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GENERAL CHEESE MAKING BOARDS (Specific Cheese Making in Boards above) => EQUIPMENT - Aging Cheese, Caves => Topic started by: ArnaudForestier on January 22, 2014, 02:13:05 PM

Title: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: ArnaudForestier on January 22, 2014, 02:13:05 PM
OK, mundane question...but no one in my city carries spruce boards, only pine and then some species of hardwoods.  Where do you guys source (preferably, aged at least somewhat) spruce?  Cut it yourself?

Secondly, if spruce shares at least family taxonomy with pine, what's the uproar with pine?  Before I crashed and burned and stopped doing everything including cheese awhile back, I aged on pine, without issue - lots of semi-hard to hard cheeses in tommes and beauforts.  I will admit I boiled the tar out of the boards (pun intended), but spruce is a very aromatic tree...

Just tilting at windmills, very minor issue, curious on others' thoughts.
Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: linuxboy on January 22, 2014, 03:33:39 PM
There's no issue with using pine. Works great. So does fir. So does hemlock. Use what you can find.
Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: ArnaudForestier on January 22, 2014, 03:34:07 PM
Thanks, Pav, much easier. :)
Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: jwalker on January 22, 2014, 06:22:20 PM
They may  have pine and just don't know it.

Most coniferous graded lumber is stamped S-P-F , for spruce-pine-fir they are all grouped together.
S-P-F includes balsam fir , all spruce , all pine , hemlock , and larch (or tamarack to you Americans).

 Douglas fir is separated.

You can tell the fir apart as it is usually quite red , as for spruce and pine , look for the S-P-F stamp , and buy the boards with the smallest and fewest knots , chances are , it is spruce and not pine , as pine usually has more and larger knots , even then , it's hard to be sure.

They are so close though , I don't think it would really matter.
Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: ArnaudForestier on January 22, 2014, 06:45:27 PM
Thanks, JWalker, shows how little I know.  Will do. 

By the way - NICE caravan!  Did you build that?  I'm not a gypsy swing guitarist, I just play one TV..... 8)
Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: jwalker on January 22, 2014, 08:43:49 PM
Thanks, JWalker, shows how little I know.  Will do. 

By the way - NICE caravan!  Did you build that?  I'm not a gypsy swing guitarist, I just play one TV..... 8)

No , but I am building one similar to it this spring , just amassing the materials now , it will sit on a 1947 five ton truck frame with 22 inch wheels , which I have already scrounged from my neighbors property.

I did build a small guest cabin on our property similar (but with a sod roof) , but this next one I want on wheels , to be able to move to different locations.

This is the one In my yard.

Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: ArnaudForestier on January 22, 2014, 08:51:09 PM
Wow, beautiful, JWalker - all of it!

At our summer gypsy swing fest there was a guy, a caravan builder, selling his last one before retiring.  In the background:

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_r_NPc7ZCpT4/SpEKmIul9yI/AAAAAAAAIgE/iXa7VcqFhoM/s400/IMGP2260.JPG)

Wish I had a better shot, this was the last one....
Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: Tiarella on January 23, 2014, 12:48:22 PM
I've always wanted a caravan after vacationing in one, rented the horse to pull it too, in England when I was a kid.  Lots of fun parking in farmer's fields (we were given a map/list of where we could ask to park) and buying milk and eggs from them.  A UK builder of shepherd wagons has opened a US branch locally and I'm psyched although they are not as pretty as the Gypsy ones.

A friend organizes the Django in June workshop/concert series in Northampton, MA each year and I always think I'm going to find time to hear more of it but it's rather peak farming time.......      Or does he call it the "Django in Djune"?   :D. Can't remember.
Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: ArnaudForestier on January 23, 2014, 01:05:52 PM
Wow, Tiarella, Andrew's your friend!  The man's both a god and a saint!  DIJ was one of the most transformative weeks of my life.  I had hoped to go this year again, but regretfully it looks like my body is being stubborn.  Will have to see. 

Anyway, say hi to Andrew (Paul, Madison), wish him well as he continues to pull this one together. 

