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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Rennet Surface White Mold (Penicillium candidum) Ripened => Topic started by: High Altitude on September 25, 2013, 12:13:11 AM

Title: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: High Altitude on September 25, 2013, 12:13:11 AM
Followed Mary Karlin's Camembert recipe (which she even claims is unconventional).  Started the make this morning, and this evening my cam hope is currently hanging in a cheesecloth bag over the sink  :-[.  It simply would not drain without spilling its "guts".  But, I WILL somehow get it back into the mold after some major draining, and proceed from there....who knows what this thing will be one day!

A few pics tell the story.   Not sure what went wrong exactly, but will follow a more traditional cam make next time (which will be soon)!
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: shotski on September 25, 2013, 12:57:24 AM
Hummmmmm interesting, who knows what it will grow up to be. Keep us posted though, I have not made many Cams so I hope some one with more experience will chime in. Who knows maybe you just invented the next Cam knock off.
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: mjr522 on September 25, 2013, 01:20:17 AM
Bummer--sorry.  I had a batch of cams that spilled their guts, but that was through the big hole on the end of the mold, not through the little holes.  I would guess that your curd is too weak, but I'm not sure.  My cams that spilled all over the place turned out pretty well, though, so there is hope.

What milk do you use (I've been meaning to ask you that for a while, but I keep forgetting)?
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: High Altitude on September 25, 2013, 04:41:47 PM
So this morning my cam much resembles a thickening greek yogurt  :o.  Hoping this dry climate will continue to suck moisture out so I can at least get a solid mass, strong enough to put in the cave sometime this week.  At this point, I really just want to see if it will grow PC.  What really bummed me out is that I have about 1/4 tsp left of calcium chloride, and the new PINT bottle I received in the mail has some sort of contaminant inside (a black thing attached to the bottom) so I can't make the Colby I had planned for today.  The company is overnighting me another bottle though, so I don't have to go searching on the local economy for some while my 2 gallons of milk sit anxiously waiting to become cheese.

Maybe I'll try a small conventional brie or cam recipe today to use up one gallon of milk and the last 1/4 tsp of CaCl on hand.  At this point I'm not willing to risk 2 gallons on a brie/cam make until I know it MIGHT turn into something that resembles this type of cheese.

Mike, we get Royal Crest dairy products delivered weekly.  I used their Royal Rich (3.8% fat) for this make.  Their regular whole milk (3.4%) is what I normally use for cheese.  But we drink their 1.5% which is creamier and tastes better than any 2% you'll find in local grocery stores (in our humble opinion anyway).
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: mjr522 on September 25, 2013, 05:07:37 PM
A lot of our friends get royal crest.  We considered it for a while, but decided we were to cheap (and we consume a lot of milk) for it.  Recently, though, I've decided to try a bunch of different milks to see if I can find one that works the best for me.

As always, you are welcome to have some of my CaCl if you'd like.

Good luck with the thickening/drying.
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: High Altitude on September 25, 2013, 06:28:46 PM
Thanks Mike (as always :-). 

The 1.5% from RC is their best seller (much cheaper than their other milk percentages) and really is worth it for the quality  ;D.  I got into it when our neighbors (with 4 kiddos) had been getting deliveries for 2 years already.  They have since moved, but they are all over "health and quality" stuff, natural products, etc. 

Anyway, do tell when you find a milk you really like.  I'd love to try raw sometime, and there is a farm/dairy in Denver that sells, so might give it a whirl next Spring just to see what all the rave is about  8)! 
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: High Altitude on September 26, 2013, 02:32:08 PM
Well Shotski, you may have something there....my cam knock-off!

It finally became a mass that I could (delicately) handle and get into the cave this morning (after some 36 hours draining).  Now, please, please, please let's see some PC action in the next few days/week.  It is not beautiful by any means, but all may not be lost yet!
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: shotski on September 28, 2013, 07:56:38 PM
It will be interesting to see what the inside is like after ageing. Fingers and toes still crossed.
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: High Altitude on October 01, 2013, 03:25:42 PM
Ok, it's day 7 and the PC has really taken off on my little "whatever it is".  It looks completely covered to me and I'm just wondering whether I should wrap soon and store in the kitchen fridge (at 38 F).  It is still very firm of course, so maybe I leave it (wrapped) in the cave (at 54-56 F)??

Any advise from those in the know?!
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: High Altitude on October 02, 2013, 03:09:56 PM
I've been patting it down, and will wrap today (before I leave on a weekend trip and cannot babysit it).  I'll put it in a ripening box (with balls of wet paper towels to keep up humidity, per recipe instructions) in the bottom drawer shelf of fridge (38 degrees) and leave it for 5 weeks to ripen (also per instructions). Assuming I need to flip every now and again?

