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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Semi-Hard "Sweet" Washed Curd => Topic started by: Cheese Head on August 14, 2009, 07:28:50 PM

Title: Gouda Cheese Making: Four Recipes Compared
Post by: Cheese Head on August 14, 2009, 07:28:50 PM
The last time I made Gouda was in June 2008 when I was still very new to cheese making. I want to start making Gouda again.

To help understand the method I've summarized four surprisingly quite different Gouda recipes by each step, hoping it will invite discussion of others experiences and recommendations, and thereby enable me to go work quicker up the learning curve (my comments in brackets):

GENERAL
Gouda is a washed curd cheese like Colby and quite quick to mature.
Peter Dixon:
CHR Hansen:
Debra 200:
Ricki Carroll:

STEP #1: MILK PREPARATION
Peter Dixon:
CHR Hansen:
Debra 200:
Ricki Carroll:

STEP #2: STARTER CULTURE
Peter Dixon:
CHR Hansen:
Debra 200:
Ricki Carroll:

STEP #3: PRE-RIPENING
Peter Dixon:
CHR Hansen:
Debra 200:
Ricki Carroll:

STEP #4: RENNETING
Your choice and amount.

STEP #5: CUTTING CURD
Peter Dixon:
CHR Hansen:
Debra 200:
Ricki Carroll:

STEP #6: COOKING CUT CURD
Peter Dixon:
CHR Hansen:
Debra 200:
Ricki Carroll:

STEP #7: WASHING CURDS
Peter Dixon:
CHR Hansen:
Debra 200:
Ricki Carroll:

STEP #8: PRE-PRESSING IN WHEY
Peter Dixon:
CHR Hansen:
Debra 200:
Ricki Carroll:

STEP #9: PRESSING
Peter Dixon:
CHR Hansen:
Debra 200:
Ricki Carroll:

STEP #10: SALTING
Peter Dixon:
CHR Hansen:
Debra 200:
Ricki Carroll:

STEP #11: AGING
Peter Dixon:
CHR Hansen:
Debra 200:
Ricki Carroll:
Title: Re: Gouda Cheese Making: Four Recipes Compared
Post by: Cheese Head on August 14, 2009, 08:27:39 PM
Questions:

STEP #1: MILK PREPARATION
I assume middle of the pack 88F/31.0C is good?
What are pros and cons in going cooler/warmer?

STEP #2: STARTER CULTURE
Danisco DVS Choozit MM100, MM101, and BT002 all have:
Flora Danica has the same plus:
Which is better for Gouda or others using different or mixed?

STEP #3: PRE-RIPENING
Assume 30 min is best, anyone have experience with results using less or more time?

STEP #4: RENNETING
Not a Gouda specific subject.

STEP #5: CUTTING CURD
The professional recipes recommend smaller curds sizes, anyone have different experiences/results with smaller/larger cut curd sizes?

STEP #6: COOKING CUT CURD
Generally stir off and on for 20 minutes?

STEP #7: WASHING CURDS
Anyone have recommendations and or experiences using different methods in this step?

STEP #8: PRE-PRESSING IN WHEY
Professional recipes say to do this step, books skip it, anyone done it, and how and with what weights, and results?

STEP #9: PRESSING
Peter Dixon's recipe uses very light weights, CHR Hansen must have a typo as ridiculous psi, Debra uses medium (?) weight, Ricki 50 pounds. Anyone have recommendations and experiences including times?

STEP #10: SALTING
Straight forward, Peter Dixon's guide of 3-4 hours in sat brine per pound of cheese is good.

STEP #11: AGING
I'd like to try natural rind, assume normal tricks and traps, ie nothing special for Gouda?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Gouda Cheese Making: Four Recipes Compared
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 15, 2009, 01:05:11 AM
Nice job John! I do that often and type up the recipes. then I decide what I want to do as I go along.

Just goes to show there's no one right way to make cheese!
Title: Re: Gouda Cheese Making: Four Recipes Compared
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on August 15, 2009, 03:23:22 AM
Most are a matter of choice

1- Higher starter temp means faster acid production
2- Aroma B is the same species mix as Flora Danica (MM100+MM57)
3- Longer ripening means lower pH
4- NA
5- Larger curds means slower whey release and moister cheese
6- Longer cooking (and/or higher temp) means firmer curd that gives off less whey (moister)
7- Washing temp also effects moisture
8- Definitely press in whey. This is actually "prepressing" to start the curds matting.
9- Don't agree with the very light weight for final pressing.
Title: Re: Gouda Cheese Making: Four Recipes Compared
Post by: Cheese Head on August 15, 2009, 04:02:52 AM
SCQ, thanks for feedback :)!

