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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Rennet Surface White Mold (Penicillium candidum) Ripened => Topic started by: Al Lewis on November 28, 2012, 05:15:21 AM
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Okay, I really want to make a cambozola. I have p candidum, geotrichum candidum, flora danica, roqueforti, and buttermilk culture. Not sure which of these is the best, read as most successful, for making cambozola. When I did my Camembert I used a pinch of the geotrichum and the candidum. Should I use both for this or is one better by itself? Does the roqueforti have to be sprinkled in the middle or can it be mixed in the milk? As with most cheeses I've tried to research a recipe on there seems to be as many different ones as people making them. Thought I would seek the help of those of you that have successfully made this cheese and then turn this page into a make. This will be a triple cream version using pasteurized milk. Thanks in advance.
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Okay, after going through several web sites and comparing recipes here is what I have come up with. This will be my recipe, good or bad, for making a Cambozola.
Cambozola
Ingredients
• 2 US gallons pasteurized-homogenized whole milk with 1 quart heavy cream added
• 1/4 teaspoon Calcium Chloride for the pasteurized milk
• 1/4 teaspoon Flora Danica Mesophilic Starter Culture
• 1/4 teaspoon liquid animal rennet in 4 ounces of cool water
• 1/32 teaspoon Penicillium candidum
• pinch of Geotrichum
• 1/16 teaspoon Penicillium roqueforti
• Salt
Making
1. Pour milk/cream into pot and add CaCl2, and heat slowly to 86 F. Maintain this temperature throughout the process.
2. Sprinkle Flora Danica, Penicillium candidum, and Geotrichum onto the warmed milk, let thoroughly dissolve before gently stirring in, using top to bottom strokes. Allow to ripen for 30 minutes.
3. Dilute rennet in 4 ounces cool water and stir gently into milk for about 2-4 minutes. Set aside to let curd set.
4. After 90 min check for clean break, wait longer if required.
5. Gently ladle 1/3 of the curds, keep as large as possible, into a 8” cylinder mold.
6. Sprinkle a very small dusting of penicillium roqueforti on top of the curds. Repeat this step with a further 1/3 of the curd.
7. Gently ladle the rest of the curds into the top.
8. Let the curd drain for 16-24 hours, until you see no additional draining, turning the mold during this period at increasing intervals to ensure drain evenly, i.e. after 1/2, 1, 3, 7, and 12 hours.
9. Day 2 remove from the mold and add the first dose of salt to the surface. 1 tsp of salt is added and then evenly spread over the surface. This can then be lightly spread to the outside edge as well. There will be less salt on the edge but the next application will also be applied to the edge and even out the distribution. When finished, place back in the mold with salt side up and leave until the salt dissolves in the cheese moisture and eventually into the cheese.
In about 4-6 hours flip the cheese and repeat on the other side.
10. Day 3 carefully remove Cambozola from mold and place onto a draining mat in a 65F room to finish drying. Turn often until no surface moisture is seen.
Aging
1. After cheese has dried place in cave at 56F and 95% RH.
2. About day 3-6 you should note a growth of a white felt-like surface of mold (P. candidum), which will begin to fill in over the next few days and eventually cover the surface with a full coat of fuzz. This can be gently patted down when you turn the cheese daily.
3. When good white mold has covered cheese, puncture sides to center at both levels the roqueforti was sprinkled using a clean thermometer. Turn thermometer while slowly inserting to minimize tearing cheese.
4. Continue to age at lower 56F, re-poke holes if additional white mold bloom covers the original holes.
5. 10-14 days after the original puncturing, wrap cheeses in Camembert Paper and age at 40-50F for several weeks until center is soft to the touch.
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I think the amounts of PC and PR are a bit excessive. I usually get good pc growth with my cams while going with just 1/32 tsp. for 2 gallons. I suspect you can get by with much less PR as well, like maybe 1/16th?
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I agree with bbracken on the amounts of molds. Besides that the description looks okay. I guess the thermometer is pretty thin? I use a sort of bbq-stick, about 9 mm wide and 3 mm thick, works okay for me....
I have a batch of 4 waiting in the cave, all wrapped up. Have to save at least one of them for Christmas.
Picture is from one of a previous batch.
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Thanks for the advice. ;D I'll probably make this this weekend so I'll post pictures. I'm looking to get a double layer of blue. I made room in the cave tonight so I could do this.
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Good looking cave, Al. :)
-Boofer-
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Okay, youse dudes are messin' with my head here, right? Because if bbracken uses 1/32nd tsp for 2 gallons, and Al is doing a 4 gallon make, the recipe says 1/16th tsp, which would be correct. Al, did you edit the recipe amounts without telling me? ;D
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Sorry about that, I edited them after the post per the suggestions. LOL \
Thanks Boofer! :D
hoeklijn, the thermometer I use is .120" in diameter so right around 3mm.
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Okay, first off I adjusted the recipe back to 2 gallons. Here's why, get ready for a really hair brained scheme. :o You see I have this open end stilton mold I bought a while back that just fits into this 2 gallon stainless pot I also have. Anyone see where this is going? ???
