CheeseForum.org ยป Forum
CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Cheddared (Normally Stacked & Milled) => Topic started by: H-K-J on September 21, 2013, 10:19:25 PM
-
I am thinking about a cheddar (stacked and milled), I have seen some people using MA 4001 stater culture. I noticed this has
(LL) Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis
(LLC) Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris
(LLD) Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis biovar diacetylactis
(ST) Streptococcus thermophilus
I have MM 100-101 and it has
(LL) Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis
(LLC) Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris
(LLD) Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis biovar diacetylactis
the only difference being the (ST) Streptococcus thermophilus in the MA 4001
I also have TA 61-62 and it is (ST) Streptococcus thermophilus
If I use 3/8 tsp of MM 100-101 and 3/16 tsp of TA 61-62 would this be anywhere close to the MA 4001 or should MM and TA ratio be higher or lower of one or the other?
I am just trying to utilize the cultures I have on hand.
also was thinking of putting some Aroma B in the mix would this have an adverse affect on the outcome?
Just running things through my mind and bouncing it around the forum ::)
Harold
-
Never mind, in the mold as I type, guess we'll see how well this goes :-\
-
Did you end up doing: 3/8 tsp of MM 100-101 and 3/16 tsp of TA 61-62? I don't know enough to help...
Good luck!
-
Well I got uh little crazy and went with 5/16 tsp. MM 100, 5/16 tsp. Aroma B and 1/8 tsp. TA-61 :o
This is a 5 gal. batch (can't see makin a 2 gal mistake hope it turns into fine make LOL)
the attached pic was taken after the 3rd press
-
I like the going crazy act. I hope it turns out great. I can't imagine it turning out bad. Looks good so far.
-
Yes, very nice looking cheddar. Well done.
- Jeff
-
I've been combining TA61 with either MM100 or Aroma B in a number of recent makes for lack of M4001 and its been working well so far. Probably not the same as the 4001 I'm sure, but then again I go for a 'rustic peasant' style cheese in many cases. Mostly Spanish, northern Italian, and eastern French cheeses.
It will be interesting to hear how your 3 culture cheddar turns out. I expect it will be quite nice.
-
thanks for the encouragement everyone ^-^
I edited the above statement with the correct amount of each culture I used (good thing I keep notes)
After the overnight press this has knitted really well, this is my first stacked and milled cheddar and I didn't take a lot of pictures, being a new style of cheese (for me anyway) I tried very hard to hit my temps and times, how and when to drain, cheddaring and milling, paying allot of attention on keeping the curd warm throughout the whole process.
I have been searching the forum and came to the conclusion that temp before molding and pressing was very important, with that on my mind I almost added a little meat to the cheese when cutting the curd mass into french fry pieces LOL :o
After all the worries and precautions the pressing went along nicely and the finale knit is everything I wanted it to be, ;D 8)
after the over night press it weighed in at 4 lbs. 14 1/4 oz. now we will wait till around Christmas to see how it turn's out.
I know, it's gonna be a little young for a cheddar, oh well ;)
Going to find another cheese that I haven't made yet and there is allot of cheese out there ::)
-
Very interesting make. I'll look forward to the results. :o
-
We will see what happens Al.
thinking wine brine wash, wife and I liked the Caerphilly we have done this way.
I wouldn't mind seeing a covering of white mold either, has been drying in my cool room for three day's and is still a little damp and soft but firming up.
might start to wash in a couple more day's.
-
Started to get some unwanted molds after a week of drying and I am not a fan of moldy rinds on my cheddar's (Stiltons being excluded) ;)
so we decided to have a washed rind cheddar, this has worked well on our Caerphilly.
being an experimental make as it is I don't think turning it into a science project for molds is a good idea :o
I wouldn't mind getting a nice white Geo covering on it though 8)
-
so we decided to have a washed rind cheddar
Don't want to interrupt the science project, but why not just wipe with vinegar & salt as needed?
-Boofer-
-
so we decided to have a washed rind cheddar
Don't want to interrupt the science project, but why not just wipe with vinegar & salt as needed?
-Boofer-
I'll have to try that next time :-[
-
after the wash the rind cleared up (washed for 4 days) then in the ageing box.
the rind firmed up, Geo has become dominate and just rubbing it down, for a few more days then I will vacumme bag it, then keep it at 55 deg,
well as close as I can keep it there.
I'm happy with the way it is ageing so we will continue on :-X
-
Nice!! ;D
-
It's looking good! Is there a reason you're planning to vacuum-bag it rather than leave it to develop a natural rind?
-
Geodyne, that has crossed my mind, (the wife asked me the same thing) so it won't get bagged until it starts to get in the way ;)
-
;)
I'll watch with interest, then.
-
Had to bag this one up and move it to the cave my Stilton needs the higher R/H and does not play well with the other cheese ::)
-
That's a great looking cheddar H-K-J! Keep an eye on it in the bag, if it looks like any moisture is still coming out, de-bag, dry, and try again. That's such a nice rind, it would be a shame to lose it to dampness.
