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GENERAL BOARDS => Other Artisan Crafts => Topic started by: iratherfly on January 04, 2010, 07:09:28 AM
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A few days ago I made two French saucissions (based on an old Jacques Pepin recipe which I have modified over time). Yes, the word 'sauccision' really just means 'sausage', but this is farmer-style; made of whole pork tenderloins rather than ground meat. (You can use beef if you cannot eat Pork. In fact, I plan on making the next batch out of Bison, Mutton or Venison).
Once ready, these will be carved in diagonal paper-thin slices and end up with the flavor, texture and look of Prosciutto Cotto, only these are much much leaner in fat and take 1/10th the time to make...
I came across some excellent quality local NY organic pork and figured 'why not?' I always seem to have more demand than supply for this delicacy amongst friends who order it months in advance. Besides, what a great way to use my new wine/cheese cooler!
Here are some photos.
1. In a bag with curing salt and brown sugar
2. Next day, much smaller once the curing salt did its job and extracted most of the water/blood out of the loins. It is now washed off with brandy and spiced
3. Spicing the first Saucission with Pimenton (sweet Spanish Paprika)
4. Spicing the second one with Pepper and Herbs de Provance
5. Tying cheese cloth with twine
6. Hanging in the cheese/wine/meat cooler to dry-cure and age
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OK, I wasn't going to make you wait to see what the finished product look like. Here is a photo from my previous batch so you can get the idea. (hmmm, I wish I had a proper meat slicer for consistency and to make this even thinner!)
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Hi irathefly,
Look great! I'll let you use my slicer in exchange or a few slices :D
How long do you age for? Do you go by time or weight?
Are you able to keep the humidity where you want in your wine cooler?
Thanks,
Deb
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Thank you for your kind offer ;) I think that as long as I live in Manhattan, if I get a meat slicer it should be paying its own rent... Space is of premium here!
The central heating dries the living daylights out of my apartment, and this affects the wine cooler too. Technically, if salted properly and kept between 50F to 60F it should be ready to eat in 5-6 weeks (so to answer your question; by time). It should feel somewhat firm (but not dried to a crunch).
Unfortunately however the rapid drying from my out-of-control central apartment heating puts it in this condition within 2 weeks, so I wrap it with damp cloth or put a water container in the wine cooler. As with cheese, you don't want it to age too quickly because you need the nitrates to produce nitrites and work their way into the meat's cellular structure in the form of nitrate oxide gas and reverse osmosis effect that replaces the blood with the tasty and sterilizing brine. This protects the meat from bacteria and botulism (spelling?) and from bitter flavors while maturing the desired flavors.
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Thanks for the info. I may have to try that in the future. Dry-curing is on the future list.
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Hit me up anytime for the recipe
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Those look great! If you like working with tenderloins you should try Lomo Embuchado. I created a reicpe a while back trying to copy a flavor from a resteraunt I visited and it came out really well. Once complete it has a slight resemblance texturally to proschuitto and only take like 3 weeks to make.
(http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/Q-View/LomoDone.jpg)
http://deejaysworld.net/deejayssmokepit/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1236046961 (http://deejaysworld.net/deejayssmokepit/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1236046961)
I have an el cheapo slicer and have to keep the meat almost frozen to get fairly thin slices. and takes an hour to clean. MOre often than not I'll fuss and do it by hand.
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Wow wow wow Debi!
Looks amazing! Looks like we both used Pimenton as a spice. My process though was far less fussy though... shake and bake in salt and sugar (I don't need the Prague powder because I use a curing salt), wait, wash the salt off, pat dry, spice, tie in cloth and wait. If it's too salty, I would soak iin filtered water at that point and re-dry it.
What's the purpose of the Ethorbate and Dextrose?
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Wow Debi, that looks awesome too. The dry curing might start earlier than I had planned ;) I'll have to order some cure #2 & ethorbate, I need to order some sausage stuff anyways.
iratherfly - I'm curious - what do you use for a curing salt if not cure #2? Actually, I'd love your recipe too if you are willing to post. Thanks
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It is not my area but I would like to share with you this traditional Turkish Bastirma/Bastourami recipe. Bastirma means "pressed" and old Turkish soldiers were carrying this under the saddle during the long rides to the battlefield and consume it when they need to. So it is pressed there and the name comes from this.
