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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Cooked (Swiss) => Topic started by: DeejayDebi on August 09, 2009, 02:27:04 AM
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Well I have been theatening to do this for years and I am doing it now. What am I doing? Adding pistashios to my cheese. Not just any cheese mind you one of my homebrewed Italian cheeses called - Crosta Rossa now to be called Crosta Rossa Pistacchi! Or would it be Pistacchi e Crosta Rossa? Whatever it is I am known to add pishachios to just about everything from sausage to Jalepino poppers. I love the little buggers and they add a great flavor to things.
For John and Wayne I actually took readings as I went with my pH meter. Rather than doing things according to the pH reading I did things then took the reading. Something I rarely do. Just a PITA to calibrate it everytime I use it.
Hey I am Italian! Stand By - more to come.
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First of all if you are not familiar with Crosta Rossa it is an Italian cheese. In english it translates to Cheese to red crust.
I have not seen this cheese sold anywhere since I was a kid. It was very popular in the Italian section I grew up in but times have changed and the old clan and neighborhood are no more. As far as a know I am the only one around here that still makes it.
Traditionaly is is made in wood molds. It is quite delicious and only requires 30 to 40 days to age so it is an easy quick semi-hard cheese to make.
Okay the cheeses are in the molds. I split the curds into two of the 3 kg molds. I like the size they make. Crosta Rossa is usually made in about 1 kg flat wheels so these will be a little bit bigger.
I used store bought milk for this recipe with calcium cloride. I'll leave it press over night and then dry salt them to release more whey. The salting will be done twice 24 hours apart.
After the salting they will be soaked in fairly sweet red wine (hense the name cheese to red crust). And a Salt brine after that.
The cheese, the wine and the nuts just seens to go together.
Crosta Rossa Pistacchi Cheese - Cheese to red crust
From Tuscany a soft and buttery paste in the winter, but crumbly in the spring. It has a strong taste of milk and aromas
Ingredients:
7 gallons milk
1/2 teasppon Mesophilic Aromatic Type B
1 cup chopped pistachios
3/4 teaspoon Rennet
Salt
Procedure:
heat milk to 86°F
Add a mesophilic culture ripen for 45 minutes.
Add rennet
Cut curd into 1/2 inch pieces and rest 5-10 minutes.
Now cut curd with a whisk into grain like pieces.
While stirring, the temp may be increased to 95-96°F slowly.
Continue stirring taking about 30-45 minutes to firm up curds.
"Drain the whey down to the curd level keeping the whey at 90° for later pressing.
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Prepare molds with warmed cheese cloth dip in the whey.
Fill your molds with cheese and return them to the pot of whey.
"Once all of the molds have been filled, turned them over in the molds rewrap and stack 2 high to help draining and develop a nice smooth surface.
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"After 20-30 minutes flip the formed cheeses nicely and returned to molds.
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While keeping temperature about 90°F place the followers on the molds and place a small weight about2-3 pounds on the molds for about 3-4 hours.
"Remove from the molds and let sit overnight to will allow the pH to fall to 5.2-5.4.
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Next morning they are dry salted with 1.5-2% of their weight.
"Age at 52-58°F and 95-97% humidity in covered boxes for about 60 days.
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Salt out #1
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Brined in Chianti wine ... air drying now.
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Sounds like a great recipe, thanks for sharing! Can the taste be compared to any other more well known italian cheeses?
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It is often compared to Reblochon for some reason although I have never had Reblochon so I don't know. From what I have read Reblochon gets bitter with age where Crosta Rossa just gets crumbly and stronger like an aged parmesan.
Young I'd have to say it is something like a buttery havarti soft and pastey and mild flavored, but with a young parmesan flavor. When it is aged it is stronger and crumblier.
It it used like a side dish on the table with fresh bread and wine and sometimes it is used to flavor things like fish or macaroni. When it is aged it is good to sprinkle on soups. Sorry I am not good at describing cheeses. I like it or I don't.
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Hi Deb
Great looking cheese - I just have to try it!!!
Can you please confirm that I have interpreted your method correctly?
After you have dry salted it twice (24 hours apart) it is soaked in red wine (how long does it remain in the wine?) and then brined in a salt solution (what strength? how long?). Are the pistachios added just prior to hooping?