- Jeff
-
my thought is just that Jeff
I check it as often a my Stiltons, I am onto that moisture in the bag,
the rind does look good, I hated bagging it, with the limited space I have for controlled ageing, Stilton first :)
-
Gorgeous wheel!
How long will it be aging?
-Boofer-
-
Hi Boofer, when I made this my thought was age till Christmas, now as an after thought there will be some Caerphilly cheese made for the holidays,
this one, being an experiment, will be aged as long as I can stand it (would like to see at least 6 month's).
If this one turns out good enough that we want to repeat the make I will then age one much longer.
patients has never been one of my strong points, although the longer I make cheese the more I have, at least for making cheese ;)
-
yes that is a beauty! And your press is impressive! ;) Very nice work HJK!
-
Inquiring minds want to know - did this experiment make it out for Christmas snacking? How did the bagged aging go?
-
Well we have decided to let it stay in ageing mode till ?? maybe March or April or February ;)
-
Well it's nearly April... been tempted to open it yet H-K-J? :)
Cheers, GD.
-
Hi GD,
the first of February it looked like there was moisture in the bag so we opened it to see, it was butter fat.
aired it for 2 or 3 days and re-bagged it,
we are now at 6 months old and counting and the wife has threatened to cut it, me, i can make another Caerphilly ;D
-
H-K-J Nice wheel, I am curious as to the flavor of this cheese with such a mixture of cultures. Keep us updated. Thanks for sharing.
-
great looking colour on that good luck on ageing it, can never age mine for that long; just not patient enough.
-
SOON the Wife say's SOON!!! :D
-
In my experience, that is either a very very good thing, or a very very bad thing to hear! :)
- Jeff
-
... we are now at 6 months old and counting and the wife has threatened to cut it, me, i can make another Caerphilly ;D
You must have the patience of Job and incredible self control :)
A Cheese to you for such strong willpower and a lovely cheese.
Cheers, GD.
-
In my experience, that is either a very very good thing, or a very very bad thing to hear! :)
- Jeff
It's all good Jeff, either it gets older or it gets ate ^-^
You must have the patience of Job and incredible self control :)
A Cheese to you for such strong willpower and a lovely cheese.
Cheers, GD.
Thanks for the cheese GD ;D, as far as Patience, None, ask my wife ::)
-
Can you say NOM,NOM,NOM,NOM,NOM,NOM!!!! :P
this is sooo good, the wife just raved about it.
we were just going to take a small wedge piece, that went out the window ( the thought not the cheese ;))
cut a larger wedge for eatin and the small one will be in the smoker with some Stilton, and 2 different Caerphilly cheese sometime today.
re-vacuum bagged the rest and put that back in the cave, I don't expect this one to be around very long (and don't think it will be shared >:D)
This has an excellent cheddar bite, very creamy, salt is right on with a very slight acidic finish ^-^
Not an experiment any longer, this will be made as often as our Stiltons.
using the 3 different cultures definitely had no ill-effects on the outcome of this make
the next one I hope to age out for a year so I had better get started on the next 2 or 3 ;D
again NOM,NOM,NOM,NOM,NOM,NOM!!!!
-
Oh wow! Very nice H-K-J! So you used :
5/16 tsp. MM 100
5/16 tsp. Aroma B
1/8 tsp. TA-61
For 5 gal. batch
Thats a crazy experimental mix! I'm assuming the Aroma B adds a buttery almost nutty flavour to the cheddar? I read a few studies online that cheese manufacturers are now commonly using an adjunct thermo blend for a standout flavour in the final product (the reason for the popularity of MA4001). You took this one step further by adding Aroma B.
Well done, sir!Well done!
I'll certainly make my next cheddar with your blend.
A cheese for you!
-
So, do you like it? :)
Sounds like an outstanding success! A cheese to you. There are a lot of cheddar types to play with as well, which give you room for more experimentation. Along with Caerphilly, I've had good results with Wensleydale and Dunlop. Fied's Cheshire is good too. Lancashire is a nice quick one (peaks in 2-3 months). There's a few Derby makes out there which have good reviews as well. All good stuff. And yes, aging a cheddar out beyond a year is worth it if you can stand it.
- Jeff
-
Thanks for the cheeses guys ^-^
Oh wow! Very nice H-K-J! So you used :
5/16 tsp. MM 100
5/16 tsp. Aroma B
1/8 tsp. TA-61
For 5 gal. batch
Yep that's what my make notes tell me Spoons.
Hey Jeff
I have been checking out other cheddar type cheese but wanted to see how well this one turned out before forging on to another, soon, very soon :)
-
Congratulations H-K-J. A cheese for your excellent cheese and your understated report :)
Must add this one to my list of "Cheeses To Try".
Cheers, GD.
-
A CHEEZ LEWEEZ !
Great looking cheese , is Aroma B similar to Flora Danica ?
I just got my first batch of Aroma b and have not tried it yet , I use F.D. in almost everything.
-
Thanks for the cheese JW
is Aroma B similar to Flora Danica ?
I just got my first batch of Aroma b and have not tried it yet , I use F.D. in almost everything.
If you read the list of cultures on each one they are the same, I have read that they are in slightly different proportions in one or the other.