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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Cheddared (Normally Stacked & Milled) => Topic started by: Kirkbybil on October 16, 2013, 06:09:50 PM

Title: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Kirkbybil on October 16, 2013, 06:09:50 PM
I bought 4 gallons of milk to make a cheese at the weekend without consulting the 'social calendar' so I suddenly had very limited time.

I saw a recipe for Cantal so, as the make time is only a few hours, that's what I went with.  Started at 16.30 on Sunday and, by 19.00, it was in the press!

It stayed there for 2x12 hours at around 7lbs and since then it has been under 75lbs for 3 days, turning every 24 hours.

I've just removed it from the press and it weighs in at 4.25lbs. It's 6" in diameter and 4" tall.  As you can see, it looks good except for the craggy exterior so I'm a bit worried as I seem to have a history of mould getting into cheese whenever there's a tiny crack so not sure how to stop mould getting a hold of this one?
I don't really want to wax it as this will slow down the ageing and I'll have to probably wait 6-8 months before it's ready.

Anyone have any suggestions as to how best to protect it.

Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: High Altitude on October 16, 2013, 11:31:11 PM
Cream wax (which has mold inhibitors), and then wax it within 6 weeks.  Sorry, not sure how else to keep the molds out of the crevices.

I know someone on here that will tell you to coat it in coconut oil, and that may well be an excellent option!!

Next time, press under warm whey and you'll have better knitting.
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: WovenMeadows on October 17, 2013, 01:51:47 AM
Is this where you pressed the wheel, then broke it up and reformed and pressed again? I haven't attempted Cantal knowing I would need so much pressure to get it to knit well. However, this could be a candidate for larding and bandaging, also something I haven't yet tried. The first coating of fat should fill in the cracks (unless I suppose they are really deep and narrow), then a layer of cloth and more fat. The mold is supposed to just grow on the surface, and gets peeled off with the cloth, but still ages more like a natural rind than a waxed wheel.
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Kirkbybil on October 17, 2013, 08:11:52 AM
Thanks,  Yes, 12 hours then flip, then 12 hours then mill and re-press. Not sure about Larding, I use vegetarian rennet so not sure Lard would be an option - anyone tried butter just to fill in the cracks or does that just go rancid? 
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: WovenMeadows on October 17, 2013, 12:50:23 PM
I didn't mean to imply you had to use (pork) lard - while the technique is called larding, in theory any solid-at-room-temp fat should work - butter, veg shortening, coconut or palm oil, etc.
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Kirkbybil on October 17, 2013, 01:38:02 PM
Sorry, misunderstood - Here in the UK Lard is usually pig fat that Fish and chips get fried in and sometimes leaves an unpleasant coating on your mouth!!

If I 'spread' butter on the outside, and use it like a filler paste, will that solidify and become part of the cheese? Do I do it now, or wait until the cheese dries?
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Kirkbybil on October 18, 2013, 06:32:04 PM
I read a few articles and the wiki and decided to bandage it with Ghee.  Very messy!!

I'll post this in a new thread as well with more detail as someone, somewhere may find it useful.
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Boofer on October 19, 2013, 12:15:16 AM
I'm puzzled why you'd start another thread on the same cheese subject. Why not port everything over to this thread and kill the second one (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,12081.0/topicseen.html)? ???

Tracking progress/updates on a subject via two threads is difficult. :-\

-Boofer-
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Kirkbybil on October 20, 2013, 01:08:24 PM
Apologies, I'm still new to posting here but that makes sense. I killed the other one!
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Boofer on October 20, 2013, 04:18:05 PM
That's great! Thanks.  :)

I know there has been some discussion about bandaging and whether to use lard, butter, or ghee. I think you are one of the few that has tried ghee. Good to have your experience as a datapoint.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Kirkbybil on October 20, 2013, 05:32:08 PM
Okay, I'll update the thread as it matures.

I needed something that would fill the cracks, didn't want animal fat and the Wiki said that ghee didn't go rancid as quickly as butter which is why I chose it.

My wife made the Ghee, which turned out brown. I didn't know it should be 'golden' so I used it anyway but I did taste it and it didn't seem burned so fingers crossed.