1Kg piece of lean calf meat is salted/covered with rock salt and pressed for 3 days to get the water out.
At the end of 3 days, meat is cleaned/washed salt free, dried a little, a string is attached for hanging and covered with this special curing paste. Curing paste called "chemen" prepared with grounded fenugreek seeds, salt, garlic and hot or mild paprika and applied to meat about 1/2 cm thick. After this the meat hanged to a place to dry more.
In Turkey, it is done at the end of autumn and mild sun of autumn is used to dry the meat further for about 3 weeks and stored in a dark, dry cabinet.
As I said, I have never done this but looking at DeejayDebi's pictures, I gues it is similar to her's. Good Job Debi.
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Detrose is basically a fine corn sugar. Sometimes called glucose. It not as sweet as cane sugar and desloves very easily. We use in in making beer a lot too to make CO2. It almost looks like confectionary sugar but only about 1/3 as sweet.
Sodium erythorbate is also made from cane, corn or beet sugars but is used as a flavor stabilize, and it reduces the rate at which nitrates reduced to nitric oxide,and helps to give meat that pink without dyes.
That does sound close Gurkan. I have just in the past few years started using fenugreek in my sausage arsenal. I love to experiment with spices!
Curing salt is prague powder. Although I have seen some things advertized as curing salt that was basically just kosher salt. Gotta watch the labels!
I hear you about space Deb my house is only 28 x 30 and I have way to many hobbies! I do have a partcial attic and basement (albeit wet) though.
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GurkanYeniceri - sounds great. I love balkan style cured meats. Do you think this is something I could get by name at a Turkish specialty store? There are several of them here.
Debi - thanks! I thought curing salt is a mix of Prague powder with lots of Kosher salt.
As for the Dextrose and Sodium Erythorbate; Can't I just use good old trusty brown sugar? It seems to stabilize the nitrus oxide release. Also the nitrates from the curing salt already pinks out the meat quite well. (...won't happen with just any Kosher salt). I am trying to keep my home made stuff as whole-food as possible and avoid processed corn/soy bi-products whenever possible.
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Iratherfly, yes, definetly. Try also our "Sucuk" on pizza. Bastirma written like "Pastırma" in Turkish. If you can't pronounce, write it down and hand it to them. ;D
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Yea, I can handle pronunciation; grew up 700 miles down the coast from Turkey, in what used to be the Ottoman empire a few decades ago... Do you live in Turkey or in Australia?
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I live in Australia since 2002. It is hard to find sucuk and pastırma here in the capital. We have to travel to Sydney for those.
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Deb-
Your on the right track sort of ...
Prague powder #1 is a mixture of 1 part sodium nitrite and 16 parts salt. You normally use 1 level teaspoon of cure for 5 lb. of meat. Used at any time meat is not immediately put into freezer or refrigerator, such as smoking, air-drying, dehumidifying, etc. This is similar to and sometimes called Curing Salt.
Prague powder #2 is a mixture of 1 part sodium nitrite, .64 parts sodium nitrate and 16 parts salt. You normally use 1 level teaspoon of cure for 5 lb. of meat. mainly used for products that will be air cured for long time like: Country Ham, salami, pepperoni, and other dry sausages.
http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/CuringAgents.htm (http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/CuringAgents.htm)
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Fantissimo!! You don't know how long and how hard I've looked for that exact information.
Cheers :)
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I have a little chart comparing the different cure mixtures. I don't know if it is different in other countries or not. I know there are some difference in the way my Canadian members get their cure mixtures but if I remember right they added .... drawing a blank sorry ... but it's to keep it from sticking together and maybe baking soda or baking powder? I forget which.
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Whoa DeejayDebi!
