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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Blue Mold (Penicillium roqueforti) Ripened => Topic started by: Smurfmacaw on June 08, 2013, 03:18:11 AM

Title: First Blue
Post by: Smurfmacaw on June 08, 2013, 03:18:11 AM
Well, since I like blue cheese and Stilton is pretty much my favorite I decided to go for it.

Used the make from wa cheese (thanks Pav). 

Some interesting things afoot, finally got a pH meter that works. 
so here we go:

and excuse the typos, the big blue bird in the avatar is "helping" me type!

Make:

3 Gal Trader Joes creamline milk
Flora Danica starter
3/4 tsp CaCl
41 drops calf rennet
Chooit C9 PR (high proteolitic and aroma but that is what i could get today)

brouhgt the milk to 70 degrees
added a small pinch of the PR and 1/2 tsp of Flora Danica
pH was 6.85!  Meter calibrates fine and measures other things that would give an expected pH.  Don't know what is goingo on with the milk.

Let it ripen 90 minutes (got a .02 drop so I guess the FD is finally waking up)

Added CaCl and let it rest for 5 minutes.

Added 41 drops rennet and got floc at 12.5 minutes.  Used a floc factor of four.  Great curds and very easy to work with.

after50 min, cut to 1 inch.

Let brew for 90 min.  Occaisional stirring to keep from matting.  pH still high but dropping slowly.

pH dropped to 6.36.  not quite what I wanted but I wanted to proceed.  Curds looked really good and agian were easy to work with.

Moved curd to a cheese cloth bag.  Wow, lot of curd.  tied the ol' Stilton knot and put it back in the pot.  Tightened tbe knot twice in two hours.  Lot of whey expelled but i let it set in the why.  pH dropped to 6.0.

removed bag of curds, discarded whey and it is now sitting at room temp to acidify.  Made ricotta but only got about 300 gm's.

More to follow and of course pics.

2300 and  the pH is 5.2.  the flora danica is finally working and how!


Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Smurfmacaw on June 08, 2013, 04:53:12 PM
Got up this morning and the curd pH was 4.8 so I added 2 tsp salt per gal of milk (6 tsp total) after milling it to 1/2 to 1 inch pieces.  Molded it up in a 7.5 inch mold.  Weight of the curd was 3lb 10 oz.  Didn't take a lot of pics since I was doing my math homework in during each waiting period but I'll post a few in a little while.
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on June 08, 2013, 06:37:00 PM
I look forward to seeing some pics of this as well as the blue developing.
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Smurfmacaw on June 08, 2013, 09:49:02 PM
Only have two pics at the moment.  I'll take a pic when I unmold it in four days.  Very moist curd.  I decided that the 7.5 inch mold wasn't going to work since it had a bottom and the cheese will take a bit to knit.  Put it in a 5.5 inch mold and it actually fit.

Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Tiarella on June 09, 2013, 10:56:23 AM
hey, I'm curious about your ricotta and whether it will immediately become blue ricotta.  Can you report back on that please?  I am wondering.......   :P.  Thinking it could make great blue ravioli. 
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Smurfmacaw on June 09, 2013, 04:47:16 PM
Would the PR spores survive being taken to 190 degrees for 20 minutes?  That would make for an interesting filling though.....I might have to innoculate some ricotta to see what happens.....sort of a blue ricotta salata.
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on June 09, 2013, 07:44:17 PM
The heat should kill them and you shouldn't notice any difference.
A blue Ricotta? Let us know your thoughts if you do make one.
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: shotski on June 10, 2013, 10:13:31 AM
Would the PR spores survive being taken to 190 degrees for 20 minutes?  That would make for an interesting filling though.....I might have to innoculate some ricotta to see what happens.....sort of a blue ricotta salata.

Smurfmacaw the heat does kill the PR. I have made ricotta this way a few times. Tastes like ricotta :)
Title: Re: First Blue - It's Alive!!
Post by: Smurfmacaw on June 12, 2013, 03:47:26 PM
Flipped it this morning before I went to work and discovered that the PR is alive after all.  I was beginning to wonder but it's there.

Title: Re: First Blue more pictures
Post by: Smurfmacaw on June 13, 2013, 12:30:13 AM
When I got home from work the mold looked funny.  Since it's the 4th day I pulled the mold and this is what I found.  The sides were completely white this morning.  This must be a fast growing strain.  After admiring it for a while I smoothed it out and into the cheese cave it went.

