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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Cheddared (Normally Stacked & Milled) => Topic started by: JeffHamm on January 07, 2012, 03:43:54 AM

Title: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: JeffHamm on January 07, 2012, 03:43:54 AM
Hi,

Ok, this could be a complete failure, but I thought I would give it a go.    I became interested in Derby in particular after reading on the British Cheese board web site that Derby is not cheddared, but all the recipies I've seen for it involved a cheddaring step.  So, I went hunting around for some information and found a thread with a link to an old book (available at archive.org as a free legal download because it's out of copywrite).  Anyway, here's what I found (any typo's are mine):

Derby Cheese (pages 87-89) from The Dairy of the Farm, James Long and J.C. Morton, 1885.
Derbyshire Cheese-making does not differ materially from that which obtains in Gloucestershire in making a thick (double Gloucester) cheese.  It is usual to make but once a day, unless in very hot weather, when it may be doubtful if the milk can be got cool and kept sweet during the night, in which case cheese is made in the evening as well as morning.  In general, however, the evening’s milk is put in thin layers in the cheese-tub and other vessels to cool during the night, tin vessels of cold water being put to stand it in in order to subject it to as large a cooling surface as possible.  In the morning, if much cream has risen, it is partly skimmed, and, if necessary, warmed up with some milk and added to the morning’s milk, so as to bring the whole to about 80.  In the summer time, however, the rennet has often to be added when the milk is naturally warmer than this.  Enough fresh-made rennet is added to set the whole in an hour or less.  After the curd has been broken with the common sieve curd-braker, used gently for a sufficient time, a presser is used – a sort of heavy metallic sieve “follower,” which sinks gradually through the whey and ultimately lies upon the curd, enabling the baling out of the whey.  After this has been for the most part taken out, this follower is forced hard down on the curd so as to squeeze and still further separate the whey from it.  The curd may then be slightly salted, thought this is not always done at that time.  It is broken by hand into a vat and pressed ; taken out and broke up again, re-vatted and again pressed ; and this may be done more than once – as often, indeed, as seems to be required.  It is at length finally vatted,  in sizes of about 4 to the cwt. ; (note ; 1 cwt = 100 lbs in the US, but it’s 112 lbs in the UK). Its whole surface is made to take in as much salt as it will hold by rubbing and pressing ; this gets liquefied by the exuding moisture and is absorbed.  It is dry-clothed and changed in the press daily, and is in the press four or five days being finally removed to the cheese-room, where it is turned at gradually-increasing intervals until ready for the market.
   In some districts, and notably in Lancashire, no salt is put in the curd, but the cheeses, after two or three days’ pressing, are placed in brine for a week, in which they float, going in soft at first and coming out hardened.  They are taken thence to the cheese-room, and turned daily until sold.


Dave has already experimented with the repeated pressing and milling procedure and reported that it seems to really aid in whey removal, and we figured this replaced the cheddaring step.

Anyway, from the above I put the following make together.  There's no scalding period, just a long hold at temp (steps 10 and 11), which I've seen in Wenslydale.  pH targets would be called for here, but I don't have a meter yet.  All in all everything seemed to go well.  Curds were vgood and dry after 3 press and mills.  Now, will see how things turn out without a dutch press!

Derby : Saturday, Jan 7, 2012; overcast, raining; temp 24 C

10 L Homebrand standard
3 ice cubes buttermilk
1.6 ml calf rennet
½ tsp CaCl2 (50% solution)
2 tbls salt
6.25” diameter mould