...Jacques Pepin's Saucisson recipe calls for 1/2 cup salt for 2lbs meat. It makes the tenderloin done, done, done and done like a jerkey within about 7-10 days at average room temperature. I always wondered how on earth did he come up with a recipe that calls for 6 weeks of curing with his crazy amount of curing salt. When I began making these I often would have to soak them overnight in filtered water to desalt and soften them (Like one would do with salted Cod).
In my own version I reduced it to 1/4 cup curing salt (I use the Morton TenderQuick brand) and doubled the brown sugar. This turned the thing ready in about 3 weeks, which still seems slow but I think safe (considering the short time I cure Panchettas and you cure your Lomo). I still have to constantly moist the meat (Wet towels, though your idea of spraying water sounds better).
So are you saying I only need less than 1/2 Teaspoon curing salt for each 2 Lbs pair of tenderloins? I can't even imagine how to sprinkle such small amount on these loins.
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If you are using Tender Quick it's different!
Morton's Tender Quick is a mixture of salt, sodium nitrite, sodium nitrate and sugar. Exact proportions could not be obtained. You normally use 1 level tablespoon of their cure for 1 lb. of meat.
Personally I think Tender Quick is very expensive to use. I calculated it all out one day and I think i came out that it would take like 15 bags of Tender Quick to cure the same amount of meat as a 1 pound bag of prague powder #1. Tender quick is mostly salt. Prague powder #1 requires less than 1/4 teaspoon per pound of meat. It is also easier to use because you don't have to try and figure out how to compensate for the extra salt in recipes.
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Oh ok! I almost got a heart attack thinking I am about to die of a nitrite poisoning :)
Tender Quick costs $4.49 for a 2Lbs. bag - at this cost and the amount of curing that I do it is negligible. (2Lbs is about 60 tablespoons so 60Lbs of meat cured for the cost of less than $5 is okay if you are not a commercial venture that worries about overhead).
And do you suppose all is safe if it feels ready in as little as 3 weeks?
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Yes if it looks ready it probably is. I also prefer wet brines to dry curing most of the time. Sometimes a surface cure doesn't completely penetrate the meat which can be frustrating. I often do 20 to 50 pounds of meat at a time especially when doing hams and such - but compensating for the salt in sausages and that sort of thing is maddening with Tender Quick. If you are such curing solid meats it not to bad.
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I have tried recipes that use both MTQ and Prague Powder #1 for Canadian Bacon & Belly Bacon and found that I like the recipes that use Prague Powder #1 better. The end product seems to be less salty than recipes that are done with MTQ. (I am using the cure in their respective recipes, not interchanging). Like Debi, I also like the wet brine better.
I don't think it's been mentioned but Prague Powder #1 has several names (all the same % of sodium nitrite and salt) -- Pink Salt (not the himaylan pink salt but in reference to the fact it's tinted pink so it's not mistaken for regular salt), Cure #1, Instacure #1 and a few others.
This discussion reminds me that I have two hams that need to come out of the brine tonight, to be smoked tomorrow :D :)
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This discussion reminds me that I have two hams that need to come out of the brine tonight, to be smoked tomorrow :D :)
Go get em gal!
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The thing is, I do like the meats that are dry-cured better - duck prosciutto, game tenderloins, etc. Perhaps I should try a proper Prague #2 next time. Sounds like it has much better control over salt.
One good ting I found about the TenderQuick over-salting is that I can cut the meat and use only a desired portion by leaving it in cool filtered water overnight. The remaining meat are kept, crusted by salt. I can come back to them 9 months later and consume these parts in a similar fashion. True preservation.
Deb, is Canadian bacon the same as what the Canadians call Peamill Beacon? do you use cornmeal or Maple with it?
Debi - 50Lbs??? Does it rain cows and swines over there? Where do you do all of that? Amazing!
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Iratherfly,
I have not done peamill but I believe basically the same thing only rolled in cornmeal.
Here (http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?t=311\) is the recipe that I started out with (uses tenderquick) I have used the brown sugar and also changed out the brown for maple sugar. I have also added a little maple syrup towards the end of the curing process
Now I use the recipe from Charcuterie (Ruhmlan & Polcyn) which is a brine. It calls for "sugar" , I usually use brown or maple sugar
I'll address Debi's question too :) I have never done 50 but the two hams I have going i the smoker today would be 20 lbs(total) if I hadn't boned them. I would have done double but was time restricted in starting them.
