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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Washed Rind & Smear Ripened => Topic started by: hoeklijn on October 06, 2012, 10:06:46 AM

Title: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: hoeklijn on October 06, 2012, 10:06:46 AM
At the beginning of this year I had my first try on Reblochon, which turned out to become a "Reblonbert" because I used PC Neige instead of Geo.
Well, this time I would do it better, with the help of the recipe and extensive threat from Yoav aka Iratherfly.
As usual I got this morning 20 liter of raw milk, during milking time, so still warm. All my preparations were done yesterday evening: Mixed my cultures because I'm not using Choozit cultures, sanitized my equipment and forgot to read my notes on the first try.
But well, this morning when I started to mould the curd, I certainly remembered: First time I used 8 liter milk. That time the wheels were a bit too thick for Reblochon because I used self made moulds. And now, because I had no access to other moulds so quickly, I ended up with two Stilton shaped towers and two smaller mould for which I have no follower.
I have no pictures, not because I'm too embarrassed  :-[ but because they are still in the moulds.
Would it be a good idea to cut slices before I'm going to salt them??
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: iratherfly on October 07, 2012, 08:31:19 AM
IF they are indeed so thick than slice them into two wheels each.  You will have to press them at twice the weight though, or press the 4-5 wheels you get at normal weight.

Notes!!!! They have saved me so much cheese and milk over the years!
So what cultures ARE you using?

Excited to see your results. You always make beautiful looking cheese Herman!
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: hoeklijn on October 07, 2012, 08:56:35 AM
Yes, I already increased the weight and I will wait with slicing until I'm going to salt them. But they are looking and smelling alright.
I used the cultures I bought from my German supplier (still finishing that before I order from you  :) ):
1/8 Alpha ( 2/3 Lactococcus Cremoris and Lactococcus Lactis and 1/3 Lactococcus Diacetilactis and Leuconostoc Cremoris)
1/16 Omega (80% Lactococcus cremoris and Lactococcus lactis and 20% Streptococcus thermophilus)
1/8 Delta (Streptococcus thermophilus)
1/8 Sigma 55 (Geo)
1/8 Sigma 96 (B. Linens)
I know I could have done it skipping the Omega, but since I also want to finish that one....
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: iratherfly on October 07, 2012, 08:18:46 PM
Hah, I am actually beginning to import all of those to the US next month. Will have a lot on hand.  They have a special Reblochon mix that I am after. Do you get those in the clear vials with the red cap?
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: Boofer on October 07, 2012, 10:01:48 PM
They have a special Reblochon mix that I am after. Do you get those in the clear vials with the red cap?
That's intriguing. Can you keep me in the loop on that?

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: hoeklijn on October 08, 2012, 06:31:54 AM
Hah, I am actually beginning to import all of those to the US next month. Will have a lot on hand.  They have a special Reblochon mix that I am after. Do you get those in the clear vials with the red cap?
Yes indeed, the small ones (DL-1). Why are you going to import them, only for the Reblochon mix? Which one is that, the Iota M? Have you any idea who the manufacturer is, because I don't have any background information now? I asked on the forum a while ago about these kind of mixtures and Linuxboy answered that it would be the same to mix it from other cultures.

Yesterday I sliced two wheels in half. I had to improvise a bit because I now ended up with a total of 6 wheels instead of the expected two, but they are in containers in a cool room now.
Tonight I'll add the pictures...
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: hoeklijn on October 08, 2012, 07:05:48 PM
And here is the result of an exciting weekend: Two smaller Rebs in a square container which I have to cover with the lids of two other containers that I didn't have prepared yet, and my big container with the sliced Rebs on 2 food grade cutting boards. The above board has a cheese cloth between board and mat, to prevent dripping.
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: LoftyNotions on October 08, 2012, 07:52:49 PM
It looks like all the scrambling you had to do is going to pay off.

Talk about a Chinese fire-drill! :)

Larry
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: iratherfly on October 09, 2012, 05:21:19 AM
Larry, that's funny.

Herman, Jim - of course I will keep you in the loop. They come from a small French company. I will have alpha through sigma cultures. They make all these specific strain mixes, just toss them on the milk and you are done: out comes a Camembert, Port Salut, Tomme, Reblochon, Chabichou etc. Really cool stuff. I am awaiting documentation so I will let you know when I know more.
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: hoeklijn on October 09, 2012, 06:33:04 AM
They come from a small French company.

Aha, interesting. I guess you contacted Käsereibedarf Leidinger after I pointed you to their website?
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: iratherfly on October 09, 2012, 06:48:46 AM
Actually no. They are a retailer so that's too expensive for me. I have been building up this relationship through a French cheesemaker that I am working with and it has taken a long time.  I am also getting many new things from this new place. Most of this stuff has never been sold outside of France and Italy ever and it's the first time it is being offered so I am excited. I have creameries already taking advanced orders for a couple of items.
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: hoeklijn on October 09, 2012, 10:51:23 AM
Okay, well I'm really interested in more documentation because, to be honest, the results I'm getting with these cultures are pretty good as far as I can judge.
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: Boofer on October 09, 2012, 01:50:52 PM
They look great, Herman!

