a papper towel for just a few minutes (depending on power). Pour off any water that accumulates and lay them in whatever you are making. They will wilt and stay ever so green and still have body and texture and will not soggy up anything you add them too. I do mushroom that way too because they can get really wet when baking.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 12, 2012, 03:35:25 PM
Thanks Debi!  I'll try that method.  My sweet loves spinach on pizza and that should work well.  Though the GF crust I use now will stand up to just about anything!  A good thing as I overload pizza's as well.  :)  We are having omelets tonight, I'll try to remember to take a picture.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 12, 2012, 07:45:10 PM
What's a GF crust? I am so bad at these abrieviation things! Look forward to seeing your omelette!

Found a new thing to do with coffee grounds! Make fireplace logs! I want to try it in my smoker.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 13, 2012, 11:58:06 AM
??? fire place logs?  Do they smell nice when burned? 

GF is short for gluten free. 

Here's my favorite omelet...  ;D  Goat cheddar was really good in these, but any sharp cheese is nice.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 13, 2012, 01:20:04 PM
Oh that looks good! You are wose than I am about over stuffing - although I think that would be good for two meals maybe!  ;)

I don't know how the coffee logs burn I am very curious though. Never hear of it and apparently it is something new on the market. Found it talked about on a Green Home site and it looked interesting. I may try making a few puck sized one for the smoker to see how they work. I'll let you know. It before work if I waste all my molases!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: David Helmers on March 13, 2012, 03:01:49 PM
Coffee smoked bacon, that might be good...
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 13, 2012, 06:22:22 PM
Maybe even coffee smoked cheese?

That omelet may look big enough for two, but I've learned to bulk out foods to fool the mind.  It's only 500 calories, which is fairly low as dinners go.  :)
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 13, 2012, 08:52:40 PM
Yeah it looks huge! Hmm coffee smoked cheese sounds interesting
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 19, 2012, 01:53:44 PM
Roasted a new batch of coffee, but as it's freezing outside I only did a singe roast--All Dark

Blend #2 All Dark:

10% Indian Monsooned Malabar
20% Sumatra FTO Gayo Tunas
20% Brazil Fazenda Aurea
10% Colombian Huila Valencia Supremo
20% Tanzanian Kigoma Kanyovu Coop Peaberry

I'll brew some Wednesday and post the results.

Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 19, 2012, 06:29:34 PM
Gee it was 73 here today! Go figure is March??? Hope this doens'tmean August will be really hot. I suspect dry with not snow melt this year.

Quite the combination Anut. Any reasoning behind the bleds or do you just grab some bean and go for it?
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 19, 2012, 07:20:42 PM
The only weather certainty in my area is the that it will never be the same from year to year!  :)

There is some thought to my selections.  I printed descriptions and categories for everything I have in stock.  So I can easily mix and match beans I think will go well together.  I've a dozen blends already worked out on paper.  They will have 3-6 types beans each, and most will be done in split roasts so I can do some med-dark and some very-dark.  In general, there will be 75% blending beans, and 25% for aroma & brightness.  Most of the time I will try to preserve the varietal flavors of the beans used for aroma, brightness, and any other desired trait that is lost in a dark roast.   I will slowly work my way thru all the varieties I have, trying not to use more than one unfamiliar bean at a time. 

I was paying attention and the fresh roast aroma lasts about 2 weeks.  So my batches will be limited to 1/2 to 1-1/2 pounds.

This is fun!  Today's roast smells great!  Can't wait to brew some.  :P
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 20, 2012, 06:24:09 PM
It is amazing how much different it is from buying them already roasted isn't it? Just so much better!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 20, 2012, 06:46:11 PM
Oh yeah...sigh...  It's been so long since I since I've been able to drink coffee without using cocoa and sugar to hide the taste!  I'm pretty sure smelling fresh roasted coffee is the most effective form of aroma therapy.  ^-^
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 20, 2012, 09:56:42 PM
Or a new addiction!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 21, 2012, 10:59:42 AM
There are worse addictions!

Just finished drinking a cappuccino made with Blend #2 - All Dark.  Lovely!  Very smooth and dark, with lots of chocolate.  No harsh notes and not flat at all.  This blend's beans was chosen for ability to handle a dark roast well, so I wasn't expecting it to be this smooth.  Can't wait to roast my smoothie blend!   ^-^
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 21, 2012, 12:20:00 PM
I think you have already found the wonders of fresh roasting at home! I am glad you are enjoying it. I tend to leave all my beans pure and mix at the pot so to speak. I did once use my french press and make several types of coffees, try them all separately then mix the brewed coffees too that was fun. I also managed with all the cups all over the counter to lanch my press which shattered into a million pieces so I need to order a new one. Coffee experiments can be fun.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 21, 2012, 02:05:31 PM
There are worse things than a broken press.  One morning I made coffee with a Melita drip and half asleep I put the carafe on the stove instead of the kettle.  Eventually the plastic cone melted and fell on the floor.  It burned a big hole in the kitchen floor and covered the walls and ceiling with and oily black smoke.   :-[

I really would like to try most beans by themselves, but unless I can roast less than 8 ounces, I end up with more roasted coffee than I can consume in two weeks.  So I can only run three bean blends separately at a time, 8 ounce each, which I will do on a number of blends to come.  The 3 bean blends should be done first, but it's been cooold.  :o  I don't want to sit out there thru 3 separate roasts!

That's a question no one seems to answer... How small a batch can you run with a stove top popper??  I'll have to try it with some beans I don't mind losing a few of.

I would have roasted my own coffee decades ago had I known how easy and delicious it was!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 21, 2012, 07:03:45 PM
I would imagine you could rast a single bean if you wanted too. I so 8 oz batches becuase theat is the BIGGEST I can do in my little fresh roast. We use baout 3 - 4 pounds a week in the winter and a litttle less in the summer. So i will do about 4 or 5 types a week. The little fresh roast doesn't put out to much smoke so I just do it on my stove with the fan exast on. Makes it really hard for me to hear the 1st crack though.I really like the cool down feature and the almost hands off ability to dial in exactly how I want it.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 21, 2012, 08:31:36 PM
I'm finding determining the beginning 2nd crack is a problem with blends.  I can hear if I crank slower, but they starting cracking over a long period -- 3 or 4 minutes!  The best I can do is wait for the BIG smoke.  Shortly thereafter when I can't see the beans because of the smoke, let them go another 10-30 seconds, and yank 'em off the heat.  Total roast time is 12 to 15 minutes.

Are you counting in from 1st crack?  I thought I would quickly wish I had gotten a Roaster like yours, but the stove top popper hasn't disappointed me yet.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 22, 2012, 10:54:55 AM
I have a timer on mine that counts backwards and I write down  things like time of the 1st crack time to the second crack, time to oil comes out then use that to adjust my timings. I also write the fan speed and heat setting used for each roast and see a big difference in flavor just changing the fan speed or the heat setting from one roast to the next. I find that high heat and fan at the begining and medium heat towards the end makes it less bitter. Overall I still go by color but the timing stays pretty close to 7.30 to 9 minutes total cook time for all beans and then I do 2 cool down cycles before dumping the beans in a tin tray for further cooling.

I know a lot of people that use the whirly pop method and love it. One of my guys at work asked for some beans and roasted them in his fireplace wiith his ole style popcorn maker. They tasted pretty good and he did a good job shaking the beans they were pretty even considering there's no way to stir just a big stick with a pot and cover.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Beans on March 31, 2012, 06:31:26 PM
Whoever started this thread - thank you.  I just tried some home roasted coffee and it was fantastic.   I started with Papua New Guinea beans from Burmans.  Roasted it in a our old popcorn spinner and the brew turned out great.  Cant wait  to try a few others.
Thanks again
B
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 31, 2012, 08:27:10 PM
Your welcome Beans!  Post your results and pictures sometime.  It's fun to share the experience. 

Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 31, 2012, 08:30:19 PM
Whoever started this thread - thank you.  I just tried some home roasted coffee and it was fantastic.   I started with Papua New Guinea beans from Burmans.  Roasted it in a our old popcorn spinner and the brew turned out great.  Cant wait  to try a few others.
Thanks again
B

I really love those guys!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 31, 2012, 09:12:48 PM
I'm pretty happy with Burmans too.  His beans and prices are very good.  I can understand his descriptions reasonably well too!  Some people get just a little too fanciful for me to understand!