Deb
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The thing is, I do like the meats that are dry-cured better - duck prosciutto, game tenderloins, etc. Perhaps I should try a proper Prague #2 next time. Sounds like it has much better control over salt.
Definately better control of the ingredients!
One good ting I found about the TenderQuick over-salting is that I can cut the meat and use only a desired portion by leaving it in cool filtered water overnight. The remaining meat are kept, crusted by salt. I can come back to them 9 months later and consume these parts in a similar fashion. True preservation.
That is one thing you can count on. Getting rid of the over salty flavor is tough. Sometimes you can get rid of some of it through soaking in plain water but not all and sometimes it takes with it more of the natural juices from the meat.
Deb, is Canadian bacon the same as what the Canadians call Peamill Beacon? do you use cornmeal or Maple with it?
Debi - 50Lbs??? Does it rain cows and swines over there? Where do you do all of that? Amazing!
What we in the US call "Canadian Bacon" is not the same as what Canadians call "Peameal Bacon". I used to think it was just a rolling of the meat in corn meal BUT I recently had it explained to me on my forum by a very good Canadian cook.
Canadian Bacon is brined pork loin. I could be smoked and usually is. Store bought is usually not smoked but has that liquid smoke added to the brine water.
Peameal Bacon or Back Bacon is brined pork loin rolled in cornmeal but is NEVER smoked and never has liquid smoke added to it.
50 pounds is a pretty average smoke for me. I love to have my smokers full when I smoke. I have had all three of my smokers going at once and had close to 300 pounds of meat going at a time but that rarely happens. I often smoke to make lunch for the folks at work and will serve 40 to 80 people in 1 hour by myself.[color]
Deb -
Keep in mind sugar can come from of form sugar you choose, white brown, honey, corn sugar, molases, maple syrup, dextrose, fruit juice, pinapples anything that is sweet. The sugar is not so much for the sweetness as it is to counteract the bitter flavors that you can get with salting.
This is a typical smoke for me in my Smoke Vault:
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Debi and Deb, thanks for all this useful info!
This smoker is huge! How many people are you cooking for?
In my last batch I did an A/B test; two identical loins with identical process, only on one of them I washed the salt after the first 12 hours with cool water before spicing; on the other I just wiped it off which left a lot of it in.
Last night I decided to cut them for a dinner party I was attending tonight. Side by side, the washed salt one was less dry and cured. Less salty obviously but not but much to my surprise. Instead of soaking, i cut paper-thin Prosciutto like lengthwise slices of it and gave them a 3-5 second brisk dip in cold water, wiped the surface, than vacuum packed them. They came out very nice (and slightly thicker) but you are right in that the water takes out much of the flavor; not just the salt.
On my next attempt I will do only a tablespoon of salt per Lb and wipe off the salt rather than wash it. If I ever need to desalt them in water again I will use flavored wash such as brandy with herbs-de-provance rather than plain filtered water. Will post photos shortly
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That is one issue I have with dry salting. Wet brining doesn't loose flavor with rinsing all has equalized in the brine. Did you dip them to rinse the salt off or some other reason? I would rinse it uncut dry it then slice you will only have to worry about the crusty salt on the outside.
My Smoke Vault is really not that big it's like 24.5x17x31 but I can really pack it in there. I think that day I was smoking for about 60 people but I try to fill the smoker when I do smoke. It freezes well and I often get requests to bring my goodies with me when I go somewhere.
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I'd love to get the recipe for this. My husband has been in sausage making mode and this sounds like something great for him to try! THanks!
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DeejayDebi's recipe or mine?
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Thought I might post this info after reading all the posts in this thread. For brine curing I like to use a solution of 3% salt, that would include the weight of the protein and the weight of the water. To calculate lets say you were going to brine cure 5lbs of loin for instance. Put the loins into your container (five gallon bucket) and add water to cover by three inches, you will need aprox 3 gals of water. Water weighs 8.33lbs so 3 gals weighs about 25lbs so you now have this 25lbs plus the 5lbs of loin that contains aprox 3 lbs of water so in all reality you have 28lbs water. Multiply the 28lbs of water by the .03% salt you want and you end up with .84lbs of salt or 13.5oz. You can offset the salt content by equal amounts of sweetner or less using the same formula as above.
