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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => AGED LACTIC ACID COAGULATED - Normally Whey Removed => Topic started by: JeffHamm on November 12, 2011, 08:58:37 PM

Title: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 12, 2011, 08:58:37 PM
Hi,

I picked up a piece of blue cheese yesterday at the local farmer's market.  As my semi-lactic white mould cheese is doing well, and just about fully covered, I thought I would try something similar to make a blue cheese.  I saw some creme fresh at the grocery store as well, so thought I would try that as the culture too.

It's worked quite well.  There was a lot more curds this time around and it took about 2 hours to get them into the mold.  I've got two baskets, one inverted on the other like a shaker, and this way I can flip the cheese.  Whereas the first time the curds fit into one basket, this time they are a touch more.  It will eventually drain down to under one basket, but until then, it's quite full (see photo).

Once it firms, and the mold sprouts, I'll have to poke some holes.  Will see how that goes when the time comes.


Jeff’s Semi-Lactic Blue
Saturday, Nov 12, 2011 (overcast, 20-22 C)

2 L Farmhouse creamline milk
2 tbls crème fresh
Scrapings of mold from NZ Cheeseman bought blue (Onewhero blue: strong and earthy)
1 drop rennet in 1 tbls water
salt

1)   Mix starter in some warm milk, place in hot water cupboard for an hour or so (to get it going)
2)   Place scrapings of mold directly in milk; make sure it’s fine
3)   Warm milk to 25 C
4)   Add starter  milk (12:22 pm Saturday)
5)   Cover, and place in hot water cupboard (time: 12:25)
6)   After 6-8 hours at 1 drop rennet diluted in 1 tbls water (time: 7:15)
7)   Wait until curd forms and separates from whey (12-24 hours:)
8)   Ladle curd into mold (6:51-8:50 am next day: Sunday; temp 28.4 C; huge amount of curd; took about 2 hours to get it all into the mold!  Even then, had to stack two molds and flip once)
9)   Drain, flipping every 2-3 of hours or so until night, then drain overnight (flipped @ 8:50am – 10:00am – 11:40 am – 4:00 pm; final flip at 8:15 pm and will drain until Monday pm).
10)   Salt each face of the cheese (Monday, 5:00 pm ish; weight 453g)
11)   Tuesday Nov 15th, after work place in cave (10 C 4:30 pm, weight 426g), flip daily, until mould covers the cheese
12)   Wrap and age 2 – 4 weeks.

Wednesday, Nov 16: 7:00 am.  Pierced length wise multiple times (one centre, 2 “rings”).  Curd feels soft, but firm.  Will see if the piercings stay open.

Nov 17, 2011: first signs of mould bloom? (maybe a couple pinhead sized spots?  Not sure). 

Nov 18, 2011: definite blue mould spots.  One odd mould spot (longish black hairs;  Pol du chat? Removed this by cutting away the surface with a knife.  Will monitor for its return) Piercings still open

Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: Tomer1 on November 12, 2011, 09:45:24 PM
Perhaps after salting allow for the cheese to continue ferment outside for a day or two before moving it to the cave?
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 12, 2011, 10:47:28 PM
That might be a good idea.  Will keep an eye on how it's going at that time.

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: Tomer1 on November 13, 2011, 01:29:50 AM
Its interesting you made such a small quantity. Given that lactic cheeses are really simply and minimally time consuming compered to others maybe I should start making some of these baby ones on a weekly basis.
 
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: linuxboy on November 13, 2011, 04:34:42 AM
Tomer, IMHO, they fit in perfectly with one's life. Very forgiving in terms of time because meso culture will taper off around 4.6, giving a 12-hour+ window for when to begin draining. I make a lot of these buttons with all sorts of rinds and treatments. It's similar in France, tons of semi-lactics.
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 13, 2011, 06:39:49 AM
Hi Tomer1,

I'm experimenting with these, so the small size is a perfect way to try something new, without wasting a lot of milk.  If they turn out well, I can increase the make size once I'm confident that it's worth repeating.

- Jeff

P.S. But you're right, these small cheeses take next to no time to make.  And, they are the perfect size to give away.
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 14, 2011, 04:48:40 AM
I've salted both faces and the sides with a generous hand.  It weighs 453g.  I'll leave it out of the cave for another 24 hours, then move it in.  Once mould starts to show up I'll pierce it.  Of course, this will probably be the once cheese that just won't develope blue mould! :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 15, 2011, 04:20:36 AM
Hi,

It's now weighing in at 426g.  I've now removed it from the mould and shifted it to the cave after work today.  Will see how it developes over the next week or two. 