Such a small planet.
Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: Tiarella on January 23, 2014, 01:17:18 PM
Wow, Tiarella, Andrew's your friend!  The man's both a god and a saint!  DIJ was one of the most transformative weeks of my life.  I had hoped to go this year again, but regretfully it looks like my body is being stubborn.  Will have to see. 

Anyway, say hi to Andrew (Paul, Madison), wish him well as he continues to pull this one together. 

Such a small planet.

Well, if you come again and our guest room suite is vacant you are welcome to use it for the whole week if you claim dibs ahead of time.  We are about 45 minutes drive from Northampton.  I don't know Andrew well but we're part of the same community so run into each other a fair amount and have talked at times about permaculture, sustainable living, etc.  If I run into him, happens less often now that I'm out farming more than downtown, I'll relay your regards to him!   :D
Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: ArnaudForestier on January 23, 2014, 03:13:51 PM
Well, wow again, thank you, Tiarella, that's really kind of you.  Maybe I'll bag DIJ and just help you farm.  ;D

Andrew's a very good guy, glad to know you in that circle as well as this one.  I was a member of Shakespeare & Company, trained with them at Smith College...very strange to come back to the college last year, 20 years older...it seems timelessly beautiful, your country, while I've, er, aged.... :(
Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: Tiarella on January 23, 2014, 03:48:41 PM
Well, wow again, thank you, Tiarella, that's really kind of you.  Maybe I'll bag DIJ and just help you farm.  ;D


It's a deal!   ;D  I'll milk the goats and you can make the cheese.  I want to make an outdoor kitchen here with an earthen oven to making pizza (and other things) with food straight from the garden.  Joseph and I will some day probably manage to create that but until then it's all a dream and I have time to perfect my mozz cheese.  I think making cheese outside could be a lot of fun.  You can see a bit of our place here www.foxmountainfarm.blogspot.com (http://www.foxmountainfarm.blogspot.com)
 ^-^
Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: ArnaudForestier on January 23, 2014, 03:59:15 PM
Great site, and what gorgeous food, Tiarella!  I love the name Fauna - my sister in law's cat, my favorite.  My dream would be an outdoor oven for baking, a make room for cheese, an underground cave like Oude Kaas's, and a brewery that could make my life easy, handling the 1/2 BBL system I built.  So far, it's a stone in our home oven...and some dough!

Detmolder Three-Stage Rye (30ish hours!)

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p316/pkphotodo/DSCN1007_zps003a3426.jpg) (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/pkphotodo/media/DSCN1007_zps003a3426.jpg.html)

Just my levain boule:

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p316/pkphotodo/wwlevain11-23-13_zps314e9cfa.jpg) (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/pkphotodo/media/wwlevain11-23-13_zps314e9cfa.jpg.html)

-Thank you again, Tiarella.  I really miss New England (used to live in Lenox, Providence, Londonderry CT, Pomfret) and hope to pay a visit - hopefully, DIJ!
Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: Digitalsmgital on January 23, 2014, 05:16:12 PM
Nice looking rye loaf, I have been making forays into that arena without much success.  :-\
Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: Tiarella on January 24, 2014, 03:42:44 AM
Nice bread!!!!!  Yes, a wood-fired oven is on my dream list.  I also want a make room and a cave system that has a root and fruit storage cellar space AND a cheese cave space.  Here's a recent loaf I made.  I've been grinding Einkorn grain into flour.  It's an ancient wheat with twice the protein and almost twice the minerals of modern manipulated wheats.  Check out the wheats at www.growseed.org (http://www.growseed.org)   (I think I have that correct)   We helped her plant out her varieties and in exchange she gave us a big bag of grain.  A few varieties to plant also.  It's my favorite! 
Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: ArnaudForestier on January 24, 2014, 03:03:42 PM
Thanks, Dave, and Tiarella - man, that is a beautiful loaf, and your own home-milled einkorn at that!  A mill is the one thing I'm lacking - I like to do a lot of ryes, and given my wife's Baltic heritage, lots of black breads with cracked grains - but nothing to crack them with!