Now if we are going to calculate the amount of nitrite we would look at a sample that would look like this. Guidelines suggest 200PPM for immersion cured meats and we know that we have a total brine weight of 25lbs plus the combined weight of the salt and sugars to be a total of 26.68lbs plus the weight of the protein so you have the total of 31.68lbs. So if you multiply 200ppm x 31.68 over 1,000,000 you will end up with .oo6 pure nitrate.
We do know from the lable that the blend contains 6.25% nitrite and we know we need .006 pure nitrite we have a situation like this .006/.0625=.096lbs curing mix. Because that is such a small amount we convert to grams. 16oz in a lb and 28g in an oz so the formula goes like this .096x16x28g=43g curing mix
Pretty simple stuff eh. It sounds complicated but it really isn't and once you get use to it you know for sure you have the exact amounts of salt and cure in your brine
Hope this helps some. BTW there is another great book out there by Paul Bertolli called Cooking by Hand, lot of great info
Reg
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Sounds like a winner Reg
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Actually Debi, (and reg and everyone else on this thread) I've been meaning to ask you a couple of questions about this:
I tried the formula of 1tbs Morton TenderQuick + 1tbs brown sugar per 1 lb. meat in dry curing for 24 hours, then washing it off and spicing the meat with pepper, pimenton and Sherry (should I have added more salt because I washed off the cure?) I wrapped it with cheesecloth and tightened with a thread. I then hung in the cheese cave for 3-6 weeks.
My "saucisson" ended up dry at the ends and way too moist/soft in the center. The dry ends were eatable but they seemed not as salty as I have expected and I could feel the sugar too much. Most of the sausage was covered with some white mold (uneven density) and I found blue-ish green mold in the moist creases of the meat. It smelled very yeasty-sweet. I was too afraid to eat it beyond the dry, un-moldy edges :(
I realize some of this mold came from cheese that was in the cave (yeast and geo, but not the blue thing, there was nothing blue in that cave for months) but I really don't know how to measure its safety.
Should I just double the salt? Maybe keep the salt as is but don't wash it off after the 24 hours and just blot it with paper towel? Maybe the sugar messed it up? I also know from cheese that aging anything in cheesecloth would rind it with bacteria. I personally hate cheese cloth (it sticks to the meat and leaves lint when you try taking it off a few weeks later) and would prever some natural rind or casing.
What do you think about actually spraying some cheese geo/yeast/pc onto the meat to coat it with intentional bacteria so that it prevents competing bacteria from growing? I know that some sausages are coated with geo or PC. I also assume that it can give it some interesting characteristics in flavor/aroma as well as controlled accelerated breakdown of protein/fat (Proteolysis/lipolysis). I know this is a totally different style of dry sausage; I am just trying to get to a consistently good one. Right now I seem to have 50% success and 50% throwaway batches from reasons I cannot understand.
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I generally wrap loins in a large casing to prevent cross contamination from the cheeses. Luckily for me I close off a room in the winter and just hang it all in there then I don't really have to worry.
I don't use tender quick. If I am reading this right sound like you had green mold in the crevases. That happens sometimes and I just cut it off. The white mold (similar to geo) on the surface of the sausages can sometimes be a blessing - it helps ferment the sausage like a dry aged pepperoni (my favorite). I hesitate to offer any advice without a full desclosure of the make as a simple change to have devastating effects.
My first thought is that for a dry aged meat 24 hours is not much time for the salt to extract the internal fluids. You might also try adding a presssing weight of some sort durig that time to help squeze out the fliuds.
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Hmmm... they did come out rather dry in previous batches that just used more salt. In fact I got them quite dry in as little as 12 hours!
What kind of casing do you use? Does it give it enough air like a cheesecloth? Is there a way to develop rind like with cheese brining?