1)   Warm to 80 (26.7 C) (start time 10:10 – finish 10:17 Start temp 10.7 C Finish temp 30.6 C oops, but this is not an atypical temp for cheddar types, so I just went with it but took it off the heat)
2)   Add ice cubes
3)   Ripen 1 hour (time: 10:17 - 11:26 temp 30.6 C - 29.1 C)
4)   Add CaCl2
5)   Add Rennet (time 11:28:30 temp 29.1 C)
6)   Floc time 11:38:30 3x multipler = cut time of 11:58:30
7)   Cut to 1 cm cubes
8)   Rest 10-20 minutes (start 12:07-12:25 temp 28.8 C – 28.8C)
9)   Raise temperature back to 30 C (start 12:25 – 12:30 Final temp 30.0 C ish (warm patches around 30, probably closer to 29 overall)
10)   stirred gently for 45 minutes (start time 12:30 - 1:15)
11)   Rest at temp 45 minutes stir every 15 minutes to reduce matting (1:15 – 2:00)
12)   press curds to bottom (failed, didn't have anything really suited to doing this.  My large follower was not large enough)
13)   Remove whey to level of curds
14)   Press more firmly in cheesecloth bag to remove more whey (4 litres of whey as the weight, pressed for 15 minutes ; 2:09-2:24)
15)   Remove whey, mill to olive size (into cheesecloth) and transfer to mould,
16)   press again with 10 kg (0.72 PSI) in the pot for 15 minutes then mill into olive sized (repeat until no whey expelled) (2:30-2:45; 3:00-3:15 3:25-3:40; only a little whey expelled after last press)
17)   Salt the curds and transfer back to cheesecloth lined mould, punch curds down as you load up
18)   Press 15 kg (1.08 PSI; in the pot) 45 minutes (start time: 4:00-4:45)
19)   Flip and redress, press 20 kg (1.43 PSI; in the pot 45 minutes (start time 4:50 - 5:35; by this point have extracted over 8 litres of whey, maybe 8.5)
20)   Flip and redress, press overnight 35.2 kg (2.53 PSI; start time 5:35 pm - 5.45 am)
21)   Flip and redress, press through the day 35.2 kg (2.53 PSI; start time 5:50 am – 5:20 pm)
Weight after press 1102g, 15.5x4.7 cm, 1.24 g/cm3.  Knit quality = was still poor on one face after night press, so flipped and pressed through the day.  Final knit = mostly excellent, but weak spots on one side

- Jeff
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on January 07, 2012, 05:28:06 PM
Remilling is not a substitute for cheddaring. True cheddaring produces a curd mass with a texture similar to fried chicken, with the fibers mostly running in one direction. That contributes to the long term texture of the finished cheese.

If you are remilling to remove whey, there are many other ways to accomplish that, such as cheddaring. Lower floc time, smaller curd size, more aggressive stirring, longer draining, etc all will help with residual whey. If your concern is acidity or sour flavors, then use less starter and/or drain a little sooner. Just my personal opinion, but remilling seems to be a LOT of extra work and will require a huge amount of extra pressure to obtain a good knit. Cold, salted curds are not easy to press.
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: JeffHamm on January 07, 2012, 05:42:57 PM
Hi Sailor,

My interest here was due to having read that Derby, according to the British Cheese Board, is not cheddared. (http://www.britishcheese.com/derby (http://www.britishcheese.com/derby) ; note where they say it doesn't go through the cheddaring process).  So, having looked at some older books, I found the above description of how to make it.  I've tried to adapt those notes to a make procedure. 

You are spot on with the extra work and time.  This did take a long time to make.  And the knit was poor on one side this morning so I've flipped it again, and will press for another 12 hours.  Will see if it closes up or not.

Thanks for the info on what cheddaring does.  The texture should be different then. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: fied on January 07, 2012, 07:43:00 PM
There's a cheat's way of getting a knit when re-milling small cheeses and a weight limitation on your press. Keep back some of the whey from the make, heat it to the  temp. it was after renneting. Put in the re-milled curds, bring back to temp. and hold for a minute (you only want the outside of the curds warmed). Drain quickly, salt curds quickly in the warm pot and then do the first pressing, if you can, in the pot.
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: JeffHamm on January 07, 2012, 07:51:00 PM
Thanks for the tip fied.  Sounds easy enough to do.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: JeffHamm on January 08, 2012, 04:38:59 AM
Hi,

Well, it's now been in the press for about 24 hours.  The final knit is weak on this side, though the bottom is excellent.  Still, it's better than it was earlier this morning.  The final weight was 1102g, and it was 15.5 x 4.7 cm, so that works out to a density of 1.24 g/ccm.  For a first go, I'm pretty pleased with the outcome.  Will see how it ages now. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: anutcanfly on January 08, 2012, 05:50:40 PM
I love experiments! I think you learn way more with tinkering, than you do by just following recipes! Go Jeff!  :)
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: DeejayDebi on January 08, 2012, 07:19:35 PM
I don't know how this will taste but it looks like a good start to a fine Derby. Nice job!
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: JeffHamm on January 08, 2012, 08:55:35 PM
Thanks anut and DejayDebi,

This make was quite time consuming, around 8 hours until in the press for the night.  I'm thinking it should turn out ok, and given that it was quite dry this morning, I think it will air dry quickly and be ready for caving quite soon.  Given the weak spots in the rind,  I might give it a good salt rub this evening to attempt to prevent blue mold from taking hold until it's ready for waxing in two or three weeks.  I'm going to target six months, but possibly will take it out to next Christmas if my Cheddar doesn't recover (it may be deflating as it didn't seem to be as swollen this morning, but I'll check more closely this evening).  Even if it does, I might age these together for a taste comparison test.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: DeejayDebi on January 08, 2012, 08:57:37 PM
Well it sure looks like a proper Derby!
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: dthelmers on January 09, 2012, 04:12:52 AM
Remilling is not a substitute for cheddaring. True cheddaring produces a curd mass with a texture similar to fried chicken, with the fibers mostly running in one direction. That contributes to the long term texture of the finished cheese.