I like the way you've tiered your ripening box. Very clever and functional use of space.

Actually no. They are a retailer so that's too expensive for me. I have been building up this relationship through a French cheesemaker that I am working with and it has taken a long time.  I am also getting many new things from this new place. Most of this stuff has never been sold outside of France and Italy ever and it's the first time it is being offered so I am excited. I have creameries already taking advanced orders for a couple of items.
It does sound very exciting. Good to have you right in the thick of it.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: hoeklijn on October 09, 2012, 05:19:09 PM
Thanks Boofer. It's now the third day after making and they are still quite wet, so I just gave them a bit more air tho breath and decided to wait a bit more before I make my morge.
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: hoeklijn on October 15, 2012, 06:58:42 PM
Time for an update, because it looks that I saved my Reblochons after all. I caved them last Thursday when I did the first wash and they are developing well as far as I can see. Geo is doing well and some pink area's are coming... and I can smell them....
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: LoftyNotions on October 15, 2012, 07:49:05 PM
Those are looking really nice, Herman. It looks like you have a lot more color development than I do at this point.

Mine definitely stink smell though. :)

Larry
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: Boofer on October 17, 2012, 05:01:52 AM
Boy, this Reb thing is driving me crazy! These and Lofty's look so good!

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: hoeklijn on October 17, 2012, 10:45:59 AM
Thanks Boofer, luckily enough I managed to wash them until now with an open window and without my wife in the neighborhood  >:D
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: iratherfly on October 23, 2012, 10:38:07 PM
Herman doesn't know how to make cheese that isn't beautiful! What's up with that?  ;)
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: Tiarella on October 23, 2012, 10:57:44 PM
Time for an update, because it looks that I saved my Reblochons after all. I caved them last Thursday when I did the first wash and they are developing well as far as I can see. Geo is doing well and some pink area's are coming... and I can smell them....

Hi Herman!!  beautiful cheeses!!!!!   :D. What are they supposed to smell like?  And what are they supposed to taste like??  They look so beautiful and it makes me wonder about making some but I am not yet a fan of very stinky cheeses.  can you describe what it's supposed to be like?
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: iratherfly on October 24, 2012, 03:21:18 AM
Kathrin, I made a whole big post about Reblochon, with its history, makeup, tips and of course - the recipe. Herman is using this recipe here.  Here's the old post. It's a long one but if you are interested in this cheese, you will enjoy it. Reblochon is really the most important cheese to learn if you want to enter the washed rind category, just like Tomme is for harder cheese or Camembert for bloomy cheeses, or Crottin is for lactic cheeses.

Here's the link: http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9928.msg (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9928.msg)
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: hoeklijn on October 24, 2012, 06:46:14 AM
What are they supposed to smell like?  And what are they supposed to taste like??  They look so beautiful and it makes me wonder about making some but I am not yet a fan of very stinky cheeses.  can you describe what it's supposed to be like?
Well, I guess you love them or you hate them. Some people say they smell like dirty socks, which is reasonable because the B.Linens comes from the same family of bacteria that is responsible for smelly feet.
In some parts of France it is forbidden to have Epoisses with you in public transport, and not without reason. It's a miracle that something with such a smell can taste so lovely.
But I love the smell (the cheese that is, not the socks and I'm pretty sure I can distinguish with a blind test  >:D)
This is my first real Reblochon because the first batch turned out to be more Camembert than Reblochon, but it was moisty, creamy, full of flavour with a slightly sharp edge, caused by the BL probably
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: iratherfly on October 24, 2012, 07:28:01 AM
I don't think they smell that strongly. They shouldn't. Reblochon are mixed rind and a bit on the mild side. Not nearly as smelly as Epoisse or Munster. Eating them is in total contrast to the smell however; supple, milky, soft, not too strong, preferably grassy. Very melty; If nothing else, use it to make Tartiflette, a great French dish of bacon, onions, sliced potatoes and Reblochon served hot and melty. Yumm!  There are many variations and recipes but here's a really good one: http://frenchcookingfordummies.com/2009/tartiflette/ (http://frenchcookingfordummies.com/2009/tartiflette/)
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: LoftyNotions on October 24, 2012, 08:44:39 AM
That recipe is now on my must make list. :) It'll be perfect for our French Dinner in 3 months.
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: hoeklijn on October 24, 2012, 10:33:44 AM
In a couple of weeks I'll post a report on the taste. By the end of the week I'm going to wrap them and store them at about 4C....
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: Tiarella on October 24, 2012, 12:13:27 PM
Hmmm, so many things to respond to!  :D  Yoav, I have read and printed out your lovely long Reblochon post for future use....I've read it a few times already and it sits in my cheese file on the windowsill next to the kitchen daybed seat for regular perusal.  If this is a milder tasting cheese it might be perfect for me to play with in between my experiments with leaf wrapping.  Hope you got my email about my order......