My son sings in our city's youth choir.  They've been selected as the only U.S. group to go to the International Youth Festival in summer, 2014, in Aberdeen, Scotland (I'm so proud of my boy!).  An early start is a Robert Burns dinner this weekend...and this French dude (I think I prefer Pav's "gallic bastard") makes French food so, shhhh....a "rustic loaf" and some "farmer's cheese" I'm donating to the cause are not a boule and some chèvre .  8)

The boule:

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p316/pkphotodo/bouleforburns1_zps08119d5c.jpg) (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/pkphotodo/media/bouleforburns1_zps08119d5c.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: Tiarella on January 24, 2014, 03:41:39 PM
That is some beautiful loaf you've got there!!!  I'm growing small patches of three ancient wheats this year.  Planted late summer to harvest this year.  Bread from homegrown flour might rate up there with cheese from our goats!   :D

if you get to Scotland there is a place I'm partial to on one of the Hebridian islands.  It's the Isle of Gigha and a friend and former distributor of mine lives in the Baron's mansion (although he's got it on the market) and it is a very beautiful 26 bedroom B&B on fifty acres of beautiful gardens.  I guess it's a good bird watching place although I'm more into plant watching.  Google "Achamore House" and check it out.  Worth a stay there if you ever get a chance.  I got flown over there three times; the first time to do some ghost clearing and the other two times to teach.  I miss that place!!!
Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: ArnaudForestier on January 24, 2014, 07:55:24 PM
That's impressive, Tiarella.  I buy local rye but get my wheat from KA, generally - it's AP mirrors what I know of the lower protein, Type 55 I'm used to working with.  Do you plan to market any?

Thanks on the Scotland ideas.  This is a huge step for us - our son is going, as a young man, unaccompanied by us.  This organization is fantastic and we know they are taking stewardship of our boys very seriously, still, for us this is a milestone.  Your description sounds incredible, will tuck it away as we hope to go as a family (my wife and I went to England some years ago, spent some wonderful weeks in the Cotswolds and points north...but Ireland and Scotland, we want to see, as a family).
Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: Tiarella on January 24, 2014, 09:53:39 PM
That's impressive, Tiarella.  I buy local rye but get my wheat from KA, generally - it's AP mirrors what I know of the lower protein, Type 55 I'm used to working with.  Do you plan to market any?

Thanks on the Scotland ideas.  This is a huge step for us - our son is going, as a young man, unaccompanied by us.  This organization is fantastic and we know they are taking stewardship of our boys very seriously, still, for us this is a milestone.  Your description sounds incredible, will tuck it away as we hope to go as a family (my wife and I went to England some years ago, spent some wonderful weeks in the Cotswolds and points north...but Ireland and Scotland, we want to see, as a family).


Go to that website www.growseed.org (http://www.growseed.org) and see what cool info is there.  She sells seed I think also.  We helped here plant out seed from seed banks all over the world and although all were wheats there was such variation!  I won't have any to sell.......       Do enjoy Scotland when you go.  Here's some images of the place I recommended.  I think one of them is one I took that he wanted to use for his brochure.  He couldn't reproduce the shot for some reason....I guess because we have different cameras.   http://www.google.com/search?q=Achamore+House&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=JODiUsrxEuW2sATahoCwAw&ved=0CFwQsAQ&biw=1017&bih=946 (http://www.google.com/search?q=Achamore+House&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=JODiUsrxEuW2sATahoCwAw&ved=0CFwQsAQ&biw=1017&bih=946)

Hey, wrong thread I know but this place says they sell used 5 and 10 gallon SS milk cans but I just don't see where.  You could call them. 
http://www.heritage-equipment.com/used/stainless-steel-milk-cans.html?p=2 (http://www.heritage-equipment.com/used/stainless-steel-milk-cans.html?p=2)
Title: Re: Spruce Boards - where? And important?
Post by: ArnaudForestier on January 24, 2014, 11:30:48 PM
Wow, thank you for the heads up, Tiarella.  I know very little about primordial grains, except what I've read in some of the breadmaking bibles.  Very cool thing, what they're doing. 

Thanks, too, on the heads up on the s/s cans.  Will dig around. 

Paul