I'm wondering, should I pierce now, or wait until blue mold has developed on the surface?

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: linuxboy on November 15, 2011, 04:28:27 AM
Pierce as soon as the body paste supports it. Usually, this starts at 10-14 days for drier blues.
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 15, 2011, 05:10:19 AM
Thanks.  That makes sense.

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: Tomer1 on November 15, 2011, 05:31:20 AM
Since you surface salted perhaps you wont get as much blue on the rind?
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 15, 2011, 06:43:00 AM
Hi Tomer1,

We'll see.  The paste is very wet compared to a pressed cheese so I would think the salt gets absorbed into the cheese pretty quickly.  I think if you salted while ladelling the curd it would be so wet it would mostly run out with the whey.  Still, it's a matter of waiting to see what shows up and when.  So far it's pretty clean looking, but it's early days yet.

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 15, 2011, 07:49:48 PM
Well, being curious, I decided to see what would happen if I pierced it.  And, the paste is firm, though very moist.  The holes have retained shape for now, but I would not be surprised if they collapse in on themselves by the end of the day.  It was a last minute before work decision, and I forgot to take a photo.  Will try and get one after work today though.

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 16, 2011, 04:30:38 AM
Hi,

Well, the piercings held up well through the day, so I'm thinking these will stay open.  There's no sign of them closing up.  Then again, they may slowly collapse, but we'll see.  I'm hoping these blue up quickly as these are sort of intended as fairly quick cheeses (in my head they are at least!)

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 18, 2011, 03:59:51 AM
Oh yes I'm down ...
Oh I'm so far down ...
I ain't never seen the sun shine
in this part of town
And when I get down so far
My baby says to me
"I don't know where you are"
And I say ...
Hey. 
I'm down where everybody got
The Bluuuuuuu-ooooooosssss

Yep.  Definate blue mould spotted today.

- Jeff

Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: Boofer on November 18, 2011, 07:40:55 AM
Man, that looks pretty awesome! Looks pretty wet too.

Doing my first semi-lactic tomorrow at the Crack of Dawn: Chaource. Trying out my new small Bûcheron molds. Woo woo!

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: Tomer1 on November 18, 2011, 09:07:26 AM
So I had a go at a blue,
Added Probat 222 and the tiniest powdery amount of PR to the 2L of milk.
Let it acidify for two hours at around 20-2 degres to produce the max amount of diacetyl and then added rennet. diluted 1 drop in some water and added half the water but I think Ive added too much because two hours later It has already set.   Didnt feel like pulling my meter and check for PH but its no bacterial set. :\
Gone leave it for another 10-12 hours to finish acidifying and then drain.
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: anutcanfly on November 18, 2011, 05:58:29 PM
Only we cheeses can understand and appreciate a happy dance at the sight of mold!  ;D  Looking good Jeff!
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 18, 2011, 06:06:48 PM
Hi Boofer,

Yah, the curd is very moist, but firm.  The piercings have not shown any sign of collapsing.  I doubt horizontal piercings would hold up though.  This experiment is going well. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 18, 2011, 06:12:29 PM
Hi Tomer1,

I've not timed how long after adding rennet the curd forms up.  I let this sit about 7 hours before adding the rennet.  As it was in the hot water cupboard, the temperature was around 28.5 C (I took a temp reading of the whey when I removed it the next day, so it was probably around that by the 7 hour mark).  I left it the 7 hours the first time because I was originally going to try full lactic, but realised that semi-lactic was probably the better way to ease into this kind of cheese.  That went so well I did the same thing this time.

Also, just added blue mould scrappings from a bought cheese.   I've heard this can produce less reliable results (or more variable), so I suspect you'll get a better mould bloom and coverage quicker.  Look forward to seeing your reports and final result.

These little cheeses are fun.

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 18, 2011, 06:13:22 PM
Hi Anut,

Yes, that's true.  I told my friends I should be good at making cheese because I've long been an expert at letting food go mouldy in a fridge! :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: Tomer1 on November 18, 2011, 11:48:31 PM
Well I think I got way too much whey-curd seperation but it wasnt a clean brake kind of thing. more like a mass of curd sitting in a deep layer of whey which broke when I dried it.  Maybe I should have waited longer but I think the overuse of rennet was the problem.