Herman, I look forward to reading the results of your tasting your make.  AND, if you ever do a blind smell test of the cheese and dirty socks I want to hear the results of that also!   ;D

Lofty, your batch looks amazing too!!!  Hope to read about their taste also.
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: Boofer on October 24, 2012, 01:31:07 PM
I don't think they smell that strongly. They shouldn't.
That's what I am finding also. I have said to several family members "Smell this." They don't smell anything untoward. Certainly no ammonia smell.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: hoeklijn on October 24, 2012, 05:29:19 PM
OK, to be honest, I'm a big fan of Epoisses and they really stink. That is also my experience with Limburger.
But this second batch of Reblochon is the first batch that is really responding to the washing by getting smelly.
In the first batch I had replaced the Geo with PC Neige, just because I didn't have Geo at that time, so it turned into Reblonbert.
Because the way the BL is developing (and the sensitive nose of my wife  ^-^), I washed this batch less than mentioned in the recipe of our Reblochon guru Iratherfly, so I hope they will turn out like expected. :#)  (Smiley with a pinched nose...)
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: Boofer on October 25, 2012, 06:09:01 AM
:#)  (Smiley with a pinched nose...)
Cute.  :)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: hoeklijn on November 17, 2012, 05:59:11 PM
Tonight we have a party at one of our neighbours and they want me to bring .... cheese (Duh!)
So I took a brave step and cut my first Reblochon. Smell is not overwhelming but recognizable. Body is starting to get gooey.
And the taste: euhh, well, like Reblochon?
At the background a 3 months old Gouda with Greek herbs, one of my favorites. Is also going to be a victim of tonight...
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: LoftyNotions on November 17, 2012, 06:10:30 PM
That's beautiful, Herman! A cheese for a beautiful cheese.

I hope to get color like that on one of mine someday. :)

Larry
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: Tiarella on November 18, 2012, 02:30:00 AM
Tonight we have a party at one of our neighbours and they want me to bring .... cheese (Duh!)
So I took a brave step and cut my first Reblochon. Smell is not overwhelming but recognizable. Body is starting to get gooey.
And the taste: euhh, well, like Reblochon?
At the background a 3 months old Gouda with Greek herbs, one of my favorites. Is also going to be a victim of tonight...

Oh my gosh, that's SO beautiful!!!!  Another cheese to you.  I wouldn't say your Gouda with herbs is being a victim but rather a celebrated guest and star attraction!!!  But I know what you mean.....I'm trying to decide whether to open up my leafed round for Thanksgiving feast.  I don't know when it will be best flavored and it's so beautiful being a full round that it feels like a shame to open it.  decisions, decisions!
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: hoeklijn on November 18, 2012, 10:40:28 AM
Thanks Lofty! About the color: I just followed the "Iratherfly manual": First two weeks wash the tops, flip them next day and wash the tops, but second week I only washed once.

I don't know when it will be best flavored and it's so beautiful being a full round that it feels like a shame to open it.  decisions, decisions!

Thanks Tiarella!. Well, I'm lucky to have still another 5 Rebs waiting for me and at least one has to survive until Christmas.
When the party was over yesterday evening all Reblochon was gone (they loved it and the smell was absolutely less then during the washing period) and a small part of the Gouda was left over.
Besides that I have lent my "Tim Smith" to one of the neighbours. She is a teacher and is thinking about buying a starter set to teach the children about making cheese.....
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: bbracken677 on November 18, 2012, 07:33:07 PM

Oh my gosh, that's SO beautiful!!!!  Another cheese to you.  I wouldn't say your Gouda with herbs is being a victim but rather a celebrated guest and star attraction!!!  But I know what you mean.....I'm trying to decide whether to open up my leafed round for Thanksgiving feast.  I don't know when it will be best flavored and it's so beautiful being a full round that it feels like a shame to open it.  decisions, decisions!

You could always just set it out with the other cheeses (uncut) as a sort of ornamental......a centerpiece, sort of
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: JeffHamm on November 18, 2012, 08:49:21 PM
That's a great looking cheese, so a cheese to you for it!  Glad to hear it was well received as well.  The gouda appears to have been a treat too.  Nice job all round then.

- Jeff
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: Boofer on November 18, 2012, 09:03:38 PM
Let me add my kudos to you, Herman. Excellent work! Looks really yummy. :)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: The use of notes, or "How I messed up my second Reblochon".
Post by: Tiarella on November 21, 2012, 12:01:14 AM

Oh my gosh, that's SO beautiful!!!!  Another cheese to you.  I wouldn't say your Gouda with herbs is being a victim but rather a celebrated guest and star attraction!!!  But I know what you mean.....I'm trying to decide whether to open up my leafed round for Thanksgiving feast.  I don't know when it will be best flavored and it's so beautiful being a full round that it feels like a shame to open it.  decisions, decisions!

You could always just set it out with the other cheeses (uncut) as a sort of ornamental......a centerpiece, sort of

Well, I did it!  I opened three cheeses so I could take wedges to a friend's house for dinner.  Posted photos in the "what are you eating for Christmas" thread in the Lounge.  It was hard to decide to cut them open but really fun to see what they'd become once I'd made the decision.  I vac bagged most of them to age a bit further. 

Now I have room for more cheeses in my wine fridge so I have to get busy.   ;D