I have had mold that was red white and blue. I thought of making a flag out of it. I think the red was just white mold that was affected by the strong pimenton (Spanish sweet paprika) color. What scared me though was the smell of yeast and the fact that after weeks of hanging the center was still so soft.
So you are suggesting to cure this away from the cheese then? and you aren't sure if cheese cultures can work on it? This is fascinating stuff
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iratherfly. Likely you did not let the product cure enough, can't see that 24hrs would be nearly enough time to cure through to the center. As for salt content we always go by weight of the protein then decide the weight of the salt needed. 5lbs of product will need about 4 oz of salt to do the job correctly
As far as casings go for pork tenderloins you could get away using hog middles, they are about 2" in diameter and I do recommend a casing. The easiest way to stuff is to get a plastic tube about that size then put the casing over the tube, tie the one end then push the protein tightly into the casing then tie off the end. Also make sure you pick all the air holes with a pin.
In the proper enviroment (55* with about 70% humidity) I would say it should take aprox 30 days to cure. If you weigh the sausage and tag it will be ready for consumption after it has lost 35% of the original weight. You don't want a rind to develop on your sausage, that will create case hardening similar to what you just went through, hard exterior with a soft interior that may start to spoil
Yes cure away from your cheeses. If you want to purchase the proper mold culture Butcher and Packer has a product called RM600, pretty sure that is the right number but you can check on their website
Reg
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Thanks for the great tips Reg!
These tenderloins were rather thin, maybe the shape of a 1"-1.5" diameter log, maybe 13" long. By the time 24 hours past, the brining bag was filled up with blood and the loins were slim and stiff and rather dry from the osmosis. It seemed to me that they were quite cured. I used the same method before on tenderloins and they came out really dry and salty after 12 hours only - I just used more salt then. That's what I got with the original Jacques Pepin recipe and I needed to fix that. Debi had suggested that I follow the prescribed measurement on the Morton TenderQuick package: 1tb salt per 1lb meat. I weighed the meat and added quantities accordingly. Worth mentioning that this is dry curing. Also, I am using TenderQuick and not Prague powder. I am trying to understand why this worked in previous times and not now. My assumptions are that:
1. maybe I shouldn't have washed it after curing? or that if I washed the cure off the surface, I should have at least put some salt on it with the spices?
2. I added too much sugar and it reduced acidity to the point where it was hospitable to pathogens, instead of working like a preserver.
What do you think?
As for casing - I am not sure how they work. I am trying to dry the meat. Will a casing that can trap air bubbles facilitate drying the meat? I like the speed of drying with proper salting and cheese cloth, I just don't like the pathogens/mold that cheesecloth bring and the lint it leaves behind. What about putting a net for a good firm shape and not using casing at all? Maybe coating with some oil to prevent it from drying too quickly?
My temp and humidity seems right. I got you loud and clear about not doing this with the cheese though. I will look into the RM600.
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OK lets look at this with clear minds. We are going to cure using our mix whether it be TQ or PP#2 with the proper amount of salt. We apply our curing mix to the tenderloins, bag and refrigerate until the tenders are firm ALL the way through. I have never cured tenders only loins but they must have a firm feel all the way through. We take the tenders out of the bag and rinse under cool water just a bit then we pat dry. NO additional salt is required, the product has already taken up the amount needed to finish the drying process. We now put our finish spice mixture on the tenders (no salt) and we are going to pack them into our casing using the process I had mentioned in a previous post. When I say to stuff them I mean to push them in and make a cylinder that is all the same diameter that way they will dry evenly. If you have to twist them a few times to make the cylinder then that is what we need to do, nice and even all the way. The 13" tender that you started with will be about 9" long at this point. Any air holes you see should be pricked with a pin otherwise you are leaving a void where bacteria and molds could begin to form, not what we want
I have found over the years that natural casings are the best way to go. They only allow so much moisture to escape at a time allowing the tenders to cure evenly without case hardening. This is the one most critical stage when dry curing either whole muscle cuts or ground product. The density of the meat has to always be the same constant inside and out. Fi you find that you don't have enough moisture in the cabinet spray clean water on the walls and that will do the job for you. After they have lost 35% of their original weight they are ready to eat or they can be vac packed and frozen until needed. This way your drying area is free for other use. To remove the casing just run warm tap water over the sausage and peel away the casing, done deal. Easy eh
Experience is what we need to become good at it, just like cheese making
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Thanks for clearing this up for me! I think you have answered all of my questions since I began making this. I just need to figure out how much salt and sugar per lb is right and how firm is firm. I think it reaches the mazimum in 24 hours. Will it be overly salty if I do longer?