I decided  to try Blend#2 again with different beans at different roasts:

10% Monsooned Malabar
20% Sumatra FTO Gayo Tunas
20% Brazil NNO
10% Colombian D.P.d. Tolima
20% Tanzanian Peaberry

Batch 1 french       ok but not exciting
Batch 2 vienna       Doug said yech
Batch 3 espresso   didn’t try yet
Batch 4 full city      not horrible, but not good either

This batch was not smooth and chocolaty

This leads me to believe that Doug and I do not like lighter roasts and they should only be used for a highlight coffees like Columbian when you want to add some acidity to a blend.

Sumatra’s will likely require an Espresso Or French roast to be palatable, and or an extended roast to reduce mustiness (18 min.?).

I also learned that with dark roasts, the beans you use do matter.  This batch did not have the smooth chocolates that the first roast of blend #2 had in abundance.

Blend #2 All Dark, 1st roast-espresso--smooth and chocolaty!!

10% Indian Monsooned Malabar
20% Sumatra Gayo Mandheling
20% Brazil Fazenda Aurea
10% Colombian Huila Valencia Supremo
20% Tanzanian Kigoma Kanyovu Coop Peaberry

I keep searching for a flavor that's missing.  As I have enjoyed dark oily roasts all my life, I'm guessing I need to roast at least some of the beans even darker.  So just for fun I decided to roast a sumatra I didn't like and take it all the way to an Italian roast (60 seconds into the thick smoke).   I'll brew it in a few days and see what I think.  It may be a good blender to get some of the flavors I'm missing.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on March 31, 2012, 10:31:13 PM
I've pretty much decided I like all the coffees very dark a few seconds past oily.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on March 31, 2012, 11:09:14 PM
Surprising isn't it?  I've been calling a few seconds past oily (the thick smoke) Espresso? No one seems to agree on what roast when! To listen to Sweet Maria talk, you would think all beans are the same after Full City and hopelessly burnt! 

Using the smoke for a guide is working pretty well.  The thick smoke doesn't happen until the oil starts to rise to the top of the bean.  So you really don't have to worry about where in what crack you are as you can easily count out from the thick smoke that begins some time after 2nd crack begins.  The Temperature probe showed 370-381 degrees for 30 to 60 seconds into the thick smoke.  I'll try to remember to notice and write it down in the future to see if it's a reliable indicator.

Beginning of thick smoke = Espresso

30 seconds in thick smoke = French Roast

60 seconds in to thick smoke = Italian Roast
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Caseus on April 01, 2012, 01:55:54 AM
I've been roasting coffee since last September.  I use a Whirly Popper also, just like anut.  I do mine outdoors on a propane stove.  I drilled a hole in the lid for a thermometer.  The thermometer measures air temperature, not bean temp, as it isn't touching the beans. 

I heat the Whirly Popper to 400 degrees air temperature, then dump in the green beans, start my timer, and start slowly cranking.  I just listen for first crack and second crack. 

I try to hit first crack between 6 and 7 minutes.  First crack will go on for about a minute and a half.  Then I aim for another couple of minutes to get to second crack.  I'll dump and start cooling at the very first sign of first crack for City+ roast, about 15 seconds in for Full City, 25 seconds for Full City+.   40 seconds gets me to Vienna roast, but I will cut the fire off at Full City+ and just coast another 15 or 20 seconds for Vienna. 

I don't go any darker than Vienna, normally.  It depends on the bean.  Full City+ seems to be my favorite roast level for most beans.  I used to be a huge fan of  French roast coffee, but since I started roasting my own, I've found that I prefer somewhat lighter roasts.  I can taste a lot of things at lighter roasts that I can't taste in a French or Vienna roast. 

I like to roast two half pound (actually 8.35 oz) batches back to back in the Whirly Popper.  That'll yield me about a pound of roasted coffee, which lasts me six days.  I often blend beans from multiple sources, unless I have a single origin that is just outstanding.   
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 01, 2012, 12:14:39 PM
Hi Caseus,

Yes, I was expecting to enjoy lighter roasts and was surprised I haven't so far.  I haven't given up though.  There are a lot of variables that factor in besides the beans and roast.  The grind and the extraction also make a big difference in the flavor.  I've only been able to pull 15 seconds per double load which would give me very under extracted coffee.  So I'm not getting a good picture of the beans and roasts I've been trying.  I've decided to invest in a burr grinder so I will have more control over the final flavor.  Eventually I'll get a better espresso machine, as water temp's important and mine is automatic, but a good grinder seemed more important.  I'll try to make a point of making strong drip coffee of each batch in the future as poorly pulled espresso magnifies problems and overwhelms my taste buds.

How do you like your whirly pop?  I'm pretty happy with mine.  I like the control it gives you to speed up or slow down a roast at any point in the process.  I can't control the total roast time as well though.  The outside temp and wind can change things quite a bit, so I tend to get a range of 12-15 minutes.

Which single origins have you found to be outstanding?
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Caseus on April 01, 2012, 03:33:39 PM
I like my Whirly Pop just fine.  It does a great job, and as you say, it gives you plenty of control since you can raise or lower your heat or move it off the burner to keep your temps in range.  I just let it cool then wipe it out with a dry paper towel after each batch.  I wash it only when accumulated grunge starts flaking off the underside of the lid. 

The only thing I don't like about it is the small batch size.  I'd prefer to do 3 or 4 pounds of coffee at a time, and freeze it in 1/2 pound quantities (in a pint mason jar) after 2 or 3 days of degassing.    One of these days I'm going to buy an RK Drum and convert a barbeque grill to a coffee roaster.  That should also help reduce the effects of wind, which as you said, can alter your timings from one day to the next.   I try to roast when it's not windy, but that's not always possible.

I get all of my green beans from Sweet Marias.  My favorite to date has been Guatemala Bourbon Finca San Diego Buena Vista.  The 20 pounds I bought is nearly gone, and there is no more of it available to buy.  At least, not from the most recent crop.  Mexico Organic Chiapas Proish Coop was another I liked as an SO.  Again, there is no more of it available.   Panama Las Flores de Boquete was one that was not clean enough to suit me as an SO, but when I blended it with an Ethiopian Yirga Cheffe and a little Sumatra Tarbarita Peaberry, it made a great morning cup.  El Salvador Santa Ana Naranjo made a great espresso.  I roasted it Full City. 

The only problem I find with Sweet Marias is that they get fairly small lots of usually exceptional coffee.  Often by the time you find one you really like, they're sold out.  So now when I see a new one that has a review that appeals to me, I order a pound and try it.  If I like, it, I'll place a larger order of 5 to 20 pounds, depending on how I plan to use it.

I'm still relatively new to home roasting, so I wouldn't consider myself especially knowledgeable.  But so far I have found that I prefer a clean cup, so I gravitate to South American coffees, which tend to be cleaner in profile than African or Indonesian coffees.  However, I really love a good low-acid Sumatran for the rich body it provides, so long as it doesn't have a moldy character.  Some do.  And I like some Kenyan and Ethiopian coffees if they aren't overly floral.   By and large, when I blend, the base will be South American, and I'll use small amounts of Indonesian or African coffees to round out the blend.

Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 01, 2012, 04:36:09 PM
Thanks!  It nice to hear what others find good in beans.  I was a little disappointed to go thru the listings and find out much of what I wanted to try was unavailable thru Sweet Maria's.  Between Bruman's and Sweet Maria's I think I found enough variety to play with for a while.

I have the reverse problem as you.  I have some many beans/blends I want to tinker with that I'm going to have to do smaller batches.  It would be my luck that the bean/blend I fall in love with will be out of stock before I can order more!

What type/s of coffee do you drink?  Espresso, French press...??
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Caseus on April 01, 2012, 04:54:52 PM
I drink espresso, french press, and drip mainly.  I have two sizes of French press pot.  I have a Cona vacuum pot that I use occasionally, and a couple of Turkish pots that I use rarely.  I use an Aeropress from time to time.  My espresso machine is a Vibiemme Domobar Super HX espresso machine, and it is need of repair at the moment.  My drip pot is a Technivorm Moccamaster.