What I got now after about 12 hours of draining is some really nice smooth cream cheese inside a tiny mold.
Im gone leave it for another day or two to harden (I hope) before I try to flip it and salt it.
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: ellenspn on November 18, 2011, 11:50:27 PM
Hi Anut,

Yes, that's true.  I told my friends I should be good at making cheese because I've long been an expert at letting food go mouldy in a fridge! :)

- Jeff

AH!  That explains why I'm so interested in cheese.

Off to go clean a path for the new fridge that arrives on Monday :)
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 19, 2011, 12:25:32 AM
Hi Tomer1,

That sounds right actually.  The curd will be this big blob sitting in a pool of whey (I've got some photos in the other thread of mine showing what it looked like).  It won't be like a rennet set curd, but very soft and cream cheesey and lots of clear fluid (as if you've cut it and let is sit for quite sometime already).  I just ladeled it into the molds using a large plastic cooking spoon to cut layers of the curd and place it into the molds.  It drains a lot of whey over a couple days.  It sit the mold on chopsticks over a bowl to catch the whey and  I was emptying the bowl each day.  A lot of fluid in these wee things.  I could flip mine after about 3 hours in the mold (very carefully), but use your judgement.

ANut,

Hope your new fridge fills up soon! :)

- Jeff 
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: anutcanfly on November 19, 2011, 12:50:22 AM
Huh?   ??? I have a new fridge?  Wow...the power of positive thought in action!  Yipee!  ;)
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 19, 2011, 01:54:24 AM
Doh!  I read Ellenspn but typed Anut!  lol!  Ellenspn is getting the new fridge.  You're thinking positive thoughts! :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: Tomer1 on November 19, 2011, 02:52:41 AM
Yep jeff, thats accurate. The liquid is clear so I've kept most of the casain.
The milk is not that high quality, im getting some raw goat's milk next week and wanted to trial this technique first so I know what expect.
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: ellenspn on November 19, 2011, 03:09:14 AM
Doh!  I read Ellenspn but typed Anut!  lol!  Ellenspn is getting the new fridge.  You're thinking positive thoughts! :)

- Jeff

LOL!  Problem is that it's the fridge in the kitchen, not another cheese cave but I will get my cave back from the eggs, condiments and feta when the new fridge arrives :)
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 19, 2011, 03:36:16 AM
Hi Tomer1,

I think experimenting with these is a good idea, especially if you're used to rennet set curds.  These are my first attempts at it, and from reading the forum I knew to expect it to be quite different from what I was used to.  I also knew to look for the curd pulling away from the sides of the pot and floating in the whey, otherwise I would have wondered what I did.  Still, the curds are so much wetter than rennet set curds that it just seems wrong that they are still draining after a couple days. 

Have fun.  I'm sure they will turn out.

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 20, 2011, 05:54:50 PM
Some of the piercings didn't go all the way through to the other side, so I repierced yesterday.  This was also to get a feel for the curd.  It's very firm, exceptionally moist, and developing nicely.  Of course, repiercing means some cheese stuck to the probe.  Some blue was on there, though not much as it's still slowly developing.  Anyway, these volunteer samples were tasted and this is turning out to be a fantastic success.  The taste was very very good, though also very mild at the moment because there wasn't much blue yet.  Still, the blue flavour goes extremely well with the texture and underlying flavour of the curds.  Nice.

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 25, 2011, 04:32:39 PM
This one is becoming quite multicoloured.  A bit of cross-contamination from the PC, but it should make for an interesting result.  Seems to be developing nicely though.

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: anutcanfly on November 25, 2011, 05:06:15 PM
 :o If I didn't know what delights hid behind the exterior of a multi moldy rind I would have had to say that's frightening!  ;D 
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: Boofer on November 25, 2011, 05:47:29 PM
:o If I didn't know what delights hid behind the exterior of a multi moldy rind I would have had to say that's frightening!  ;D
Yeah, since I started down this road, my perspective of things moldy has definitely taken on enhanced vision.

"Hey, Boofer, the cheese is moldy...I'm going to throw it out."
"No, Honey, it's just aging properly. It's supposed to look like that."  ;)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: anutcanfly on November 25, 2011, 06:29:35 PM
Yes, I remember that argument... now I remove exterior mold before my sweetheart can see it!  ;)
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: Tomer1 on November 26, 2011, 09:07:14 AM
Jeff what kind of blueing are you getting?

It just started showing up and its already smelling very pungent, I hope the taste is not the same since I like my blues mild.
Maybe my culture is not mild enough for this style of cheese and the high moisture just accelerates everything.
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on November 26, 2011, 06:30:05 PM
It seems ok at the moment.  I used mold from a blue cheese and not prepared culture, which could make a difference.  The cheese I used was a fairly strong one, so the difference may be preference.  I don't mind a strong blue.