Title: Re: First Blue more pictures
Post by: shotski on June 13, 2013, 01:11:25 AM
When I got home from work the mold looked funny.  Since it's the 4th day I pulled the mold and this is what I found.  The sides were completely white this morning.  This must be a fast growing strain.  After admiring it for a while I smoothed it out and into the cheese cave it went.

PR is aggressive. had you let it out one more day it would have been pretty much covered. Nice job on you cheese.
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on June 13, 2013, 06:23:17 AM
That looks like it is going to have some very nice veining. Well done!
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Smurfmacaw on June 13, 2013, 05:42:31 PM
This one smells really good so I'm looking forward to watching it develop but most of all trying it in a couple of months.  I'll post more pics as it develops.  I'll pierce it the first time this weekend.  Meanwhile the plan is to keep it under a bowl to keep the humidity nice and high while the blue develops and then let it mature with the rest of the inhabitants of the cave.  I've got to get some containers since I seem to be having trouble maintaining decent RH in the dorm fridge that serves as a cave.  Daughter is studying abroad next year so I have a second dorm fridge that I just need to get a controller for.  Got to figure out the humidity thing though.
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Smurfmacaw on June 19, 2013, 12:58:00 AM
The cheese smells fabulous.  I'm letting it stay out for 30 min twice per day to get some air.  I have it under a bowl to keep the humidity up since I'm having some issues with RH in the cave.  It's just now starting to show signs of blue on the outside of the rind after I smoothed it....is that normal or should I give it more time in the air.  I'm keeping it at 52 degrees and I estimate the RH inside the bowl is around 95%.  Usually a light condensation on the walls of the bowl but the cheese is not wet and does not show obvious signs of condensation dripping on it.  There does seem to be a decent case of the endemic GC on the rind.  Will the PC win or do I need to attend to that?

thanks

Mike

I alos got my new cheese trier from Yoav.  Best price going and looks great.  Can't wait until this cheese is older and I get to play with my new toy.  Pictures in a day or two when things get going a little better.
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Vina on June 19, 2013, 08:18:44 AM
oh, this is looking good. keep us posted as it develops!
Title: Re: First Blue Latest Photo
Post by: Smurfmacaw on June 20, 2013, 12:34:51 AM
Looks like the blue is starting to come along on the outside along with some other interesting things.  Hoping the blue wins the day though and makes a nice rind.  I'll probably pierce it again in 10 days or so.  Should I repierce it in the same spots or pick new ones?
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Boofer on June 20, 2013, 07:10:48 PM
Try to reopen the holes you made initially to give the inside blues some air.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: First Blue - Getting Gnarlier
Post by: Smurfmacaw on June 25, 2013, 07:31:18 PM
Here's the cheese at 2.5 weeks.  Smells pretty good and the rind seems to be coming along.  Trying to keep it at 90% rh or so.  Getting that same golden color as H-K-J's stilton.  Not totally sure what that means but at least it is consistent with other folks results.  I think I'll probably pierce again in two weeks to encourage the blue veining.  The current holes don't appear clogged yet.

Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Vina on June 26, 2013, 10:49:48 AM
yours looking great! it looks like .. real cheese

I also just (May 10th) tried my first blue, it really looks different ;-) as my tial started with onlu 2 gals of milk, so I have a liitle square to experiment.
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Smurfmacaw on July 01, 2013, 01:44:01 AM
Here's the latest look at the cheese.  Interesting golden color but its got a coating of white mold.  It isn't fuzzy so I'm assuming it's GC.  Question - it's starting to get a slight ammonia smell.  My understanding is that is caused by the white mold not getting enough oxygen.  I was rather hoping for the typical stilton appearance after the blue dies back but it doesn't seem to be doing much in the way of blue on the outside.  Would it work to either wash the cheese with a mild brine and then make up a PR spray and reinnoculate the outside with blue?  It's probably running about 90-95 on the RH inside its enclosure.  I've also thought about a salt rubdown to remove the white mold before reinnoculating with blue.

thoughts?  Advice?

thanks

Also - for the eagle eyed among you - the RH on the hygrometer is the ambient in my kitchen not what is in the mini cave.  San Diego is pretty much a desert so the RH runs very low all the time.
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: jwalker on July 01, 2013, 02:23:56 PM
I read thru your make , but I didn't see if you said you brined or dry salted this one , I may have just missed it if you did.

I find the blues that I dry salt seem to create a much more hospitable environment for the PR , the brined ones tend to favor the white mold.

That's just my experience so far , so washing with a salt brine may be a good idea , maybe even applying some dry salt afterward , then some more PR.

Just a thought , but I've had a lot of trouble with the whites taking over as well.