Thanks in advance
B
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Procedure:
Heat milk to 86°F.
Add a few drops of diluted annatto (you are looking for off white)
Add a mesophilic culture ripen for 45 minutes.
Add rennet
Cut curd into 1/2 inch pieces and rest 5-10 minutes.
Now cut curd with a whisk into rice sized pieces.
Raise the temperature slowly to 95-96°F stirring gently.
Continue stirring for about 30-45 minutes to firm up curds.
Maintain 90°F and drain the whey down to the curd level but retain the whey.
Warm your cheese cloth in the whey and line your molds.
If you choose to add pistachios mix them with the curds a this point.
As you fill your molds with cheese, return them to the pot of whey.
Once all of the molds have been filled, flip them over, rewrap and stack them.
This will help them drain and get a smooth rind.
After 20-30 minutes flip the cheeses rewrap and press with a light weight.
I will flip and repress the cheese every hour until bedtime.
Leave cheeses in the mold and let sit over night.
Next morning remove from the molds and pat dry with paper towels.
Sprinkle kosher salt all over a plate big enough to hold the cheese.
Roll the cheese on the salt to get it on the sides and rub it on gently.
Flip the cheese to salt both sides and let it rest for 24 hours.
This will extract more whey and add salt to the cheese.
Repeat this step again twice more for 24 hours each time.
NOTE: you could just do a heavy brine solution and wet brine the cheeses.
Wash the cheeses with a mixture of salt and water to remove the loose salt.
Pour a sweet red wine into a container large enough to hold the cheeses.
Soak cheeses in the wine for 24 hours. Turn the cheeses every few hours.
This is where the name comes from.
Next dry the cheeses and wash them with cheese cloth and salt water brine.
Age at 52-58°F and 95-97% humidity in covered boxes for 45 to 60 days.
Turn the cheeses daily. If mold develops wash with cheesecloth and brine.
Salute’!
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Hopefully this is clearer. But to directly answer your question. Wash off the salt first in a salted water wash or whey from the process mixed with salt ( A teaspoons in a cup of whey or water will do) then dry the cheeses with paper towels.
No salt just wine. This will sit also for about 24 hours. It can sit for up to 2 or 3 days if you want. Wipe the wine off and air dry like normal and start to age. It pretty good as a mild snack or table cheese after a month but will develop a nice strong flavor after about 6 months.
If you dry salt it twice for 24 hours each you don't brine it. If you brine it do a heavy brine of about 2 pounds of salt to 1 gallon of whey or water.
Yes the chopped nuts are added just before hooping. Hope you like it.
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Grazie!
I really appreciate your taking the time to elaborate on the procedure. I don't have any pistachios, but will go into town next week on a mission!! I'll let you know how it goes.
B
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what a great idea to add pistachios to cheese.
debi the cheese looks great. i wish i could taste it. wondering if i use goats milk, will it produce a very different cheese??
i can only do a batch with 4 gallon at a time. how would i adjust the meso and rennet? just cut in half?
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Bella-
Voi Benvenuto! You don't have to use the nuts. I have just always felt they should be there for some reason. I never even heard of it of it made with nuts. I just love to add pistachios to things. I even add them to my cream cheese jalapeno poppers!
Susanne-
I can't really say how different it wold be from goats milk. I have only recently found a source for goats milk. I don't even know if I have ever eatten a goats milk cheese. From what I understand from other ladies with goats you can make almost anything with it you would make from a cows milk.
I believe that when this came originally from Italy they may have used goat or sheep and cows milk together. I don't know for sure though. I may have to research this.
I do know I made it once with Yago Sangria (it was a very popular wine when I was a teenager) and it was a bit sweeter. Very good. It might offset what I have been told is a more bitter cheese from a goat?
Not you have piqued my curiosity! ;D
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the cheese i made with goatsmilk was gouda, not very different in taste just white, gorgonzola ( i call it caprizola ;) ) and is just very good, better then store bought, and camembert, parmesan, raclette and manchego. i have not had bitter tasting cheese yet.
it might depend what the goats are eating and what breed they are? my understanding was it is just the different in curds as goats milk curds are more delicate.
maybe i chould do a cows milk cheese as for comparison.
i made kinda chevre that i brined in red wine but i guess i was not patient enough and aged it not long enough. the wine taste took completely over.
what would you recommend how much rennet and meso if i only use 4 gallon?