It has set solid in the cave at around 55 degrees so I'll sit back and wait for the mould to form.
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Boofer on October 21, 2013, 01:56:07 PM
Whether it works out or not, one thing is certain. You'll be better acquainted with what works and what doesn't (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10888.msg82603.html#msg82603).

-Boofer-
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: JayW on October 24, 2013, 08:50:33 PM
Thanks,  Yes, 12 hours then flip, then 12 hours then mill and re-press. Not sure about Larding, I use vegetarian rennet so not sure Lard would be an option - anyone tried butter just to fill in the cracks or does that just go rancid?

Actually I spent  about 10 days in Salers (same cheese) last year visiting several traditional producers and they do the press and and remill about 8-12 times to really dry out the curds since there is really no cooking temp or time involved.
The milk comes into the cheeseroom in big wooden vats so no chance to reheat above the slightly less than cow temp that they start with. This is how they dry it out over several hours as the acid develops.
This is why you need the higher weight and longer time to press. They don't even mold it until the next day. The rind should be tight and just dry brushing for forming the rind.
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Kirkbybil on October 26, 2013, 02:01:33 PM
Thanks Jay, good to know how its really made - I'm just going to have to cross my fingers and see how it turns out. it's sat in my cave, no mould yet but maybe a little early.

Great post from Boofer by the way - I'm amazed seeing what can go wrong. I must be incredibly lucky, I never even thought about making cheese until Feb this year and, apart from my first three attempts (trad cheddar, farm cheddar and Gouda, which all looked okay but tasted disgusting) they have all turned out very well. Apart from chèvre and other softs, I've made Colby, caerphilly, Lancashire, two lots of fourme d'ambert, manchego, a parm and to everyone's amazement, no more so than my own, they all tasted great. I have another parm, two emmentals, two goudas and the cantal in the cave for Xmas so I'm hoping these turn as as well as the others.

I can't claim to have a clue what I'm doing other than following recipes very carefully, so maybe that's the secret!

As I'm posting this I'm trying to make another four 1lb fourme d'ambert for the Xmas cheesefest (pic attached) so go to get back to my stirring!
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Boofer on October 28, 2013, 12:00:54 AM
You're quite the busy gentleman. :)

When they have reached a certain ripened point, would you please post pics of your Fourme d'Ambert? Could you also give us your (and your audience's) opinions at that point?

I can't claim to have a clue what I'm doing other than following recipes very carefully, so maybe that's the secret!
Attention to detail (including note-taking), repetition, sanitation...I'm sure you're observing these and other factors to achieve success.

Reading your list of cheese makes, it's appears that your desire to attempt many different cheese styles mirrors my own. 8)

Thanks,

-Boofer-
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Kirkbybil on October 28, 2013, 08:42:56 PM
Yep, I've really got the bug. I know people seem to recommend getting one recipe right and sticking to it but I like all kinds of cheese so I just have to give them a go.

I make notes and sterilise everything just like the books say but I have little understanding of the chemistry, have never checked PH, so I just follow the instructions and I find if the timings work out right, the cheese seems to work out right as well.  My first few makes (the ones that were disgusting) all took forever to set, like 4 hours for my Cheddar!) and I had no idea what a clean break looked like so my chances of success were slim and they were taking so long I took some shortcuts to catch up so looking back there's no shock they were not good. Once I understood the importance of the correct amount of rennet, learned about floc times and realised that accuracy of temperature was pretty important, things seemed to work better (surprise, surprise).

I will post updates as the Fourme progresses, first pics attached. I was aiming for 4 x four pounders. I ended up with 4 x 4.25ilbs and a bonus cheese of another 4.5lbs which is great, but I ran out of 4" moulds as you can see.

This will be my third Fourme make. The first two were a little different insofar as the first was softer and more creamy, the second was firmer like I think it should be, the flavours were similar and very, very nice so I hope I stay lucky and these work out as well.