What styles and preparation methods do you like, anut?
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 01, 2012, 05:39:12 PM
Pour over and espresso, but I'm very curious about trying French Press and Turkish coffee.  I rarely make pour over coffee anymore except for camping.  It's hard to get it strong enough so it doesn't taste like flavored water.  I was using a stove top expresso maker, but didn't like the burned taste and found myself always adding cocoa to hide it.  I received a Mr Coffee espresso machine for my birthday,  and as far as I can tell it works fine, but the whirly blade grinder I've been using just can't do the job right.  So I never get a good long extraction.  The grinder I have on order (Baratza Virtuoso Preciso) will grind any style I want, superfine to very coarse, so I though it would be fun to try some new styles. 
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Caseus on April 01, 2012, 07:21:50 PM
You are going to love that Baratza grinder.  I have the Vario.  It has a huge adjustment range, and it grinds the coffee perfectly without heating it up.

I also have a couple of stovetop Neopolitan style pots.  My impression of them matches yours.  The coffee tastes overcooked. Not really like a good espresso.  I don't use them anymore.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 01, 2012, 08:58:15 PM
Some coffees are best lighter but we seem to like alot of the daeker ones. I like somewhere between a full city and a vienna roast on most of my beans.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 01, 2012, 10:12:29 PM
I was careful, will a few exceptions for highlights, to pick only beans that withstood dark roasts... just in case! I'm hoping that the problem is really just not pulling a good shot.  I've been trying to figure out where I going wrong and based on what I've been reading, a 15 second shot is too short and the resulting coffee sour/acidic.   So I will try every thing I didn't like, beans and light roasts, again when my new grinder comes as that may make all the difference.  In the meanwhile I'll just brew pour over coffee... I should have been doing that anyway to better evaluate new beans.

I am excited about my new grinder!  440 settings from Turkish to French press!  Almost no fines and very little residual grounds left in the grinder.  That really bugged me.  A lot of grinders had that problem, which defeats the purpose of grinding your own. I don't want a part of yesterdays grind in today's shot!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 02, 2012, 07:45:43 PM
I tried the Sumatra I roasted to an Italian Roast.  I think that was overkill, but it will be great for blending.  French Roast is my outside limit for drinking by itself. 

I had fun playing with my new grinder this afternoon.  I still have not found the balance between grind, dose, and tamping.  My shots are still too short, except of one that I tamped to hard and it stopped the flow early.  I tried adding a touch of sugar to one and the flavor is excellent, so I think the blend is fine.  The shots are just too acidic and they shouldn't be, so I just need a longer pull to bring out the caramels.

I'll give it another go tomorrow.  Any more caffeine in my system and I'll bouncing of the walls all night!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 02, 2012, 09:02:25 PM
I am not really into expresso yet. We make it at work but something is not right about it. Tastes ... powdery or something. Tried amlost burning some beans and it was better but still something missing.

I read somewhere about this pour over thingy called the "Clever Coffee Dripper."  verypne was talking about this wonderful coffee so I ordered it from Sweet Maria's. Makes a very smooth tasting coffee not bitter at all but am thinking maybe I need a finer grind than I normally use it was kind of weak even though I used 1.5 scoops (I use 4 for a full pot). I even tried some crapy MaxwellHouse from work and it was pretty smooth but weak.

I have been using the same grinder for about 20 years and decided I needed a new one so I ordered a burr grinder from Burmans.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 03, 2012, 11:45:08 AM
Pour over is challenging!  How does clever coffee work? 

Love my new grinder!  I finally got a long pull (30 seconds).  I tamped on top of my kitchen scale so I could see when I got to 30 pounds.  I used 14 grams coffee ground at 9/E and  tamped with 30 pounds.  The flavor is still not where I want yet.  So I order a non-pressurized portafilter.  When that arrives I should quickly have all my ducks in a row (well maybe not temp, but I can do anything about that variable)... Knock on wood!

Hope you love your new grinder!  :)
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 03, 2012, 06:36:24 PM
the "Clever Coffee Dripper"  has a little suspended bottom that  when ditting on the counter stays shut and let's the coffee steep and when it sits on your cuo it pushes up letting the coffee run out. It also has a lid to hold the steam in. It uses a fitler to hold the grounds and I guess the objest it to find the right amount of water and time to get the mix you want. Here is a demo.

Clever Coffee Dripper Demo - weeklyroast.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwIn2fRRmCk#)
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 03, 2012, 07:16:20 PM
Awesome!  That would be great for camping and such.  My Espresso machine delivers water that's really to cool to extract properly so acidity may continue to be and issue and I will likely not be able to use any bright coffees in an espresso blend, so the Clever Coffee Dripper would be a great place to use my brighter beans.  I found instructions on how to modify my espresso maker so it will heat the water hotter, but just looking at the instructions makes my brain hurt!  Hopefully I can find someone that understands that stuff to help me with it.  I did run into a very useful tip though.  If I let the first second or two of stream run before I put my cup in, and I pull it before it gets blonde, I will then have the middle portion which contains most of the caramels and little acidity or bitterness.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 03, 2012, 07:23:31 PM
Hmmm a cool brewer? I always heard it has to be hot close to boiling to get a good extraction.

Watching that video again I wonder if stirring makes a difference? I just dumped the waer in and waited for a bit. The new grinder came in tonight now I just have to roast more beans! I think I have half a bag left.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 03, 2012, 08:47:58 PM
Just half a bag?  I thought you were sitting on a huge stockpile of beans!  I always find my grinding finer than recommended. So I would start at med-fine.  Stirring just breaks up clumps.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 04, 2012, 09:11:46 PM
Oh the half bag is of the roasted beans, I still have easily over 100 pounds of beans in stock! Got some of those tin cans with the pressure valve thingy to try with the new grinder. I pulverized the snot outtamy Columbia tonight! Thought I'd dump the rest of the roasted beans in there and dial it up to very fine. Didn't go as fine as I could have but it's almost powder! Better look at the instructions!

(http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/Q-View/FineGrind.jpg)

Roasted some Maui Red/Yellow Kaanpali today. Took it past the second crack into oilly and light smoke.

(http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/Q-View/Red-Yellow.jpg)(http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/Q-View/RedYellowRstGrn.jpg)

Also roasted some El Salvador Honey Cerro Las Ranas today. The suggested roast is before the second crack.

(http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/Q-View/HoneyLasRanas.jpg)(http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/Q-View/HoneyLasRanasRstGrn.jpg)

I will try a pot tomorrow after it has a chance to expel the excess CO2.

Last but not least I did some Costa Rican Tarrazu "San Marcos" The suggested roast is just past the second crack.
(http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/Q-View/SanMarccos.jpg)(http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/Q-View/SanMarcoRstGrn.jpg)

This is a nice cup!

Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 04, 2012, 09:23:44 PM
They look simply ravishing! 

I'm starting to get the hang of the dose/grind/timing thing.  I letting first 2 seconds  pour into the drain and then trying to stop before the stream turns pale.  There was a noticeable improvement. 
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 04, 2012, 09:32:13 PM
If it were that easy we would have barista schools!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Caseus on April 04, 2012, 10:10:10 PM
Those do look lovely.  I would definitely try that El Salvador "Honey" Cerro Las Ranas for espresso.  The darker roasts look like what I want in my morning drip pot.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 05, 2012, 02:03:55 PM
I am trying the Honey Las Ranas now in the drip pot - very good. Sweet, caramely, a hint of maltiness ay the end. I would call this an all day sipper. Very pleasent. Might make a great latte' as well. I could see this as a dessert coffee. Just ordered another 10 pounds while they have it. That'll give me 20 pounds to last the year.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 05, 2012, 02:59:36 PM
I sent an email to Mr Coffee to let them know that their machine was only heating to 150 degrees.  They are sending me a new one with no hassel.  Cool, I hope this one heats properly.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 05, 2012, 03:02:12 PM
Nice to see there is still a few companies that care about their customers.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 16, 2012, 11:43:19 AM
I devised a few blends with low acidity so even with poor extraction due to low water temperatures they would not be harsh or acidic.  Then my espresso machine broke down, so I've been using it mixed with another pour over blend I roasted.  Both blends are very smooth and mixed together they make a really pleasant cup of coffee no matter how strong you make it!  These blends are keepers!  :P

Low Acid Blends #6a

1 ounce Monsooned Malabar
2 ounce Brazil Cerrado Fazenda NNO
3 ounce Indonesian Org. RFA Flores Bajawa
2 ounce Malawi Manpanga AA
Espresso to French

* roasted for 16 minutes, until probe temp was 370 degrees, for a nice Vienna.  Very smooth and pleasant flavor.  Almost too smooth for a pour over.  Should make for a nice Espresso.