If you are remilling to remove whey, there are many other ways to accomplish that, such as cheddaring. Lower floc time, smaller curd size, more aggressive stirring, longer draining, etc all will help with residual whey. If your concern is acidity or sour flavors, then use less starter and/or drain a little sooner. Just my personal opinion, but remilling seems to be a LOT of extra work and will require a huge amount of extra pressure to obtain a good knit. Cold, salted curds are not easy to press.
Well, it's certainly time consuming to do the re-milling, and I've noticed a definite grain direction to the cheeses that I have been pressing and milling instead of cheddaring. When i use a cheese plane, it works from top to bottom, pulling a long thin unbroken slice, but if I cut the cheese in half and try using the cheese plane along the cut surface, it breaks. I'm thinking that the cheddaring process develops a grain in the cheese and affects texture. My latest experiment with pressing and re-milling the cheese worked out OK, but I'm able to bring a lot of pressure to bear on my press, and it seemed like it needed it. The cheese also seemed dryer than usual, but the house is quite dry right now with forced hot air heating, so that may be throwing it off. It's in the cave now, time will tell.
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: JeffHamm on January 09, 2012, 04:20:54 AM
Hi Dave,

Just to let you know, the Derby I've just made was also much drier than other makes, and the final knit was not as good as others I've made (including a traditional cheddar).  I think part of the knit problem was there was a fair amount of "crumbs" rather than "curds" on the bottom face and they don't seem to knit as well for me.  Also, my max PSI is only about 2.5.  I think if I could get up to 6, or even just 5, it would have knit fine.  Still, I've had worse knits in the past (my first Wensleydale was pretty bad, but my max PSI then was only about 1.4).

- Jeff
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: JeffHamm on January 14, 2012, 08:56:40 PM
I've moved this into the cave now.  The rind is forming up, though it's not as smooth as my other makes so mould could be a problem, but the cracks aren't increasing so I'm pleased by that.  It's now down to 990g, so it's lost 112g of moisture.  I'll probably wax this one in a week.  Overall, it seems to be progressing nicely. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: anutcanfly on January 14, 2012, 10:37:05 PM
Yes, it does help to be able to load on the extra weight!  I am so glad I finally got a dutch press!  5 - 7 psi will tame even the most difficult cheddar styles.  :)
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: JeffHamm on January 21, 2012, 11:09:33 PM
Hi,

This one is now down to 962g, and the rind has formed up nicely.  A patch on one face developed some b.linen contamination, but it hasn't spread or developed any further than when it first appeared.  So, today this has been waxed for long term aging.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: anutcanfly on January 22, 2012, 12:03:11 AM
I had a cheese get too dry and crack.  I made sure the wax flowed into the crack and it aged nicely with no problems.

I haven't aged any cheeses with a natural rind yet.  Do they keep losing moisture after they have been oiled?
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: JeffHamm on January 22, 2012, 06:01:04 AM
They do, but the rate slows down.  I made a romano last march, and it's still natural rind (and clean as a whistle; never any problem).  Out of the press it was just over 1600g, by June it was around 1270, and I just popped it on the scale today and it's between 1100 and 1200 (I forgot to write it down).  So it's still losing some, but only about 100g and a bit since last June.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: anutcanfly on January 22, 2012, 09:48:02 PM
I have been trying to avoid natural rinds but I would think you could not get the density needed for a grating cheese when you wax it.
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: JeffHamm on January 22, 2012, 11:03:38 PM
The only reason I wax them is because my ripening boxes only hold 2 cheeses each, and I can only fit 1 box per shelf in the fridge.  When I wax the cheese, and it doesn't have to go in a box, I can get 8 cheeses on the shelf.  So it's better use of my cave space.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: anutcanfly on January 23, 2012, 12:19:52 AM
Hi Jeff,

Same thought here!  Maxmizing space, but hopefully not at the expense of some cheeses later down the line.  I have mine carefully worked out so I've saved just enough room for containers to run blue, bloomy and washed rind cheeses, and so I can run two natural rind cheeses without any pentalty in space. I should be able to get close to 100 lbs of cheese into my 5 cubic feet cheese cave.  The nicest thing about winter is I can spill some projects over into an unheated room in the house.