2 - Any advice, thoughts on the different flavor - result from Aroma B/Flora Danica vs using MM100/MM101/BT002? I only have MM100 right now, if I were to order some Flora Danica, how would it taste different?

6 - I would expect longer/higher temp cooking should result in less moist/firmer curds, but you are saying that after pressing you still get a moister cheese as releases less whey, that's interesting and not what I'd have assumed.

8 - Thanks, I'll include this step in my process in tomorrow's 4 US gallons/15.2 liters whole milk Gouda making.

9 - Any advice, experiences with different weights?

Again, thanks for your advice, John.
Title: Re: Gouda Cheese Making: Four Recipes Compared
Post by: Sailor Con Queso on August 15, 2009, 09:31:13 PM
Aroma B or Flora Danica = MM100 +_ LM57
LM57 is (LMC) Leuconostoc mesenteroides subsp. cremoris.
This bacterium does 3 things - thickens the cheese somewhat, adds additional diacetyl flavor, and produces a small amount of CO2. So it all depends on what you want. The proportions of the different cultures and species is what makes it YOUR cheese.

Higher cooking temp or longer time makes the curd firmer so it doesn't give up whey as easily.

For pressing under whey. I line my 6" hoop with cheesecloth and literally put it in my whey pot with the top of the hoop above the waterline. I then put about 1/3 of the curd in the cheesecloth/hoop and press pretty firmly by hand. I add the next 1/3, press, add 1/3 and press. I then pull the hoop, cloth, and curds out and drain for about 1 minute just to reduce the fluids. All without ever letting the curds cool down. Then I move it to my press and use 15# for about 15 minutes and then flip. After that, it's your choice.

My final press on Gouda is 50# on a 6" wheel.

Title: Re: Gouda Cheese Making: Four Recipes Compared
Post by: Cheese Head on August 15, 2009, 10:30:57 PM
Sailor Con Queso

Thanks for info and on placing your curds into hoop directly in the whey rather than as I did today, pre-pressing in whey and then packing into hoop outside of whey. I'll try your method next time. Also thanks for pressing weight. I've currently got about 80 pounds on mine so I'll shorten the pressing time.
Title: Re: Gouda Cheese Making: Four Recipes Compared
Post by: wharris on August 15, 2009, 11:33:37 PM
First of all, this is a fantastic Thread. This thread is why i love this forum.


How long will you age this John?
Title: Re: Gouda Cheese Making: Four Recipes Compared
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 16, 2009, 01:55:55 AM
When it's a washed curd I always scoop the curds to one side with a mat then put the mold in the vat. As I scoop the curds into the molds I lift the mold up out of the whey and give it a shake to settle the curds and press it down with my fist. Very tricky with the 3 kg molds they took up most of the vat.

This is another place to use your siphoned bottles of whey - pressing weights in the whey.
Title: Re: Gouda Cheese Making: Four Recipes Compared
Post by: Cheese Head on August 16, 2009, 04:06:33 PM
Wayne, no idea how long I'll age the current batch (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1814.0.html), hopefully a couple of years, but more probably a couple of weeks ;D.

Debi, just saw how you pre-pressing your curds in mold in whey (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1824.msg13732.html#msg13732) when making Jarlsberg, like Sailor Con Queso above does, thanks for those pictures, helps explain.
Title: Re: Gouda Cheese Making: Four Recipes Compared
Post by: DeejayDebi on August 16, 2009, 05:33:55 PM
I think the bigger your batch size the more important the pre-pressing step becomes. Unless you are really fast (which I am not) the curds cool very quickly with the AC on in the summer.
Title: Re: Gouda Cheese Making: Four Recipes Compared
Post by: Cheese Head on August 16, 2009, 06:02:59 PM
Debi

I think the pre-pressing step is always important but that the two home size recipes above skip it for simplicity.

Also, in commercial recipes above, they don't mention about temp losses when final pressing, I think as huge amounts of curds thus retains more heat. But for small volumes like us, Debra 200 says "pour some of whey through mold to preheat" and Ricky says transfer pre-pressed curds quickly to mold. So your and Sailor's method of pre-pressing in the mold directly in the whey should keep it nice and warm :).