Pour over blend #1

4 ounces Indonesian Org. RFA Flores Bajawa
4 ounces Tanzanian Kigoma Kanyovu coop Peaberry

Roasted 16 minutes, until probe temp was 375.  This should have been Espresso, but I peeked to many times and it ended up being close to French.  In the future when trying to use temp as a guide—no peeking as it let’s out the heat in the pot that the probe is measuring.  This is very smooth, almost too smooth for a pour over.  This would be a good espresso.  I only got to try it once before the machine broke, soo  ????

I've been watching the chamber temperature and as long as I don't peek much I can use the probe temp predict the style roast.  The range for the roasts I like ranges from 370 to 380 degrees chamber/probe temp.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: knipknup on April 16, 2012, 06:11:58 PM
Great post.  I have been roasting a bit too.  Here's what I've learned so far...

The Whirley Pop Popcorn Popper: this thing works great.  I use one on the side-burner attached to my grill.  I didn't think to add a thermometer as the one pictured on page 2 of this thread, but have one and will use it next time.  I have learned that the more I open the lid, the longer the roast takes.  I love the smell and like to see how the color of the beans change, but have to break this habit.  An important note: If you don't roast often, clean your popper.  The coffee oils will mold as I found out the hard way.

Cooling the beans: I use an adjustable strainer - the metal kind with leaves that fold up and down to adjust the size. After I pour the beans back and forth between two pans and let the wind blow away the chaff, I pour onto the strainer and place it on my air conditioning duct in the summer or on the deck railing in the winter.  The airflow has the beans cooled within about 2 minutes.

Have you seen any adverse effect with spraying the beans with water?
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 16, 2012, 08:05:26 PM
Thanks for the tips!  I would never have thought to put the beans on my air conditioning unit.  I really like how fast you can lose heat by having several cold heavy steel baking pans to pour the beans into! 

I'll remember to smell the chamber first, after a long period of disuse.  :o  Mold doesn't go well with any blend!   

It is hard not to peek.  I made it ALL the way thru without peeking on todays roast and at 375 degrees I had a nice Vienna roast.  Next roast I'll try roasting to 380, with no peeking period, and see what I get.

I spray the beans (3-4 squirts only) immediately after pouring the beans out of the popper.  So far this has worked fine, no adverse effects that I can tell.  Have you had problems with it??
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 16, 2012, 09:15:52 PM
Your pot should be fine as long as you clean it out well after using.  I rub mine down with papper towels to remove the oils and never wet them.

How do you like the peaberry Anut? I seem to really like the peaberries in all the types I have tried. I read somewhere they were sub-standard or something but I really like the flavor best. Where you find the Tanzanian Kigoma Kanyovu coop Peaberry? I haven't seen that one yet.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Caseus on April 16, 2012, 09:18:16 PM
I've never cooled with water.  I do like knipknup and pour the beans back and forth from one colander to another.  This rapidly stops them from further cooking, and as a bonus, it gets rid of all the chaff.  I've learned not to stand downwind when doing this.   :)  As much as I love the smell of freshly roasted coffee, I don't like wearing the intensely aromatic chaff confetti.   

I have a small desk fan that I point straight up and set the colander on top of it for a few minutes, then dump the beans into a large aluminum baking sheet to finish cooling. 

I've never had mold in my whirlypop, but I use it regularly, every six or seven days.  I wipe out chaff and surface oil after each use with a clean paper towel.  I've only needed to scrub it once since I started roasting last August.  It gets lightly browned, but it seems pretty clean.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: knipknup on April 17, 2012, 09:47:45 AM
I figured my whirley-pop was properly seasoned but then didn't roast coffee for a couple months.  When I pulled it out to roast, the inside of the pot and lid were covered in a green fuzz.  I didn't see what it tasted like.  Before storing, I had only wiped it out with dry paper towels, but not too vigorously.  Now I clean it better and use more often.

I have never sprayed the roasted beans  with water so can't comment on that.

I am becoming better at roasting by sound only and not peeking, though I still peek a few times  8)
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 17, 2012, 12:23:28 PM
Hi Debi,

Burman's has that peaberry.  I'm pretty sure I like the peaberry, but I over roasted the blend that was supposed to showcase it.  French Roast is too dark for evaluation purposes.  I did notice that I like the blends that use the East African coffees better than the blends that use Colombian beans (I'm using the mellow East Africans).  Also, the low acid blend was really good at a Vienna roast and normally I don't like Vienna much!  Very Significant, will have to play further to know anything for sure.  The reason for not liking Vienna may be due to the Espresso maker I was using, as it's temp was too low and I was pulling short acidic shots.  I'll have to make a point of brewing a pour over of each blend before I make espresso with it.  I'm steeping the grounds in a thermos for 4 minutes before pouring thru a filter.  That's working out quite nice.

Hi Caseus,

 ;D I covered myself in chaff the first time too.  Now I pay attention to which way the wind is coming from!  I like your use of a fan and I think this will be the method I use in the future as the days get warmer.

Hi Knipknup,

I find I'm not really sure when 2nd crack begins and ends.  It sounds to me like it goes on for 4 minutes (total roast is 12 - 16 minutes)!  I don't like beans roasted to the end of the 2nd and am reluctant roast that far too often.  I'm using blends, and that may be why it goes on longer as different beans roasts in different amounts of time.  This makes it challenging to roast by counting into the 2nd crack.  I've had better luck at using using the change in smoke as a starting point and counting in from that.  Easier yet will be using the temp of the roast chamber.

I wish I learned about this sooner!  I love roasting my own coffee!  There are so many more wonderful flavors than I could ever have imagined!  With experience I should be able to roast and blend all types of beans to their very best flavor.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: knipknup on April 17, 2012, 01:44:57 PM
You mention roasts by names - vienna, italian, etc, do these correlate directly to city, full city, etc?

I love the French Roast k-cups sold in bulk at Costco, but all my roasts have been mild in comparison across several different bean types and med to dark roasts.

With my latest batch, I stopped about 90sec into the second crack (more like a sizzle than a crack).  Beans were more oily than the light and med roasts but sill lacked the roasty flavor.  I'm a bit reluctant to push it longer and end up with a pot of ash.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Caseus on April 17, 2012, 03:44:21 PM
i use Sweet Maria's roast scale depicted here:  https://www.sweetmarias.com/library/content/using-sight-determine-degree-roast (https://www.sweetmarias.com/library/content/using-sight-determine-degree-roast)

It runs from green unroasted to imminent fire.   ;D
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: knipknup on April 17, 2012, 05:11:49 PM
Wow, I never realized there was more on the Sweet Maria's website beyond ordering.  Thanks for the link.  I'm learning tons on this board already and it isn't all about cheese!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 17, 2012, 05:34:04 PM
I find Sweet MAiras hard to use because most of the beans still look green to me. The chart in my ebook it closer to true colors.


http://deejayssmokepit.net/RoastingCoffee_files/DeejaysCoffeeBeanBasics.pdf (http://deejayssmokepit.net/RoastingCoffee_files/DeejaysCoffeeBeanBasics.pdf)


http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/RoastingCoffee.htm (http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/RoastingCoffee.htm)


You notice when you first start roasting just before the first crack is smells kind of grassy, then just as the first crack ends it moves to almost peanuts then the coffee smell starts to shine through and if you look close you will see little bits off smoke and your into the second crack. Now your getting oil and have to watch or you'lll burn your beans.