I've read so many different opinions on whether to ripen cams/brie in the cave or cooler fridge, that I had to pick one finally...and ultimately went with the recipe instructions. Eventually it has to ripen to some degree, or at least I HOPE it will  :o.
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: mjr522 on October 02, 2013, 08:35:10 PM
I agree that you just have to try and see what happens.  I've only done cams 3 times.  I did fridge aging with one and cave aging with the other.  I didn't wrap either of them.  The cave aged one turned out better, but I think not wrapping the cheeses made a big difference.  I've got a set of 4 that I just sprayed Monday.  Once they are ready, I think I will wrap them all and put 2 in the fridge and leave 2 in the cave.  It will be interesting to see what happens.

5 weeks seems long to me, though, as I said, I don't have too much experience.  You probably ought to check it after 3 weeks and see how it's doing.
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: High Altitude on October 07, 2013, 06:18:30 PM
Oh I'll definitely keep a close eye on this one and be feeling for softening, regularly.  Karlin did say this was an unconventional recipe and maybe that has something to do with the ripening time (?). This one wasn't even salted on the exterior, rather salt was added to the curds while still in the whey and gently stirred in.  Poor curds were so weak already and that slight extra stirring didn't help any!

I'm just still amazed (and thrilled) that the PC grew so evenly and quickly, and I was able to wrap within the time the recipe said I could  ;D.

Going to try her American Brie recipe tomorrow (I think), and make two 4" wheels.  I look forward to seeing how your latest cams turn out, Mike.
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: Tiarella on October 07, 2013, 09:48:37 PM
HiAlt, did the recipe say to pat down the PC when it bloomed?  Looks like some slip skin....which is NOT at all the end of the world! 
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: High Altitude on October 08, 2013, 03:49:02 PM
Hi Tiarella!  The recipe didn't mention patting down the PC, but I've read it a number of times in this forum that I know it should be done.  The "cheese" is only a week old in that photo, and still really hard.  It is a disaster make and is just hard and lumpy...no slip-skin (yet!).  I was lucky to even get it into any "shape" whatsoever as in the beginning it was like yogurt mush.

It seems to be happily aging now, wrapped up and in the fridge.  No sign of softening up yet, but we're only just now on day 15 from initial make, so still pretty early. No matter what it turns out to be, I will post pics later on and hope that it is remotely edible :o!
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: Tiarella on October 08, 2013, 06:43:24 PM
Oh, I think it will taste fine.  The only trick is figuring out when it's ready.  I'm still learning that......and just about everything else.
 :-\
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: High Altitude on October 10, 2013, 07:25:28 PM
Tiarella, I have thought of you as a PRO cheese head for a long time ;D!  Don't disillusion me now, please  8)!
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: Tiarella on October 10, 2013, 07:41:53 PM
Tiarella, I have thought of you as a PRO cheese head for a long time ;D!  Don't disillusion me now, please  8)!

Oh Man, no way!  Really?  Well, pour yourself a HUGE glass of your homemade wine, sit down and brace yourself for the upcoming newsflash.......    ::)  I am SO far away from a pro that it's a wonder I can even spell the word.  I mess up  :o , I'm stubborn about following directions  >:(  (as in I don't), I fall into neglectful cheese parent mode too often  :-[, I'm lackadaisical about sanitizing pots and pans  ::) (because after all, they didn't have bleach for much of the history of cheese and hey, even running water is recent) and many, many other silly, stupid or lazy transgressions in my cheese making.  Do I make good cheese most of the time in spite of myself?  Well, yes.  And I make pretty cheeses because they please me.  But pro?  SO not.  But hey, good to know I passed for one for a short while in your imagination.   ;D   I AM having fun and I do have milk from my herd that I can pretend is free which probably contributes to my laziness about directions, etc.  And I do love how many really wonderful people are on this forum!
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: High Altitude on October 10, 2013, 08:25:20 PM
Well, all braces (I did brace myself and will have that glass of wine tonight) aside, you are still far more of a PRO than me and many of us on the forum. 

This forum does indeed have a fantastic array of cheesey folks, huh?!  Because of them (including you), I have learned so much since I started this cheese journey in January. I've made some 26 cheeses (one of which didn't quite qualify), and am just now delving into the mold ripened softies...yum!

Thanks for the fun posts and beautiful photos of your creations T, and the many other "artists and scientists" on here...it's truly inspiring  ;D!  Enough gushing already...need to go make some cheese! :P
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: Tiarella on October 10, 2013, 10:55:45 PM
Well thank you for expressing your kind delusions and I do agree that there's so many chances to learn on this forum.  26 cheeses is a LOT and the number had me wondering how many I'd made.  Not much more than that I'd guess.  I've only been making hard cheeses since August of 2012 so even if I made one a week it isn't a huge number.  True, sometimes it's two a week.....or three, but not often. 

Mold ripened cheeses are fun.  I like them and can I encourage you to try an ashed style cheese and try some leaves on it?  Leaves that are frozen flat  (I vacuum packed them to flatten) and then thawed tend to be limp and they adhere just to the moisture of a cheese that's just been dusted with ash/salt and is moist.  Then the PC grows around it and it is so very cool looking.  Worth a try, right?
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: High Altitude on October 14, 2013, 02:28:12 AM
I'll definitely try an ash cheese soon, now that I have had more success (I think) with a second surface mold cheese...a Brie this week. I have ash on my cheese supply shopping list for later this week :-).  Will be trying a washed curd Brie from Caldwell's book on Tuesday (and use 4" cam molds).  Hope it works as well as the regular 7" Brie recipe worked this week.