Looks good though , good luck.
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Smurfmacaw on July 01, 2013, 04:47:29 PM
I dry salted it with 2 tsp per gallon (total of 6 tsp).  I'm thinking I'm going to go ahead and wash it down just as you mentioned and give it a good salt rub down and then reinnoculate it with PR on the outside.  I've got an oxygen concentrator and am thinking of rigging it to provide more oxygen inside the cave.  I've still got to figure out a way to increase the RH in the fridges.  In my kitchen it was 35% yesterday.
Title: Cleaned it up and repierced it
Post by: Smurfmacaw on July 03, 2013, 10:42:37 PM
Well,

I got tired of the white mold so I used a piece of cheesecloth in strong brine and wiped it down.  Used a bit of cheese salt and gave it a nice salt exfoliation and then reinoculated it with PR spray.  Pierced it with innoculated needle but I don't think I really needed that.  I can tell it's much creamier than the last time I pierced it and if the oozy bits are any indication I'm going to like this cheese.  It already has a nice mild blue flavor and once the white mold was gone it smells right too.

I've got a couple of days off so I need to decide what to make next.  Spent the morning making mother cultures.  Now I have a half gallon each of TA-61, MA-4002 and Flora Danica cooking.

Here's the latest cheesy photo.

Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: John@PC on July 03, 2013, 11:50:02 PM
Curious as to what you used to pierce.  Those holes are a lot bigger than my skewers make.  Begs the question is there an optimum hole size?  I love the blue veining and would go to a larger piercing (or more holes) if it resulted in more "blue".
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Smurfmacaw on July 04, 2013, 12:01:27 AM
I used the sanitized probe of my largest thermometer.  Holes are .125 or so.  The first time I pierced it I used stainless skewers like everyone talks about but I didn't notice they were flat instead of round until I started.  Those holes were sub-optimal in my opinion.  I watched a video on the commercial production of stilton and their "piercers" were pretty fierce (large) so I though I'd let plenty of oxygen in on this one since I'm pretty much a fan of in your face blue cheese.  My wife is slowly coming around and is beginning to like more challenging cheeses though I think getting her to try Casu Marzu is a lost cause (look at me talking all big....I don't know if I could do it either ::)

I'm going to let it go another two weeks before I break out the cheese trier and take a core sample.

I would be interested in hearing from the pro's on their opinion of piercing size and it's effect on the cheese and veining.

I was intrigued by the change in texture already.  I thought it would take longer for the PR to do it's thing.  I guess the PV strain has high lipolytic and proteolytic activity but still I didn't expect it to make that much of a difference that fast.  I've got high hopes for this one......now I just gotta decide what to make on Friday..............
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Boofer on July 05, 2013, 06:35:25 AM
Curious as to what you used to pierce.  Those holes are a lot bigger than my skewers make.  Begs the question is there an optimum hole size?  I love the blue veining and would go to a larger piercing (or more holes) if it resulted in more "blue".
I'm no expert, especially on blues, but I read somewhere about a knitting needle being something close to an optimum piercing tool. A large enough diameter without being excessive, long enough to pierce a 7-8-inch Tomme, and inexpensive. I tried other meat skewers and such, but the hole made is flattened (to keep the meat from rotating on the skewer) so it closes up pretty easily.

I've attached pics of what I use.

Edited: Well, I recall them being there. No idea where the pics went to while I was dozing. ::)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Tiarella on July 05, 2013, 10:47:43 AM
aah Boofer, not a knitter I see.  Knitting needles come in a wide range of diameters and lengths.  I think I've seen 4 mm suggested but I may be remembering incorrectly.  I didn't have what was suggested so I used a larger diameter also but I can't be part of the testing of the impacts of differing diameters because I'm such a hack at cheese in general and blues even more so.   ??? 

I think you forgot to attach the photo of what you use and you know me, curious to a fault.   :o. So I'd love to see.......
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: meyerandray on July 05, 2013, 01:43:58 PM
Gianaclis Caldwell suggests a 4mm knitting needle, as Kathrin said.  I have been using just that.  My first blue was not very blue inside, a lot less than what I had hoped, although I had only pierced once on the top and once on the bottom 7 days later, never re-opened holes and never did horizontal piercing.  There was a great blue flavor, smell and the cheese was very much softened by the PR.  With my second blue, which is still aging (about 45 days old now) I have pierced tope, bottom and sides 3 times now, still using that 4 mm needle, but considering using a chopstick-sized piercer.  I have a young blue (about 10 days old) who also got its first piercing with the 4mm however when I crack open the older blue toma if it lacks in blue inside, I am going to up the diameter for the new guy.
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: jwalker on July 06, 2013, 12:45:41 PM
I have been using bamboo chopsticks , the big end first , they're about the same size as the knitting kneedles  ;D.