Coffee should be raosted at between 10 and 18 minutes to maximize the flavors.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 17, 2012, 06:21:14 PM
Thanks Debi,  you've got a treasure trove of knowledge stowed away! 

Yes, I've noticed that everyone seems to have a different idea of roasts.  It really doesn't matter as long as you know what you like and how to get there predictably!  When the smoke starts to get too thick to see the color of the beans you know that the oils are coming to the surface and 2nd crack underway.  For me I've found that if I stop immediately I get Vienna, count in for 30 seconds for Espresso, count in 60 seconds for French Roast.  When you're done roasting how much oil is on the surface?  I find that easier to work with than a color chart.  But I would suspect the amount of oil showing at any particular roast is affected by how long you took to get to that roast...  I'll have to remember to make notes of things like that in the future.

Just a suggestion Knipknup.  Take some inexpensive beans and deliberately go to the end of 2nd crack.  They won't too tasty, but you'll know what it sounds, looks, and smells like when you approach the end.  I totally killed my first batch(Italian/Spanish) and found that they made great blenders with lighter roasts, so don't throw them away.  By themselves they were flat and charred.

I wish I could smell what's happening, but so far that eludes me...
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 17, 2012, 06:41:04 PM
Yes Anut I am a data junkie!

I have a few beans I take too the second crack and go another 10 to 15 seconds. I find the oil starts AFTER the second crack not before - but I can hear it in my roaster. Once you have smoke your way past the second crack.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 17, 2012, 08:45:27 PM
  :-\  You're confusing me Debi!  I agree, the oil comes up after 2nd crack begins.  I phrased that poorly-- it should have said "2nd crack is well underway" It's after that I have trouble as 2nd crack goes on for a long time, 4 minutes or so.  The difficulty is in determining how far into 2nd crack to go.  I have trouble telling when it started, but I do notice when the smoke starts thickening and obscuring my view.  Relative to that thickening I can count and stop at the roast I want.  If I went by when I think I hear 2nd crack begin, my roast would be too light.  What I call Vienna is when beans are a nice dark brown and dry, with maybe a dot or two of oil if you really look hard.  I get this if I stop when the smoke starts to thicken.  So I can't be that far into 2nd crack????
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 17, 2012, 10:16:53 PM
I Think your roasting lasts longer than mine does because you do more at once. My little roaster only holds about 1/4 pound at a time. I do like mine a bit darker. There are some beans that are best with a good bit of oil as you saw in the pictures of my last roast and some are better lighter. Take time to figure it out. I am still experimenting with one bean at a time and roasting them at different ranges. Some lighter roast bring out more acidity, fuller body  and more brightness and some darker roasts bring out more carmel and less acidity and stronger flavor so a blend of the same bean roasted to different levels can also change the flavor and body of your coffee. Most coffee cupping is done at a lower mid range roast oddly enough to jusdge the beans.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: knipknup on April 18, 2012, 07:53:32 AM
Thanks for the tip anut.

I roasted about a half pound last night and stopped about 15 seconds into the second crack.  No oil on the beans and a nice brown.  The cup this morning is mild with a chalky bitterness at the finish.  I'm sure some of the flavor has to do with the bean type, which is another 'search' I haven't started.  As you can see, I'm not very practiced at describing the flavor or taste profile :)

I did notice that, with the warmer weather, the roast only took about 12-15 minutes.  I didn't take any notes, just looked at my watch at the beginning.  I did install a dial thermometer on my whirley-pop and it hit just over 350F.

This one is from Sweet Maria's - Ethiopia Illubador - Camp Cooperative.  It was one from the 8 pound sampler.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Caseus on April 18, 2012, 11:17:55 AM
knipknup and anut, are you starting your beans in a cold Whirlypop?  I preheat mine.  I have a deep fry thermometer inserted in a hole I drilled in the lid.  It reaches down to about an inch and a half above the bottom of the popper, so it is measuring air temperature only.  I light a cigar, then I heat the popper until the dial hits 400 degrees, then I dump in the beans, close the lid, start the clock, take another puff on my cigar, and start cranking about a revolution per second.  Of course, the cigar is not essential to the process.  I just enjoy smoking a cigar while I'm roasting.   :)

The temperature drops steadily over a couple of minutes from 400 degrees to about 300 degrees when I put the beans in.  I have to adjust the heat up or down on my propane stove depending on outside temperature and/or wind to keep it from going lower than 300 and to hit my target of having the first crack start somewhere between 6 and 7 minutes.  First crack runs about 1.5 minutes, discounting a few early and late outliers.  By then, I'm usually back up to around 350 to 360 degrees. 

Then I try to slow the process down a bit so I get a slower ramp up to 375 to 385 for second crack.  I move the popper off the burner to maintain the temperature at 350/360 for 30 seconds to a minute, then I put it back on the heat, adjust my burner, and go for second crack.  How long I leave it off the heat and how I adjust the burner depends on ambient temperature and wind.  You just have to develop a feel for it given your roasting conditions.  I'm aim for starting second crack about 9 to 10 minutes into the roast.  If my roast time to reach second crack is over 12 minutes, I notice that the coffee tastes somewhat flat. 

Depending on what roast level I'm aiming for, I will stop the roast anywhere from the start of second crack up to 45 seconds into it.  I usually have about a 5 to 10 second coast time that I allow for, which gives me time to pour the roasted beans into the colander and move a short distance away to keep the chaff from getting all over my porch.

Note that all of the temperatures I give are of the air inside the popper over the beans.  I'm not sure how well that may correspond to the temperatures reported by  purpose-built coffee roasters during various stages and levels of roast.  Many of those are measuring actual bean temperature, because they usually have a probe that is touching the beans.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 18, 2012, 11:53:49 AM
Hi Debi,

I noticed that some of your beans were very shiny, but the color was a medium brown, not dark, how does that happen??  Now that I've discovered a steeped pour over, I'm going to start running 2 bean type combos and 1 bean split into different roasts starting at Vienna/Full City+.  I suspect that my espresso maker gave me a bad representation of the various beans.  With the stove top popper it's actually pretty easy to shorten or lengthen the total roast time and I've been extending the roasts lately to see what the difference is like.  I don't like too much acidity so I doubt I'll want to go much lighter than Vienna, but I'll give lighter roasts a try with the mellower beans.

Hi knipknup,

My vocabulary is limited to smooth, chocolaty, harsh, acidic and nasty.  ;D  I've brewed very dark roasts so long I think it's going to take awhile to figure out any other flavors!  That thermometer will make your roasts so much easier!  I haven't been brave enough to try any of the more acidic of the East African beans, but I'm pretty sure I like the mellow ones.  I'm going to try to take better notes on future roasts, in the hope of learning more.

Hi Caseus,

Yes, I preheat mine to 500 degrees.  I've been playing with the total length of roast and speeding up or slowing down the roast at certain points, but I don't have any opinions just yet.  The low acid blend I just finish drinking was roasted for a total time of 16 minutes.  First crack was at 6-7 minutes and 2nd crack started around ? minutes.. already forgot!  I loved this blend after I got used to it's smoothness.  At first I thought it might be bland, but it really wasn't.  I was just not used to coffee that smooth and pleasant.  I used 36 grams of coffee steeped in 2 cups water for 4 minutes.  Very strong, rich, chocolaty, thick.  Unfortunately, I also discovered that my body did not agree with my taste buds.  That cup had me bouncing off the walls! Caffeine overload!  I have to use milk so it's hard for me to differentiate between the characteristics caused by the coffee or the milk. 

I don't think most temps will compare to what we get in the stove top poppers.  But within a few more roasts I think I should have it pretty well worked out.  What I want learn is the chamber temps that correspond to the roasts I like and also, I want to see if the chamber temps for the roasts are the same if you slow down or speed up the total roast.