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Bella-
Voi Benvenuto! You don't have to use the nuts. I have just always felt they should be there for some reason. I never even heard of it of it made with nuts. I just love to add pistachios to things. I even add them to my cream cheese jalapeno poppers!
Susanne-
I can't really say how different it wold be from goats milk. I have only recently found a source for goats milk. I don't even know if I have ever eatten a goats milk cheese. From what I understand from other ladies with goats you can make almost anything with it you would make from a cows milk.
I believe that when this came originally from Italy they may have used goat or sheep and cows milk together. I don't know for sure though. I may have to research this.
I do know I made it once with Yago Sangria (it was a very popular wine when I was a teenager) and it was a bit sweeter. Very good. It might offset what I have been told is a more bitter cheese from a goat?
Not you have piqued my curiosity! ;D
Isn't this cheese like a spanish Cabre al Vino?
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Susanne -
I think I'd drop the meso down to about 1/4 teaspoon for 4 gallons. I haven't used goats milk but once so I don't really know yet how it tastes. I read somewhere it tends to b more bitter by but from the smell of my crotins it does smell bitter. I will find out soon though I have 6 gallons to pick up today! :D
Alex -
I don't know if this is similar to Cabre al Vino I've never had it. I am finding that the Spanish cheeses are very close to the Italian cheeses though. Maybe because they are geographically close?
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I make a Cabra al Vino. Its a washed curd cheese, the curde are milled into 6mm pieses and blended with salt before pressing. It is bathed in red wine 24hrs, out 6hrs, and back in the wine for another 24hrs.
Christy
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I only soak this once for 24 hours so I guess in some respects it's similar ...
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Hi Debi
I have my first Crosta Rossa Pistacchi in the press as of an hour ago. It even smelt good at this stage - I can't wait for the end-result!!
B
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I love it and like most cheeses it get better with age.
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Debi, you say:
Young I'd have to say it is something like a buttery havarti soft and pastey and mild flavored, but with a young parmesan flavor. When it is aged it is stronger and crumblier.
I'd love to eat both young and aged, so maybe I'll try this one. But when you say young or aged, how long time do you refer to? Is 60 days still young?
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Debi - I just found this thread and I love the look of your cheeses.
This is a question for you and anyone else adding nuts, seeds, spices, herbs, etc. to the curds:
How high is the risk for infection/spoilage from adding these things? I would always be concerned I'm introducing some outside influence into my pristeen cheese curds, just asking for trouble. Should that really be a concern of mine? ???
-Boofer-
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Most dry items are OK. Just handle as little as possible. Use a spoon, not your hands. The "good" bacteria will out compete the bad. Higher moisture items MIGHT be problematic. That give contaminants, especially spores, more of a place to hide and gain a foothold. However, many of us add dried fruit, etc which has some moisture.
I did a Blueberry Emmental about 45 days ago that I won't open until Thanksgiving. Have no idea how that's going to turn out, but it looks really cool.
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Sailor - I saw the thread on your blueberry emmental. That should be interesting. The closest I've seen to that is a blueberry or apricot Stilton. Thanks for the detail on added goodies.
-Boofer-
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I have added nuts without problem. Everything used to chop, scoop etc. are sterilized and I would hope the nuts are clean too. I have used nuts in other cheeses without a problem.
I agree that you should try to use dried additions. Fresh veggies just don't work well. I don't know about the blueberries that I have never tried but I do have dehydrated ones I have decided what to try on yet.
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Hi Debi
Since making the first of these cheeses, I have of course, told a heap of people about it. They all want a taste when it is ready to eat!!!!! There have been so many, that I made a second one – it went into the wine 5 minutes ago. The first one looks fabulous.
I live in a rural area, and obtaining Italian wine is a bit difficult, and the best I could do in a 30km radius was Lambrusco, so I hope it goes well.
B
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I soaked one years ago in this cheapo stuck called Yago Sangria - it's sweet but made a good taste for the cheese. If you like the wine it will be good.