 

Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Kirkbybil on November 09, 2013, 03:34:36 PM
Here's a pic of the Fourme d'Ambert at 14 days old (1 day make, 2 days drying, then 11 days in the ripening container in the cave at 50F and around 80-90%RH).

Just like my last two Fourmes, the blue started to appear at 10 days, exactly as the recipe predicted!   

Can anyone tell me if I should I start a new thread for this Cheese or keep the update here?
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Geodyne on November 09, 2013, 09:04:02 PM
I quite like it when the updates are in the same thread as the make. It gives one a chance to see what became of the cheese. :)
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: H-K-J on November 09, 2013, 09:36:39 PM
I agree, keep it here 8)
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Kirkbybil on November 10, 2013, 11:24:26 AM
That's the reason for my question though, it's not the same cheese as the Original make (or the topic title) which was a Cantal. Will anyone looking for info on a Fourme spot it here? 

I don't really mind, just trying to understand the correct/best way of using the forum.
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: H-K-J on November 10, 2013, 02:56:36 PM
OK since it is a different cheese I think it would be appropriate to start a new thread with a new title in the correct board.
didn't understand this was another make and not the one in the title :-[
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Boofer on November 10, 2013, 03:56:22 PM
OK since it is a different cheese I think it would be appropriate to start a new thread with a new title in the correct board.
didn't understand this was another make and not the one in the title :-[
Let's see, Cantal...Fourme d'Ambert...yeah, seems different to me too! ::)

Definitely need to have the cheese styles in their right places. ;)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Geodyne on November 10, 2013, 07:41:19 PM
Oops, ignore my misplaced, knee-jerk response!  :-[

It's definitely easier to find cheese makes when they have their name in the title.
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Kirkbybil on November 10, 2013, 09:33:39 PM

Okay, moved the Fourme thread to here:

http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?topic=12164.0;topicseen (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?topic=12164.0;topicseen)

I'll keep updating the Cantal here.

 
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Kirkbybil on November 13, 2013, 11:50:15 PM
Just looked at my Cantal, which seems to have started to develop some surface mould. Not sure what it is, it's in my 'cave' with emmentals, parmesans, Fourmes (in ripening containers) etc.

When I've read about bandaged cheeses I've seen them seemingly left to develop surface mould but I'm not sure what this is, whether I should just leave it be or if I should rub/wash it off?

Any thoughts anyone please?
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Kirkbybil on November 24, 2013, 07:56:05 PM
Any one have any thoughts on this please?

My Cantal had a lot more mould growing, I wasn't sure what to do but, as it all seemed to be on the surface of the ghee, I wiped it off with a little brine and it comes off very easily.

However, as you can see from the second pic, it clearly has some mould under (or within) the ghee.

Does anyone have any advice?  Should I use leave it to get covered in mould or should I treat it like having mould under a wax and strip it down and re-bandage which I don't really want to have to do as it would be a big hassle and seem to defeat the object.

Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: WovenMeadows on November 28, 2013, 12:55:34 AM
I would just leave it, mold on hard cheeses doesn't seem to effect the cheese too much. It's possible some blue molds will work their way into the "crags" you first mentioned. But I think at this point let the molds go and do what they will, rather than try to maintain a pristine rind.
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: High Altitude on January 02, 2014, 07:05:53 PM
Whatever became of this one?  Would love to see the inner paste and get tasting notes  :D!
Title: Re: First Cantal - a bit craggy!
Post by: Kirkbybil on January 07, 2014, 08:04:13 PM
Here's an update as requested with picture- The Cantal is now 12 weeks old and still maturing.

I tasted it around two weeks ago by cutting through the ghee and the muslin and using a thin sharp knife as a trier. It tasted good - like a mild cheddar - but I really want this one to age out to see if it develops a strong flavour.
 
As I made so much cheese for Xmas (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,12310.msg94918.html#msg94918 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,12310.msg94918.html#msg94918)) I didn't really need this one so I have left it in my cave to continue ageing.

As you can see, it is developing a mould, although it's like picking up a lump of butter as it is covered in a layer of ghee, so the mould, I assume, is just on the service of the ghee.

I will probably leave it another month or so before I try it again to see how the flavour is progressing.