I haven't been tracking the weights as you do, but it seems like most the weight is lost in the first 2-3 weeks, so after that waxing shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: JeffHamm on March 22, 2013, 11:41:13 PM
Hi,

Ok, Made this over a year ago.  Just removed it from the wax, and it now weighs 956g.  The label is from when it went into the wax, so it's dropped a few grams over that period.  It's had one small piece removed over the year as mould was developing under the wax, which would account for a gram or two.  Anyway, there's a bit of pink colouration on the top, but generally it is in good shape.  It has the typical "fruity" smell of a cheese that has been sealed in wax for a long period.  That will fade after it's air out for a few days.  No taste report yet as I find that it's best to wait for the fruity smell to dissipate before trying it.  Will update once we try it.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: High Altitude on March 23, 2013, 03:29:24 PM
Cannot WAIT to hear how this one turned out taste-wise, Jeff  ;D!  If you love it, I'll give you a cheese  ;)!
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: BobE102330 on March 23, 2013, 05:31:11 PM
Aww, heck.  I'll give Jeff a cheese just for having the patience to leave the cheese in the cave for a year.  The oldest I have in my cave was made mid December 2012. 
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: MrsKK on March 24, 2013, 12:58:58 PM
I love your adventurous spirit, Jeff Hamm!
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: bbracken677 on March 24, 2013, 01:16:33 PM
We await the results with bated breath! 

And agreed BobE....tis tough to let them sit in there, all alone for that long.  I think I have a cheddar from Oct, and a Cheshire from Nov or Dec, and of course I still have one Parmesan from last year.  I know the cheshire will not make it a year...perhaps the cheddar but for sure the parm will make it a year. I have a few more in the cave, perhaps another cheddar from last year and a few from January. So I better get busy and make some more!  MOAR CHEESE!!   >:D
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: JeffHamm on March 24, 2013, 07:18:02 PM
Well, had a piece this am, and this has turned out wonderfully!  Very nice flavour, and the texture is perfect.  A bit crumbly, but not dry and hard although firm when cutting it.  I've got a photo of the cut cheese to post later when I get it off the camera.  But basically, this is definitely worth repeating.  Certainly a good cheese to age out, but can't speak for how it would be at 4 - 6 months.  I'm very pleased.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: JeffHamm on March 25, 2013, 05:21:51 PM
Hi,

Here's the shot of the cut cheese. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: High Altitude on March 29, 2013, 05:01:43 PM
Jeff, that is really a sight to behold....a well-deserved cheese for you!  Thanks again for sharing the experience  :D!
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: Rizzo on May 09, 2014, 03:05:19 AM
Hello Jeff

I have just made a Derby today, and put it in the press afew minutes ago.  I notice there is quite a difference in pressing weights between Mrs KK's and yours...Mrs KK, 5kg/1hour, 5 kg/1 hour, 25 kg overnight, yours virtually double.  Is there a reason behind this (I am making 1/2 measures; i.e. 8 litres milk. thanks
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: JeffHamm on May 09, 2014, 05:45:44 AM
Hi Rizzo,

The make I've posted is one I've put together based upon some old books, etc.  It involves pressing and re-milling the curds a few times, and this results in the curds getting cooler.  The increased pressing weights are to try and ensure a good knit. In fact, my next make of this will increase the weight a bit more.  Also, it's not weight itself that is important, but pressure per square inch, so bigger moulds require more weight to get the same PSI.  Check out library/software board.  I've got an excel workbook there called "cheesetools" and it will help calculate PSI.

- Jeff
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: jwalker on May 09, 2014, 02:18:16 PM
Nice cheese Jeff , a cheese to you !
Title: Re: My first Derby based upon my own recipe
Post by: JeffHamm on May 09, 2014, 07:01:49 PM
Thanks jwalker.  This is a bit of a older thread.  I keep meaning to make another one of these, but I keep getting distracted.  I recently picked up a slightly smaller tomme mould, so I should be able to make 1kg barrels as well as the disks I get now.  The smaller diameter will give me greater PSI, so I should get a better knit on this one.  The repeated milling makes the curds a bit reluctant to fuse back together (they are probably thinking "what's the point"?)

- Jeff