Your post looks a lot like the tips I give people about cheesemaking. Way more confidence there... Thank you!!!
Now I will go look for casings! The whole project sounds easy!
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Keep in mind Tender quick is mostly salt. Sounds like you are using those tiny little tenderloin about the diameter of a silver dollar that come in a cryopac in a 10% brine solution. I'm think around here someone like Hormel or some other big company makes them.
I use the big whole loins about 3 feet long about 4 to 5 inches in diameter. If you can't find casings locally there a nice young couple in NH I buy a lot of supplies from:
http://www.sausagesource.com/catalog/7.html (http://www.sausagesource.com/catalog/7.html)
they usually get here in a few days.
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Oh no Debi, the size is right but these are organic acorn-fed pork from Upstate New York which I get from one of NYC's top butchers. I don't buy that pre-packaged stuff.
Thanks for the links. I spoke to another friend of mine which is a French butcher and he said to me "I can give you casings, but why on earth do you want them? Just hang these in high air-circulation room and eat them in 2-3 weeks; no casings, no cheesecloth. Interesting.
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" Just hang these in high air-circulation room and eat them in 2-3 weeks; no casings, no cheesecloth. Interesting."
iratherfly, I guess the best thing to do would be to try that method and see how it turns out.
DJD, like yourself I use whole loins for my curing projects and one of my favourites is the coppa recipe out of Ruhlmans book but using the whole muscle instead of the pieces called for in the book.
Need to find and learn about a recipe for Black Forest Ham that apparently uses centre cut loin meat that is cured and smoked intermittently over a week or two then hung to dry for 60-90 days. They say this is the true Black Forest Ham and not even close to the semi dry hams we see in the stores. Have you ever heard of that ?
Reg
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Glad to hear you don't get those nasty little tenderloins from the supermarket! As far as open air drying it will work if you have a dedicated clean room area or cave to hang them free from dirt dust etc. for 3 weeks. Just hang them on a hook and watch. They will be much more likely however to pickup bacteria, yeast and molds from you cheeses. If you wrap them this will stay on the casing and not on the sausage. Butchters don't make cheese and don't have the same cross contamination problems we do. That is the difference.
Reg -
I experimented with making Black Forrest ham about a year or two ago. I think I posted it here somewhere. I thought it was on my website or forum but I couldn't find it. Might have been before my computer crashed. I will ty to find it.
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I tried dry curing some beef a few months back. I couldn't bring myself to eat it, it smelled aweful. Our day time temps were about 55 and night time was about 45. I gave it a salt/sugar/spice rub in the fridge for a week before hanging. I won't try it again unless I get a dedicated fridge.
I used to live in the Black Forest and I can attest that real ham, or schinken, is nothing like what they pass for it in the US. It is fantastically wonderful. Back before Sept 11 I took a trip over to visit some friends and brought back a suitcase full of hams, that's how much I love them. The best schinken comes from small farmsteads where they have cheese production. They feed the whey to the pigs and butcher right there on the farm. The breed of pig is different too, they look kind of like wild boar, very scruffy. The ham is heavily smoked, but I'm not sure what their regime is or what wood they use.
The farm I used to buy it from is in the high forest and the farmer said it was essential that the pigs are completely relaxed before slaughter, apparently any adreneline will put the meat off. When that happens it doesn't get used for schinken, but a lesser grade. Only the best loins go for schinken. Just writing this is making me drool.