And maybe, just maybe, I'll collect some fallen yellow leaves from the back yard tomorrow and freeze them.  Wouldn't they be pretty on a Sage Derby cheese! (Do you boil first to sanitize before vacuum packing?)

Cheers!  Off to sip more wine on this Sunday eve  ::)
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: Tiarella on October 15, 2013, 10:53:44 PM
I'll definitely try an ash cheese soon, now that I have had more success (I think) with a second surface mold cheese...a Brie this week. I have ash on my cheese supply shopping list for later this week :-).  Will be trying a washed curd Brie from Caldwell's book on Tuesday (and use 4" cam molds).  Hope it works as well as the regular 7" Brie recipe worked this week.

And maybe, just maybe, I'll collect some fallen yellow leaves from the back yard tomorrow and freeze them.  Wouldn't they be pretty on a Sage Derby cheese! (Do you boil first to sanitize before vacuum packing?)

Cheers!  Off to sip more wine on this Sunday eve  ::)


Sorry for late reply.  I don't treat leaves before using but I do use leaves right off the plant rather than off the ground.  the type I use are less thick than the tree leaves.  I've tried soaking leaves in brandy before freezing but that still didn't soften the leaves.  I did manage to use them for wrapping small ashed bloomy cheeses but not much else.  Good luck and DO post photos.  I'm really hoping to see someone else start using leaves. 
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: Pete S on October 16, 2013, 01:09:09 AM


Oh Man, no way!  Really?  Well, pour yourself a HUGE glass of your homemade wine, sit down and brace yourself for the upcoming newsflash.......    ::)  I am SO far away from a pro that it's a wonder I can even spell the word.  I mess up  :o , I'm stubborn about following directions  >:(  (as in I don't), I fall into neglectful cheese parent mode too often  :-[, I'm lackadaisical about sanitizing pots and pans  ::) (because after all, they didn't have bleach for much of the history of cheese and hey, even running water is recent) and many, many other silly, stupid or lazy transgressions in my cheese making.  Do I make good cheese most of the time in spite of myself?  Well, yes.
_________________________________________________ ____________________



   A cheese to you, for giving a voice to us less exacting cheese makers
My philosophy for making cheese is a lot like yours. I make cheese for 2 reason's'             
I like to eat cheese & I enjoy making cheese.
 Thank you from us less than then perfect practitioner's
                                                                                            Pete

Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: High Altitude on November 01, 2013, 05:39:21 PM
And the big reveal of my 1st Cam attempt, that I was tempted to toss out at least 3 times!  Anyway, it started feeling soft the other day, so I thought I'd better open it.  So I did last night finally, a week before it's 7 week "due" date.  And I was glad I did.

It was almost too soft in the middle, though the rest of it was a lovely soft texture.  It actually tasted like Camembert, I was rather shocked really.  I loved the exterior, and the interior was slightly pungent (I wouldn't want it to be much older). Sadly, my husband didn't dare have a bit....gooey cheeses scare him  :o.

I have two mini-Brie's and a 7" Brie now wrapped up in the fridge, so after this near failure, I cannot wait to open those!

p.s., Because of the excellent flavor this recipe produced, I will make it again (Karlin's book). However, I'll be very careful to establish a stronger curd before ladling into the forms.
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: Pete S on November 01, 2013, 06:30:28 PM
  A great looking cheese. Mine is about a week younger than yours so I think I will cut one of them.

 Congratulations on a great rescue.     Here is a cheese for you!   Pete
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: High Altitude on November 01, 2013, 06:36:26 PM
Thanks Pete!  I think I need to correct the age on this one...it was really only about 5 weeks old.  I think the "mushy" curd lent itself to faster ripening.

Cant wait to see yours  ;D!
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: Pete S on November 01, 2013, 06:55:32 PM
  That makes mine a week older than yours. I will surely cut mine this evening. thanks  Pete
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: Boofer on November 02, 2013, 01:39:16 PM
Nice job, High Altitude. Creamy and oozy...yum! :)  Rind is a tad thick, but still looks delicious.

Looks like this won't be a candidate for the Failures thread... ;)

A cheese for your success.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: High Altitude on November 02, 2013, 03:46:20 PM
Aww, thanks Boof! 

I'm so happy for the gooeyness, and I realize the rind looks kinda thick, but it really isn't (or maybe I just don't think so because that's my favorite part!).  I'm gonna get FAT if too many of these bloomies turn out ok  :o!!
Title: Re: 1st Camembert Attempt - might be posting this to "Failures I Have Known" :-(
Post by: mjr522 on November 03, 2013, 04:17:25 PM
Good work, it looks great!  I've almost always been glad when I resisted my initial (and sometimes subsequent) urges to toss out what I thought was sure to be a terrible cheese.  Looks like your patience paid off.