I love the smell of cigars and pipes.  Too bad they don't make cigarettes that smell nice!  Nasty things.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 18, 2012, 02:58:16 PM

Pour over Blend # 2

3 parts Colombian Huila Valencia Supremo
5 parts Brazil Cerrado Fazenda NNO
Roast from Vienna to French roast

Roasted to Vienna (375 degrees) and let sit 48 hours.  The flavor is basically good, but it’s just a bit harsh/acidic for me.  The milk I use keeps this blend palatable, but next time I'll try a darker roast or less Colombian.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 18, 2012, 04:00:22 PM
Hi Debi,

I noticed that some of your beans were very shiny, but the color was a medium brown, not dark, how does that happen??  Now that I've discovered a steeped pour over, I'm going to start running 2 bean type combos and 1 bean split into different roasts starting at Vienna/Full City+.  I suspect that my espresso maker gave me a bad representation of the various beans.  With the stove top popper it's actually pretty easy to shorten or lengthen the total roast time and I've been extending the roasts lately to see what the difference is like.  I don't like too much acidity so I doubt I'll want to go much lighter than Vienna, but I'll give lighter roasts a try with the mellower beans.

Anut -

I suspect they look lighter than they are due to the flash on my camera they are really a shade beyond chocolate and the lights in my kitchen are those curley bulbs that always look yellowish.

Acidic is not a word used to specifically mean it will burn your tummy but a word used to describe the feeling on your tongue like bright or snappy...

 here are some terms that may help us all from coffee-illuminated.com


Body


The best way to describe the Body that a coffee has is how its weight feels on your tongue. Imagine the difference you can feel in your mouth between skim and whole milk- there is a considerable difference in thickness and weight.

When coffee is brewed, it releases oils and solids, these are what determines the body that you perceive. If you are just starting out with tasting coffees it may be difficult to tell the difference in body from one coffee to the next.  Try adding the same amount of milk to two different but equal cups of coffee.  The coffee with a heavier body will hold more of its flavor after it has been diluted.


Acidity


Similar to wine, acidity has a large part of how coffee is tasted.  It can quickly determine if someone will love a coffee or hate it all depending upon its acidity. The acidity of a coffee does NOT describe whether a coffee is bitter or sour.  A good coffee should never have these characteristics.  Acidity is a crisp, bright, lively taste in your mouth, one that should please you, not make you squint as if you just tasted a lemon!  It may leave a dry feeling on your tongue... this is ok and the extent is purely a personal preference.

The only thing to watch out for with acidity in a coffee is that it may upset your stomach.  Some coffees naturally have a higher or lower acidity.  Also, there are brewing methods to help remove up to 70% of coffee’s acidity like the cold water toddy. Without any acidity however, coffee would taste very bland.


Aroma
If you don’t already know, your sense of smell is directly related to your sense of taste.  If a coffee smells very rich and robust, you can expect the taste to have these characteristics as well.  If a coffee smells mild and weak, chances are it will taste that way too.


Flavor
Finally we get to flavor.  This is the part that is very similar to wine in that coffee flavors can fall into many categories and learning to recognize them will take time and tasting a wide variety of coffees.  Here are just a few typical flavor characteristics:

Richness - deals with the body, its fullness

Complexity - if you’re having trouble pinpointing any individual flavors, the coffee is probably a complex blend consisting of multiple flavors and characteristics

Bright, Dry, Sharp, or Snappy - these are characteristics of the acidity in coffee
Chocolaty - Many coffees will offer a lingering taste of chocolate
Caramelly - Some coffees feel almost syrupy sweet in the mouth
Delicate - a slight flavor felt just on the tip of your tongue
Earthy - a soily characteristic
Fragrant - an aroma that can range from floral to spicy
Fruity - some coffees leave a taste of berries or citrus in you mouth
Mellow - like mentioned above, a lack of acidity with a smooth taste
Nutty - a lingering taste of roasted nuts
Spicy - sometimes you can taste a hint of a spice such as cardamom or pepper
Winey - an aftertaste of an aged wine

Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: knipknup on April 18, 2012, 04:11:30 PM
I have not preheated my popper but will on the next roast and see how it differs.  I suspect it will shorten to first crack by 3 minutes or so.  I'm really curious how it changes the flavor, so I think I'll use the same beans and shoot for the same stopping time and then do a side-by-side taste test.  Hmmm, probably better do the tasting in the morning and not tonight.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 18, 2012, 05:36:53 PM
Thank you for the for the terminology Debi.  It's going to be awhile before I can really make many describable distinctions in what I taste, but I'll keep trying.  Try not to wince too much as I run roughshod over the proper terms!  I can't tell if the coffee is acidic vs sour, either way milk rounds out the flavor in my mouth a bit--I do sip some black prior to adding milk.  For me the term would be sour, but someone else trying the same cup might find it pleasantly bright.  I'm the same way with regards to wine.  I don't care for bright light bodied red wine--to me it's too much like vinegar!   I like to imagine that I might stand a spoon in it!  Dark, thick, heavy, spicy, aromatic, and strangely I even love the slightly bitter taste that tannin adds to the mix.  Petite Syrah is my favorite, though it's hard to find a good one.

I ordered some of the El Salvador Honey beans you like so well.  Looking forward to roasting some.  What is your favorite roast for these?

Wow. That flash really makes a difference.  I've been taking pictures outside lately as the natural lighting seems to give me more accurate colors.

Hi again knipknup,

What is your normal roast procedure/time?  I've read that extending the roast will further mute the acidity and smooth out some of the mustiness of Indonesian beans and Indian Monsooned Malabar, so I went from a 12 minute roast to a 16 minutes roast on the low acid blends I roasted a week ago.  I love the resulting coffee, but I can't be sure how much the extended roast made the difference.  As you noted, it will take roasting two batches and trying them  side by side.  I'll make a point of doing this.  Eventually I'll have my ducks in a row.  Though it's kinda fun watching them all run around in different directions!  ;D
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 18, 2012, 06:11:39 PM

I am not good at descriptions either but the terminaolgy helps find words sometimes.

the El Salvador Honey beans suggested keeping them out of the second crack so that's what I did. As soon as I heard it I started cooling them. I will do a batch later tonight at a darker roast to see what the difference is. That was my first time buying this one.

The flash really does make a difference.  I usually roast inside under my stove hood and at night - I really am a night person. I will have to try adding more light. After the next roast I will mix the two and see what that does for me. Just got another box of these beans in tonights deliveries.

Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 18, 2012, 07:36:34 PM
Costa Rican Honey Palmares was the one you liked!  Oh well, I hope you like the El Salvador as well as the Costa Rican.  Keep me posted, I'll be glad to hear your impressions.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 18, 2012, 09:35:43 PM
The El saladore one is nice too but not THE one. I roasted that last weekend and liked it alot so I ordered another 5 pounds.  The Costa Rican won't be out until end of May or June I think. When Gary says he likes something I usually do too. My first order I bought most of his favorites so he lets me know when he ahs something I'd like.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 29, 2012, 04:55:27 PM
I've been playing around again and made a few more observations.  There are other variables affecting the probe temp.  Length of roast, and type of beans being roasted.  The picture on the right is what SO colombia roasted for 15 minutes to 375 degrees looked like--dark Espresso, not quite French.  The picture on the left was SO Colombian roasted for 14 minutes to 385 degrees--Vienna.  I stalled both roasts in my effort to slow them down.  Blends are much easier in that regard.  On the other hand, I was able to hear when both cracks began and were ending/slowing down.  Good thing to as I would have burnt the roast on the right if I had kept going until the probe showed 385 or 390 degrees.  I stopped the roast when I heard the second crack slowing down.  I noticed that I have liked best the blends with extended roasts of 16 minutes.  So I am going to try to roast them all to that length and see how it goes.  Also, I have to wonder if I misread the probe wrong on the left picture? Even so, the list I have going is showing inconsistencies.  I'm going to track this data for awhile and see what patterns emerge.  I roasted my low acid blend #6B again, but this time I increased the roast time to 16 minutes and the roast to a light espresso (I meant to stop at a Vienna Roast).  Now to wait for these batches to finish degassing.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Caseus on April 29, 2012, 06:19:52 PM
Your picture on the left is the color I aim for on most of my roasts.  To me it looks like what I call Full City+, just short of Vienna.  Of course, color perception from photographs online can vary a lot from one monitor to another, so it's hard to be sure if we're seeing the same thing.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 29, 2012, 08:26:41 PM
It looks like a full city to me too but I am using a laptop.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 29, 2012, 08:49:53 PM
Yes, you're seeing correctly.  I've had much better luck getting accurate colors since I started taking the pictures outside.  No one seems to agree on the names for various levels of roast, so pick what you like and stay with it!  ;)  The difference between Full City and Vienna as far as I can tell is if you enter into the 2nd crack at all you're at Full City+ to Vienna.  If you stop just before 2nd crack begins you're at Full City.   I wasn't counting into 2nd crack so I'm not sure how far into it I was.  As I could see flecks of oil here and there, shortly after the roast I assume I'm at Vienna.  They look so similar to each other I'm never sure I called it right!