They also made fresh, raw milk cheeses on the farm. Some where on a disk I have photos of the cheese shop in the bottom of their barn. They had a cheese case filled with fresh cheeses and big slabs of schinken hanging form kooks behind the counter. Come to think of it I can't remeber why in the world I moved away from there....and don't get me started on the beer...
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Francios,
This is EXACTLY the sort of info I want more of. I've been reading & researching the last few months on curing meats (hams, sausages, bacons, etc.) and am raring to try some! And I wondered how it was done in Europe alongside cheese making. Jane Grigson's Charcuterie is the closest I've come to traditional methods.
We are raising our pigs this year with no GMOs (rolled barley & oats), whey and some skim milk, and as many acorns as we can muster. We're not set up to butcher here yet and will be taking them to the local butcher shop. Sadly, they are required by the local health dept to skin them! I hope to butcher on farm traditionally in the future and preserve the meats traditionally as well.
Kristin
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Sorry for taking so long to respond...
I suppose I can hang them in our storage, some 11 stories below. It's quite cool over there but not much circulation. Maybe on the window or something. The problems is that NY apartment heat turns it way too dry. I can turn myself into beacon within 12 hours, let-alone the sausage... I wish there was a way to grow some cheese bacteria on them but I think the acidity level and nutrients are too different and I don't want to contaminate the cheese or the pork.
One thing I don't quite get still is how do the casings allow the meat to dry out without letting bacteria in. Which casing do you prefer? Remember, this is a solid piece of rather lean meat. Not ground like sausage or rolled like a Pancetta.
By the way, I still make those wonderful duck pancetta with a rather good success rate but I am looking for an alternative to cheesecloth here too. It sticks to the fat and leaves lint when you take it off.
Francois, I didn't know that schinken is black forest ham. One of those funny things that happen when you grow up in two countries. Black Forest ham in the US is nothing like the Schinken I get in Europe or Israel. It's lovely.
Speaking of charcuterie, my home made sauerkraut should be ready this weekend. I want to make a classic choucroute out of it and can the rest. Does anyone have a good traditional recipe?
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Francios, you did not mention a curing agent when you tried the beef, did you not use any ?
Have been studying every tidbit of info I can find with regards to the Black Forest/Schinken but have yet to write anything down yet. I'm hoping to gather enough info so I can get a couple of loins going this year.
Reg
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IMHO, Schinken is made from the upper rear leg (ham) of pork, not from loin. It can be made from the same part of the front leg as well.
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I did not use a curing agent. Just salt, sugar and spices. It's impossible, well very difficult, to get where I am. I think I can get equivalents at the feed store for agricultural use but haven't put any effort into it.
I have seen schinken form loin as well as legs. I'm not familiar enough with the technical details to know if one is "correct" or not, or if what you can get in the US is the same schinken as I had in Germany. I think the acorn feeding thing is an Austrian technique, they do very good pork there as well. The Black Forest is 99.9% confierous trees, so not much oak around.
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Francois, most of the cheese culture dealers also sell meat curing culture. I know Danisco makes them under one of their brands as well. I personally order the Morton TenderQuick via their web site and get it in the mail. Easy.
http://www.mortonsalt.com/products/meatcuring/tenderquick.html (http://www.mortonsalt.com/products/meatcuring/tenderquick.html)
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Good idea. I have a sales rep for Danisco who always sends me lots of goodies. I'll ask him for samples next time he's visiting.
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Alex, generally the schinken does come from the rear leg. I have a chef friend from California who's father (that grew up in the Black Forest area) has perfected schinken using the loins but out of respect would never ask for his recipe.
Francois. Might be a good idea to ask the rep if they carry Prauge Powder #1 and #2 also.
You will never get the same outcome without using the curing agents. They add texture and flavours while controlling botulism and other dangerous bacteria, in my opinion they are a must !
Reg
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Reg I think that the reason you see a lot of less expensive schinken made of front legs is because rear legs are far more expensive (high demand for far more expensive products such as Prosciutto, sliced ham, or holiday ham). If it could be done as well without all that expensive hind fat... why not? I find the front leg to be more meaty and lean, but also a bit drier
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I think sodium erythobate and erythobic acid can added into cheese