I like them , I'll probably keep using them as I don't know where the knitting kneedles  ;D are , I know we have some somewhere though.
Title: Re: First Blue - Washing Paid Off
Post by: Smurfmacaw on July 06, 2013, 04:56:29 PM
As I flipped the cheese and snorted sampled the aroma from inside the inverted bowl, washing the white mold off the rind paid big dividends.  Now it has that nice blue cheese aroma again instead of the funky ammonia smell.  No major blooming on the outer rind though the inside of the newly pierced holes seem to be darkening up nicely.

Does anyone know which type of mold will win the day if I upped the oxygen content of the mini cave?  I actually have an oxygen concentrator and could easily give the cheese a nicely oxygen enhanced atmosphere if it would help.....or I could do it periodically, say for 30 min per day (that would be the easiest) or should I stop overthinking and let the cheese do it's thing?

cheers

Mike
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: H-K-J on July 06, 2013, 05:11:00 PM
I take my Stilton for a walk daily, airing it for 30 to 45 minutes, at the same time I flip it and then back to the cave.
Just let it do it's thing, they do get scary lookin, I have yet had one go bad 8)
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Smurfmacaw on July 09, 2013, 11:47:55 PM
Since it's a month old and I was wondering how it's going on the inside I broke out the cheese iron and took a core sample.  Nice a creamy with plenty of PR growth already.  Slightly salty and a mice level of blue flavor.  I think it'll be pretty much ready for the big unveiling in another month or two depending on how impatient I get.  Here's a pic of what the cheese iron brought out.....
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Spike on July 10, 2013, 12:19:48 AM
Wow, looks good enough to eat! I do not think I could wait 2 more months.
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Smurfmacaw on July 20, 2013, 03:45:53 AM
I'm dang near just eating it.  I really want to wait another month but the rind is doing nothing and I have to keep washing it to keep it from smelling bad.  If I move it to colder storage, what should I wrap it with??  I've got cheese paper and can get whatever else.

thoughts?

thanks

Mike
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: jwalker on July 20, 2013, 01:06:34 PM
My last blue was made with raw milk , it was one month old and was pretty much ready to eat , but I wanted to age it one more month to be sure it was over 60 days.

I wrapped in cheese paper and put in cold fridge for another month , it was Great !

Continued to soften and age just enough.

That's what I would do if you don't want to eat it now.
Title: Re: First Blue - the tasting
Post by: Smurfmacaw on July 30, 2013, 04:00:27 PM
I decided to cut the "stilton" last night as my grand daughter likes blue cheese.

Nice and creamy texture, much different than when first made, with a definite blue aroma.  The aroma from the PV strain of PR falls somewhere between strong and intense.  Definitely has the PR tang with cheesy milky undertones.  The veining was well developed and pretty much exactly what I was looking for.

The taste - home run on this one.  Rave reviews at work from my foodie buds.  The taste is definitely stilton with an intensely salty piquant blue flavor.  I think this strain of blue might be a little much for a normal stilton so I'm glad I didn't age it out to 90 days or pierce it again.  The flavor starts off as salty like in an "artisan" stilton with the milk softness and grassy flavors for a fleeting instant until the strong blue tang from the PR kicks in and dominates the flavor.  The texture came out as slightly crumbly with a really nice creaminess.  You can feel the mold veining on your tongue which gives an added depth to the texture.  Overall, not a cheese for the faint of heart but not totally overwhelming either.

Next time I'll reduce the salt slightly just to see what effect it has and I'm either going to buy a piece of quality stilton from the local cheese monger and use it's PR or order something a little less "in-your-face" just to keep with the style though I do really like this one.  (Usually when I go to Venissimo and buy cheese, I ask for the one that will grab you by the tongue and beat you with it.")

My wife pronounced it fit to eat and announced we are having roasted potato salad with watercress and crumbled stilton this weekend.....guess I'll have to start another one!

Extremely happy with this cheese.  And now a picture.

Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Boofer on July 30, 2013, 09:50:47 PM
Congrats. Does the granddaughter approve?

-Boofer-
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: Spike on July 30, 2013, 11:46:49 PM
I have been waiting for that picture. Looks great. Have a cheese!
Title: Re: First Blue
Post by: H-K-J on August 03, 2013, 03:30:37 PM
that is so perdy :P
A cheese for your nummy lookin Stilton ;D