I have not opened mine yet. I think I will open one at 6 month and one at a year. I do split batches. One goes to work for the guys and one goes to the family.
Hope you like it. It's one of my favorites I know the nuts will be good.
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Hi Debi
I couldn't wait any longer, and so have cut my first Crosta Rossa Pistacchi. Wow!! What a cheese, and it's certainly one that will be a regular around here, that's for sure. It was a tad disconcerting in the last few weeks when the grey mould covered all that beautiful wine-coloured coating, but it made for a point of interest when taken back with vinegar for the rind was a lovely shade of black-grey and looked good against the colour of the paste.
Many thanks for passing this one on - it's really, really nice. But I don't know how you can manage to hang on for 6 months, let along 12!!! I have a second one in the wine fridge, but I doubt that it is going to be there very long!
I'll post some pics of the cheese at various stages
B
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And here's the last photo of the final product
B
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WOW that looks awsome! I don't usually lt the mold take hold but it will give it a great flavor. This is one of the cheeses my grandmother made that she brought here from the old country as she called it - Italy. Of course she didn't add the pistashios but the cheese is hers and apparently was her mothers too.
Glad you like it. I thin it is a pretty simple cheese with wonderfully complex flavors. The older it gets the more complex the flavor. Salute'!
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Bella - So how does it taste? Seems like if the mold took hold you would end up with a mustiness which might overpower the delicateness of the pistachios.
-Boofer-
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I am very sensitive to mold it makes me sneeze and itch so I do my darnedest to keep it away. I can alway tell if any mold got on my cheeses no mater how well I wash them.
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That is one impressive looking cheese Bella. I too am interested in what you thought of the final flavour?
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Hi Boofer and Tea
My apologies for not answering you question about flavour before this. Earlier in the week, and a day or so after sampling the cheese, I wrapped up the remains to give to friends who will be visiting this weekend. I figured there is another cheese there for me to enjoy at a later date. But I have to say that I really liked it.
Now I’m the world’s worst at describing flavours, and for the life of me I would be unable to give you a good answer without having the cheese in front of me. I’ll convince one of my weekend guests to open the package and between all of us we can come up with a good answer.
But from this distance, it had a buttery flavour, semi-hard rather crumbly texture, and the pistachios were not really the dominance that I expected. After removing the mould, what was left behind was a nice firm rind that had no flavour that I could detect, but it did give the cheese a visual appeal with the black/grey against the greenish tinge of the pate.
I’ll report back after the weekend with something a little more definite. But this is definitely a cheese that I will make regularly.
B
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I think you did a better job describing the cheese than I did. I can not descibe flavors to save my life!
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I look forward to hearing the consensus of your tasting group. Your preliminary flavor description has me intrigued. I just happened to have some red wine and a bunch of pistachios handy. ;)
-Boofer-
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Boofer it's really a great cheese and pretty simple IMHO. ONe thing though make sure you use a good wine. Like cooking crappy wine can spoil the flavor.
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Crappy wine? I wouldn't cook with a wine that I won't drink.
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It amazes me sometimes how people with buy a crappy wine to cook with that they wouldn't drink normally - DUH! It's gonna make crappy food! I know this guy at work that does this all the time and he doesn't want to believe me when I tell him the crappy wine makes the food crappy too. ::)
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Hi again Debi, Boofer and Tea
Here are a few notes from my friends currently visiting….
• pistachios give a hint of texture to an otherwise smooth cheese, a subtle flavour which is quite mild, and a piquant after-taste. It’s appearance suggests a cheese with a stronger flavour
• it is a cheese for those who want something different but are not adventurous enough to take on some of the stronger cheeses
• the wine provides no obvious flavour
I have just finished eating a Tomme au Marc which sits in a small volume of wine for the entirety of its aging. This cheese has a very definite wine flavour which permeates the cheese. I wonder how Crosta Rossa would be after sitting in some of the wine for a couple of months too? It’s probably something worth giving a go! What say you Debi?
B
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Is Chianti the traditional/preferred wine to use? Should the wine lean towards sweet or dry?
I would like to try the recipe and steep my cheese in the wine for several months. Can anyone think of a possible downside to this technique? Would it soften or harden the curd/rind?