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: Tomer1 on November 26, 2011, 06:51:49 PM
I once forgot one of my left over stiltons wraped in the back of the fridge for a few months.
The taste was unbearable, it was so strong my tongue was about to fall off,
It was like tasting the most overly tannic wine ever,same astringency.
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on December 02, 2011, 02:41:50 AM
Hi,

Just an update as the bluing takes over.  It's looking good.  I repierced today, and the cheese that came out on the skewer was quite tasty!  Still a bit mild, but it's holding up. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: Boofer on December 02, 2011, 10:18:53 PM
That's got a really nice blue patina. A regular piece of art.  :)

How long will you let it go?

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: anutcanfly on December 02, 2011, 10:59:29 PM
I like the color of your blue.  My blue is green with envy.  ;)
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on December 03, 2011, 04:15:19 AM
Thanks Boofer and Anut,

It's only about 3 weeks old now, so I could let it go a bit longer.  Another week at least, will see how things progress. 

The colour in the photo is a much more "baby blue" than it looks in real life.  I used the flash on this photo, and that's changed the colour.  But, it shows where the blue is developed, etc, so that's good.  Should be quite tasty if the blue fills in the pierceing well.

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on December 12, 2011, 04:27:05 AM
Hi all!

Ok, today is day 30 for this one.  I decided to cut into it and give it a go.  The paste is still very moist, but solid all the way through.  There were no openings for additional blue to develop.  Not surprising though.  The piercings have remained open, and blue has developed along them nicely.  The taste is very, very good!  My wife gave it a 10 out of 10, and she normally doesn't care for blue cheese (although she thinks she's developing a taste for it as she enjoyed the cheese from which I harvested the mould, and she's enjoyed some blues at work parties recently as well).  Anyway, the flavour is a definate blue (especially if you eat the rind).  It's not mild, but not too strong or over the top either.  There's no bitterness or acidity to the paste, and it spreads very nicely.  This is definately worth doing again.  Probably my best blue yet!   (Ok, I admit it, it's the only blue I've done - at least on purpose!)

- Jeff

p.s. My 4 year old daughter likes this one too!  She's developed a very sophisticated palette when it comes to cheese, and now likes most everything I've made.  Hmmm, wonder how she's going to do with the washed rind that I'm doing?
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: Tomer1 on December 12, 2011, 12:31:10 PM
(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/4466/dsc0084p.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/dsc0084p.jpg/)


The shades of blue is not digital degredation of the picutre but the real deal which is cool ^-^

 (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6011/dsc0091rt.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/403/dsc0091rt.jpg/)


Next attemp, drain longer to reduce moisture and wrap. (early)
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: anutcanfly on December 12, 2011, 04:58:35 PM
Looking very tasty
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: Tomer1 on December 12, 2011, 06:43:05 PM
Well.. Unfortunatlly it wasnt.  Bitter and the curds werent as creamy as I hoped.
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on January 09, 2012, 07:48:47 AM
Well, all good things must come to an end.

Just had the last wee bit of this the other day.  It remained good, although this last piece was just starting to amoniate.  My 4 year old asked for some, and this was the first time she said she didn't want it after tasting it.  It was very spicy on the finish, like too much black pepper.  I didn't mind it, but really, it was well past it's prime.  However, the sample I had prior to the very last piece was still very good, and that was only about a week before.  So, basically, this one seems to have a fairly long period of prime eating, which is perfect for such a small cheese.  I'm surprised it lasted for so long actually.

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: anutcanfly on January 09, 2012, 05:15:45 PM
What's the verdict?  Good enough to run again as is, or more tweaking in order?
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: Tomer1 on January 09, 2012, 05:45:09 PM
I dont think there is much tweaking to be made with this style of cheese.   Its all about proper draining and aging cold or so it seems.  Perhaps variation of cultures and type of PR (some are more agressive\strong then others)can create the most noticable difference in profile.   Using a very mild PR can get you deacification of the paste without a pungent taste.   
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on January 09, 2012, 11:02:12 PM
I will definately do this again the same way. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: DeejayDebi on January 11, 2012, 02:49:03 AM
Your creativity deserves a reward - Good show Jeff!
Title: Re: Jeff's semi-lactic Blue
Post by: JeffHamm on January 11, 2012, 06:54:54 AM
Thanks DeegjayDebi!