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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Cooked (Swiss) => Topic started by: rosawoodsii on September 28, 2012, 07:55:47 PM

Title: Difference between thermo B and thermo C cultures
Post by: rosawoodsii on September 28, 2012, 07:55:47 PM
I'm currently swimming in milk, so decided to make something new--gruyere.  However, my recipe calls for Thermophilic C, and all I have is Thermo B.  Can I substitute and if so, what differences should I expect?

What is the difference between the two culture types?
Title: Re: Difference between thermo B and thermo C cultures
Post by: dbudge55 on September 28, 2012, 09:20:28 PM
I've made Gruyere with both - I was in the same situation that you are in now. But the Therm B was not nearly as good as the Therm C make as far as making it like other Gruyeres I've eaten. The C had a much nuttier flavor and seemed a bit sweeter. I have no idea why.
Title: Re: Difference between thermo B and thermo C cultures
Post by: bbracken677 on September 28, 2012, 09:34:20 PM
Thermo b is: S. thermophilus and L. bulgaricus culture
Thermo c is: S. thermophilus and L. helveticus culture

According to the Dairy Connection, B is best for soft and semi-soft cheeses whereas C is best for Italian and farmstead types.
Title: Re: Difference between thermo B and thermo C cultures
Post by: linuxboy on September 29, 2012, 12:00:02 AM
You can use B for mozz, higher moisture thermos, and swiss. Anything aged will need helveticus.
Title: Re: Difference between thermo B and thermo C cultures
Post by: rosawoodsii on September 29, 2012, 12:39:47 AM
Well, I used the Thermo C in 3 gallons of milk, so I'll find out in a few weeks if it turned out okay.  Since I was experimenting anyway, I also added a small bit of MA11.  I don't know that I'll have gruyere, but I'll have something, no doubt.  The question only remains--what will it be, and will I eat it or give it to the chickens?
Title: Re: Difference between thermo B and thermo C cultures
Post by: Alpkäserei on September 29, 2012, 03:29:54 AM
bbracken has your answer with the bacterial strains, and linuxboy explains why.

Lactobacillus subr. Helveticus (note, Helvetia is the latin name of Switzerland, which is officially named Confoederatio Helvitica) produces the nutty flavor you associate with long aged Alpine type cheeses, such as Gruyere. It is a long-period maturing culture that produces its flavor only very slowly.

Note though, it is not the only bacteria that can produce this nuttiness.

The culture I use, which I imported from Switzerland, doesn't have it, and it is used to make a very long term aged, extremely nutty cheese. This culture (MK 410 Lyo Kultur) contains

Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. lactis
Streptococcus salivarius subsp. thermophilus
Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis
Title: Re: Difference between thermo B and thermo C cultures
Post by: camgray100 on November 08, 2012, 07:49:13 AM
Okay, so, does this mean I can sub Thermo C for Thermo B in making soft cheese? I am curious because you mentioned that you wanted to have the C for the purpose of aging? Is the moisture the only thing that needs to be manipulated when subbing, or, if I use the C will my soft cheeses be devoid of moisture?

I'm making an American Styled Brie but I'm on a budget and I have the Thermo C...

You can use B for mozz, higher moisture thermos, and swiss. Anything aged will need helveticus.
Title: Re: Difference between thermo B and thermo C cultures
Post by: Alpkäserei on November 15, 2012, 05:18:29 PM
you probably want a meso culture for soft cheeses, if I understand you right. You won't be working in high enough temperatures for the thermo cultures to be active.