How do you brew your coffee Caseus?

I would like to stop most my roasts at Full City or Vienna so I can appreciate flavors that are lost in dark roasts.  The obstacle for me is the acidity in most coffee at lighter roasts.  I tried the extended roast to remove any funkiness imparted by the Indonesian, and Monsoon Malabar in a blend, but I really liked how those batches came out.  It took me a few days to decide if I had overdone it and made my coffee bland.  As I brewed it increasingly stronger I began to realize it was not bland and I could make it just as thick as I desired--it just got better and better.  I think the additional muting of acidity by the extended roast tipped the scales and brought me into nirvana.  Can't wait for the next round to finish degassing!  If the extended roast works consistently, then I will be able to roast more types of beans at lighter levels.  Sometimes I want a cup of coffee to be a little rough and I go for French roast, but more often these days I prefer it very strong, but chocolaty and smooth.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 29, 2012, 09:05:23 PM
Sometimes you can extend the roast by roasting at a lower temperature but roasting longer and still drop the acidity without sacrificing the citus and caramelly notes by staying just inside or just at the 2nd crack. One bean can change so drastically with just a few degrees. Sounds like cheese curds doesn't it? ONe of the things I like about the Fsh roast is the different settings of high medium and low fab speed that affect the roast. I can roast for the same time but just vary the fan speed and get a totally different cup of coffee. Some weekend when it warms up a bit I am goingto dit on my porch and just roast the same beans all day and just change the fan settings and compar then all!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Caseus on April 30, 2012, 12:52:50 AM
How do you brew your coffee Caseus?

Anut, until my espresso machine broke this past fall, my standard routine each weekday began with a mug of coffee from my Aeropress just to fully wake up and get going, then I would have 4 to 6 double espressos over the next six to nine hours.  I might have an Americano instead of an Aeropress sometimes for my first cup.  Occasionally I might make a cappuchino or a macchiato.  But mostly just double espressos. 

I should add, I work from my house so it's easy to pull a shot whenever I feel like it.   Or it was until my espresso machine broke.  Since then, I have just been making 1.25 liters of drip coffee daily in my Technivorm Moccamaster.  It's fast and easy and it makes an excellent cup.

On weekends, I like to vary the routine.  I pick a brew method for the day, either French press, drip, or vacuum, and make a full pot and transfer it to a thermos pot.   Or I might just use my Aeropress several times. 

Grind and quantity of coffee vary according to the brewing method, the variety or blend of coffees, and the roast level, but I'm typically in the range of 55 to 65 grams of coffee per liter.  I'll use the lower end of the range for French press and the higher end for drip.  I grind my coffee for drip a bit finer than the typical commercial "automatic drip" grind, somewhat coarser for Aeropress and Cona (vacuum), and quite coarse for French press.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 30, 2012, 11:39:11 AM
Thanks Caseus.  :)  I enjoyed reviewing the different brewing methods you mentioned.  I hadn't heard of the aeropress before.  I can see you are quite serious about your coffee!

I brewed 2 of my extended roasts this morning.  I have a bad cold so I can't be sure, but I think the extended roast worked well.  I'll post again later after my cold is gone, but the SO Colombian I roasted for 14 minutes to Full City+/Vienna was very good as a drip coffee--very pleasant taste even with my nose clogged up!  I made this the normal way with medium to fine grounds (steel blade grinder) and 203 degree water poured over the top--no steeping.  I'll try it again tomorrow, but I'll steep it.  What a relief!  I was worried I wouldn't be able to find a way to make the Colombian beans I have drinkable short of roasting them very dark!  The low acid blend #6B was steeped for four minutes and poured thru a drip cone.  I think this was good, but again my cold has diminished my sense of smell and I couldn't taste well enough to give a good review.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Caseus on April 30, 2012, 12:50:27 PM
I love coffee, and I've been working on expanding my knowledge, palate, and brewing skills for years.  But slowly, because when I find something I like, I tend to stick with it for a long time before trying something new. 

I'm fairly new to roasting, and I find I really enjoy it.  I wish I'd have started sooner.   It has opened up new dimensions of coffee appreciation for me.  I have a long way to go before I consider myself knowedgeable.  In the meantime, I'm enjoying the ride.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 30, 2012, 02:13:58 PM
The ride is the best part.  I've always got my eye out for new interests to explore.  I don't much care about being knowledgeable, these days I can't remember 90% of what I learn by the next day!  ::)  I just love learning.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on April 30, 2012, 02:49:45 PM
The ride is the best part.  I've always got my eye out for new interests to explore.  I don't much care about being knowledgeable, these days I can't remember 90% of what I learn by the next day!  ::)  I just love learning.

I agree completely! New hobbies are always so exciting and the learning is fun. I keep a lot of notes and hope to learn from them. Lord knows if I don't write it down ASAP I will forget.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on April 30, 2012, 05:12:20 PM
Yep. I've been learning the hard way to take notes and keep records as I go...   ;D
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on May 01, 2012, 01:09:05 PM
I finished my comparison of extended roast with the same bean at Vienna and almost French:

Tried the Colombian that was roasted 14 minutes, to Vienna, as a pour over with no steep and I really liked it.  A very pleasant cup of coffee.  I used the whirly blade for a medium to fine grind and water at 203 degrees.  I drank this with a small amount of cream and sugar, but the sugar really wasn’t needed.

Tried the Colombian that was roasted 15 minutes to an almost French roast, both as pour over with and without steeping with water at 203 degrees.  Neither was acidic, but both were harsh with burnt flavors that did not do anything good for the overall flavor.  This batch is okay with cream and sugar, but not something I would do again on purpose.

My conclusion to this is that the secret to roasting coffee, that I will love, is in the length of the roast, not how dark it is.  So when I run into coffee that is too acidic for me, I will first try to lengthen the roast before I resort to burning it into submission!



Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Caseus on May 01, 2012, 01:26:10 PM
Interesting results, anut.  I will try an extended slow roast next time I get an excessivly acidic coffee.  I may try it anyway, just for comparison with the coffee I'm using now.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on May 01, 2012, 02:42:01 PM
It's fun when you find yet another helpful variable that you can play with!  :)  I think the next step would be to roast several batches of the same coffee to the same roast, but extend the roast longer each time until you find the sweet spot.  This will be different for each type of coffee but the info would still be useful.

I do still love dark roasts, but I think I will avoid them with acidic coffees.  Low acid coffees should do fine roasted darker.  Something to play with in the future.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on May 01, 2012, 09:36:24 PM
I think you get it now! Slower and lower not hoter and darker. It's more the way you get there than just getting there.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on May 02, 2012, 10:12:15 AM
I'm surprised I didn't find more info on this.  I only tried it because someone mentioned that extended roast time would help dissipate objectionable flavors in Indo's and Monsooned Malabar.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on May 02, 2012, 07:53:45 PM
I will have to try to find it again but there is a website for proffesional coffee roasters that said basically the same thing but not about a specific roast. Recent years the trend has been dark roasting and they found it reallt kills off some name flavors so by roasting slower and lower you get a haapy median.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on May 03, 2012, 11:43:01 AM
I would imagine that it's easier commercially to provide a consistent flavor with a dark roast blend.  If you run across any info on this please do post!  I haven't had much luck at ferreting new info lately.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on May 03, 2012, 08:55:33 PM
Hmmm Thought I saved it but can't find it now. Have you found this one?

http://roastmagazine.com/ (http://roastmagazine.com/)
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on May 03, 2012, 09:52:51 PM
Nope, that's new to me.  Thanks, I enjoy that with my coffee tommorrow.  :)
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Brewandwinesupply on May 25, 2012, 01:20:35 PM
I think you get it now! Slower and lower not hoter and darker. It's more the way you get there than just getting there.