I realize I may be straying from true Italian wine, but I'm considering a Merlot.
-Boofer-
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I have read Italian cheese descriptions that say they soak the cheeses for a few weeks at a time. I am not a big wine drinker so how they react to air after some time I can't say. I would think Linux or Wayne could best answer that question.
As far as dry or sweet. I don't know one from the other but I like a wine that tastes good with spaghetti more sweet than bitter. I have used Asti Spumonte and that worked well but doesn't add color. Is that sweet or dry? ??? I just hapened to get a dozen bottles of the stuff one year from guests. It's not to bad so I used it.
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I used Lambrusco this time around because it was the only Italian wine I could get close by my rural area. I have two bottles of chianti for the next batches, but going from this cheese, and because there is no hint of the wine, it would appear that the wine style you use probably wouldn't matter. There appeared no sweetness from the Lambrusco.
I left Tomme au Marc in both red and white wine for two months (different batches of course), but it wasn't a lot of wine (perhaps a cup). Both cheeses were harder than cheeses ripened without the wine (e.g. a normal tomme), with the cheese in red wine harder (but only just) than the one in white wine.
Next Crosta Rossa I do, I think I will steep it in chianti as per Debi's recipe, but I think I will leave it in for the entirety of the 2-month period and see what happens, and perhaps use only a small amount of wine. It is probably important to turn the cheese frequently in the early stages to obtain that lovely red coating.
At worst, I feel that the wine flavour will overpower the subtlety of the pistachios, At best, it could add a complexity to the cheese that isn't there at the momth.
B
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I get a slight hint of wine on mine but that could be because I don't have to scrum the mold off. I wonder if the mold eats the wine? I don't think the month in the wine would hurt as long as the wine won't spoil. I use cianti because I use that in my tuscan salami and it works well. I would think a nice sweet wine would be good.
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Debi - Asti Spumante has always been our bubbly to ring in the New Year. My wife and I have loved it for 27 years. Interesting choice for a cheese marinade. It's a sweet bubbly.
I would think the tannic acid in any red wine would serve to tighten up the rind. I'm sure someone out there could lend a more informed opinion.
I would agree with a slightly sweet (not dry) red wine with character would be a good choice.
-Boofer-
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I like that wine too. I guess that's why everyone gives it to me. One of the few I really like. Asti makes another one I like too but I don't remember what it's called.
There's a wine I used once reccommened by the liquior store lady and it was on sale. Barefoot something. It was pink colored but not a red wine and not really sweet but good.
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I cut one of mine tonight for a potluck lunch tommorow at work. Nice and creamy. Not enough nuts though. I love pistchios. Just a hint of the wine. As you can see I have been washing it silly! :D
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So Debi do you wash your cheese as it is ripening? How often? for how long? the entire ripening period?? I didn't do that, so that is probably why I got the mould!! Duh!
I have my milk warming as I tap here for my next attempt at this cheese!
B
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Bella for the first month while i is open in the cave I wash it about every other day so there is no mold build up. After that I vac pac it and just wait.
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Thanks Debi
One more question - do you use brine or wine? I don't drink a lot of red wine, so having some on hand to wash every second day for one month could get very expensive!!!!!
B
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From every cheese I make I save a pint jar of the whey to mix into a washing brine. I don't drink wine either so I have either to buy it special for my ceeses and sausages or use some received as gifts.
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Wow, what a beautiful cheese!
I have to stop reading and plunge in... hopefully by next Christmas I'll have something 1/2 as nice looking to give away.
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Deb I highly recommend raw milk from local CT farmers! ;)
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Deb I highly recommend raw milk from local CT farmers! ;)
I will use some ;D My parents live in NH and I was up there a few weeks ago and we stopped at a farm in their town, farmer they know. Raw milk there was $2/ half gallon. I'm going to invest in a good cooler and give it to them this week so they can bring me milk at Christmas & we can make cheese.
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$2 a 1/2 gallon! That would almost pay for the gas for me to drive there. Of course then I wouldn't have time to make the cheese. My local guy is from Maine I believe. Definately has a strong Maine accent AYa! Very nice fellow his wife is sweet too. Brush Hill in Franklin.