Low and slow is the way to go!

I like the darker roasts, for a while I kept rushing them and not cooking them long enough. Grabed a bag of pre roasted off the shelf the other day and realized I was not cooking long enough... love that dark full flavored taste.

I also knew you had to let them breath but did not do it for more than 2-3 hours before grinding.. will try the 24 hour next time.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on May 25, 2012, 03:10:48 PM
Yep!  Wish I had figured that out sooner!  I'm noticing that there are huge differences between beans during the roast.  Some stall easy and need more heat even for a slow roast, and some seem to want to race to the finish and it's a struggle to keep them from going into 2nd crack at a slow pace!

I've been playing around with different things in my search for the perfect cup.  I recently switched to a gold washed filter for pour over coffee and though many people complain about it, the very fine sediments that make it thru give the coffee a thick mouthfeel that I find quite pleasant.  When I add a small amount of cream and sugar, I find suddenly I'm drinking a cup of bittersweet chocolate!  Oh yeah, thick, dark and chocolaty.  ^-^

I'm still finding I like mixed roasts in my blends.  Part Full City/Vienna and part French.  I don't think brazils contribute much to a blend at a light roast, so I am using them for the French Roast portion.

If you're roasting beans dark you might want to let the beans breath 2 to 3 days...
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Brewandwinesupply on May 25, 2012, 03:40:05 PM
I agree with you on the Brizillian, not a big fan. My supplier has a blend that is pretty good, but I really like the columbian suprimo.
One of the best coffees I had was on a trip to the Domician Republic. Local coffee is hardly exported out of the country. We brought back 5 lbs on the last trip, but have a friend who gets down there a few times a year and brings back a pound or two. Its pre roasted and ground, but very good. Would love to get some green beans some day.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: DeejayDebi on May 25, 2012, 07:32:18 PM
I definately agree with the breathing. I am in the habit of letting all my bean breath over night before canning them and I think it's less bitter.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on May 26, 2012, 10:38:38 AM
It's hard to wait sometimes!  I have Columbian Supremo beans, but I haven't tried them by themselves yet.  I'll have to try that soon with an extended/slow roast.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Caseus on May 29, 2012, 08:38:54 PM
A lot of CO2 outgasses from the beans in the first 24 hours or so after roasting.  It slows down but continues for 2 or 3 days.  I put them in a jar after roasting and cooling and leave the lid ajar for a day, then I seal the jar.  When I open it a day later, I hear a "poof" of gas escaping. 

When I freeze beans, I usually vacuum bag them after 2 or 3 days of degassing.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on May 29, 2012, 09:50:37 PM
I should make a batch just to try different ways to store it to see what keeps it fresh the longest.  I've heard two stories with regards to freezing, so that should be the first experiment.  Vacuum sealed and frozen, vacuum sealed and stored at room temperature.  Maybe a third portion stored under a blanket of CO2 in a sealed jar.

I was looked at an old bag of coffee beans from Starbuck's and I realized that I could not see any oil?  They are a uniform shape, size, color (dark) and dry, no oil!  How could that be??? 
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Caseus on May 29, 2012, 10:21:14 PM
If you vacuum seal and store at room temperature, the bag will puff up from CO2 because it has nowhere to escape to.  The coffee continues to outgas slowly at room temperature, even if you let them degas for 3 or 4 days before bagging.  You need bags with the one-way air valve like you find in all the pre-packaged whole and ground beans that are sealed in Mylar.  The ones sealed in paper don't need air valves, since they aren't air-tight.

Freezing the roasted beans will tremendously slow down the aging of the beans, and the release of CO2.  The colder the better, and you don't need air-valves.  In fact, if you use bags with air valves, put a piece of tape over it to seal it before you freeze it.   You can vacuum bag, but coffee does just fine frozen in mason jars too.

You can for sure go 6 months frozen without a problem, meaning that you won't be able to tell after thawing that they were frozen.  I just tried some I froze back in August (9 months ago), and they were as good as they were when I froze them.  If you have a manual defrost type deep freeze, you can possibly go even longer.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on May 30, 2012, 09:41:18 AM
Cool.  That would make life easier as I don't always have time to roast and could make some in reserve when I do have time!
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Dulcelife on August 01, 2012, 12:12:36 PM
Cool, didn't know there was a coffee roasting thread on here.

I'd been a whole-bean user for many years and a faithful Gevalia customer for several of those and just got tired of the over roasted trend or as many of called it Charbucks.

I'm a fan of Colombian Supremo and Ethiopian Yirgacheffe as well as my own native Adjuntas and Yauco Puerto Rican coffees with ties to my Corsican ancestors whom came to the island during Spain's Royal Decree of Graces.

Here's my most recent roast Yemen Mocca Matari at city and full city.

This coffee benefits from two days of setting.

Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on August 07, 2012, 08:17:52 PM
Hi Dulcelife,

There are a number of unexpected topics on this forum.  Bread making, bee keeping, and if not now, eventually some on fermented beverages... So many DIY's on this site it's impossible to limit it to cheesemaking!

Having drunk Espresso & French roast most of my life, my taste buds are still trying to get used to acidity!  :o I am finally able to enjoy Tanzanian Peaberry by itself, with a  14 minute roast to Full City+.  Pitiful, just pitiful!  ::)
It's going to be awhile before I can enjoy any of your favorites!  :o  How long do you extend your roasts to tame the wild ones?

Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Dulcelife on August 08, 2012, 10:33:33 AM
I am going 15 minutes, maybe a bit longer on these Yemen beans.  The darker roast did loose a lot of its origin so, I made a 50/50 origin blend of the two roasts and its absolutely divine.  Lots of berries, some earth, smoke, and a touch of cocoa.  I had to put a limit on myself, else I'd drink it all day and suffer the night.

Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: anutcanfly on August 08, 2012, 03:45:29 PM
That's what I started doing as well.  I've been roasting Brazil or Indos dark and mixing them with bright and monsooned coffees that are roasted to full city+ for an extended for 14 - 16 minutes.  It's like having your cake and eating it too!  Dark roasted coffee all by itself is a little flat, but I miss the dark roast flavors in blends that are all full city+ or less.  Figuring out how long to extend roasts is challenging.  I'm finding that each type of bean is different and so I'm doing a lot of trial and error.  Too short a roast :o  Too long a roast ZZZZZZ.  Thankfully my sweetie drinks espresso, so beans that come out to flat for me are perfect for him. 

Here's a question I can't answer... I have decaf espresso beans from Starbucks that have yet to show any signs of oil.  How does that happen???  What did they change?  Their dark roasted coffee used to be decent, not great but okay, but now it's hopelessly bland.  Just as well as I wouldn't have learned I could roast my own beans if I hadn't gotten pissed about paying $13 a pound for flat beans.
Title: Re: Coffee Roasting
Post by: Dulcelife on August 09, 2012, 07:10:29 AM
They may have changed the method of decaffeinating.  In very general terms you have a direct and an indirect method of extracting the caffeine.  In one method (direct), the oils are brought to the surface by steaming and then application of ethylene chloride or ethyl acetate (an organic solvent) eliminates most of the caffeine.  In the water method (indirect), the bean are soaked and most everything in the bean including the caffeine is extracted into said water.  The drained water is then treated via solvent or filtration.  The caffeine-free water with all other desirable components in solution is returned to the beans and dried on.  There are other methods of course since its a big bad world and coffee grows in lots of the world.

Regardless, I can't imagine there being quantities of oil left after these processes. Maybe Starbucks used an post processing oil component at one time?  Who knows?

On the question of blending, I believe that blending at least two roast levels of every origin, especially if one likes the darker roast, is essential to appreciate the beans full potential.  This, and letting the roasted beans set for a couple of days is my standard practice.  This morning I was out of full city+ Yemen Mocca Matari so, I blended 50/50 with the Brazil Natural full city+.  Its okay but not up to the flavor of the 50/50 Yemen I posted about above.

Happy roasting.