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So I make the camembert in the 2 gallon pot. Then, once the curd has set, I press the mold into the curd to cut a perfect form that will fill the mold as it is about the same height as the pot. Then I place a mat over the end of the mold and turn the entire thing upside down to get the single large curd into the mold and out of the pot. :P
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Yup and it's a good plan, remember smaller=less ageing ;)
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Now for the final steps. I have another mold, with a bottom in it, that is the same diameter as the stilton mold so….. I mate up the ends and slide the large curd 2.5 inches into the other mold and slice it off. Now I can sprinkle the roqueforti onto the open face of the curd and then slide the piece back into the mold. I then do the same thing to the other end and finish with the, now three piece, large curd back in the stilton mold where it can be flipped and drained as if it were one piece. ;D I realize this is mad scientist stuff but I really think I can pull it off. If nothing else it will be a great story. ::) Any comments??? LMAO
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LOL, yes, it's a smart way to do it, but to be honest: The method of just filling the moulds halfway, sprinkle the PR and fill the rest is also working. I wonder which method they use in the commercial making of Cambozola.....
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Not sure about cambozola but I've read that brie and camembert is cut this way so there is a single mass of curd in the mold. That's where I got the idea. ???
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Sounds like a revolutionary idea, Al.
IMHO, the only gotcha that occurs to me is that you might minimize the gaps inside the paste where the blue can grow. By scooping/ladling and filling the moulds you would create more crevices and spaces for the PR.
-Boofer-
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Well I don't mind taking one for the team. LOL Anyway, here we go! Almost up and running.
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Okay, up to target temp and the timer is set for the 30 minute ripening period.
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Okay, 90 minutes for the rennet to set and then we'll either see the biggest train wreck in cheese history or something really cool. Definitely one of those "hold my beer and watch this" moments. LOL
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Okay, definite train wreck. LMAO Not enough rennet evidently. Without a firm enough curd the mass couldn't maintain its form and simply turned to instant mush under its own weight. No problem, I'll just start over and use the conventional scooping of the curd. :D
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Did you try to gather a huge curd mase with the mould?
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That target temp (160F) shown is pretty scary. I guess you're really using the current temp (86F), huh? ::)
-Boofer-
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Yeah, Only need the other one for hamburgers. LOL Have the second one in the mold. We'll see how it comes out. ;D
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Okay, next morning and the cambozola in the mold has drained nicely, after being flipped on schedule, and is now 8" round X 2" thick. Have to remove the mold and salt it down today. ;D Also have to check on whether to smooth the sides first. :-\
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While I have never made a cambozola, I have made a few cams and normally during draining the mechanical openings are closed due to the moisture level of the initial curds in the mold.
When I make cams I do not cut the curd, just scoop it out and into the mold at which point it drains whey until it is approximately 1/3rd it's original height. This looks like a very unique way of handling the curd and very interesting one as well....Also...what do you do with the curd that is left inside the pot?
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I still dont understand how you scoop it out in one go, as its a bottomless mould. :o
Teach us the trick! ;D
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No trick to it Tomer1, it didn't work. LOL The plan was to insert the mold, place a mat and board on top of it, and then invert the entire pot, over another pot, so you have a huge curd mass in the mold. However, the curd is nowhere near firm enough to hold itself together so it all became mush. The one in the pictures was done in the conventional way by scooping large chunks of curd into the mold. bbracken677 I'm not sure if it was the large mold I used or what but the sides still have mechanical openings. Oh well, more places for the blue mold to take hold and grow. Couldn't find anywhere that said to smooth them over. Went to one of my favorite stores this morning, Cash & Carry. It's a restaurant supply store for those of you that haven't heard of them. Picked up this great container with draining rack for the cambozola. Gotta love a place with stuff like that that also sells whole USDA Choice Lip on Ribeyes. Container has a top that seals so I may have to punch a few wholes in that, or the side og the container, for ventilation but it fits perfect. They have these things in every size imaginable. Anyway, the cheese has been salted and we'll see how the white furry stuff does in a few days. :o
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Okay, so no one every answered the question about the P. roqueforti. Does it have to be sprinkled onto the cheese curds or can it be added to the milk? If it's supposed to be sprinkled, and it gets added instead, what's the result?
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Okay, so no one every answered the question about the P. roqueforti. Does it have to be sprinkled onto the cheese curds or can it be added to the milk? If it's supposed to be sprinkled, and it gets added instead, what's the result?
Not to ignore your question,but, I have no idea how it works with Cambozola :-[
I think I have read somewhere you sprinkle as you fill your hoop with curd. not sure though :-\
AL
I really thought you had a great idea 8)
A cheese to you for your persistence ;D
It is looking excelent so far though :)
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Thanks H-K-J, After the train wreck, trying to bring it out as one lump of curd, stuff went everywhere, total loss, I started over from scratch and followed my recipe I posted. Not sure why the curd didn't knit tightly but I suspect it was the huge lumps of curd I was putting into the mold. At any rate we'll see how it turns out. ;D I'll keep posting pics as it progresses. I'm really not all that sure that the p candidum doesn't just cover the holes.
rosawoodsii I sprinkled it onto the layers as you are supposed to according to the recipes I read. I suspect if you just mix it in it might interfere with the p candidum and geo. Not sure, just guessing. ::)
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I think I'll find out at time goes by. I made Cambozola a couple of weeks ago and had already added it to the milk before I realized I wasn't supposed to. Hopefully it'll be a happy accident and not a disaster.
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It'll be blue :P I luv's blue ::)
Just give it a chance to show you what a good blue it can be ^-^
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I'm new at this so don't put a lot of store into this but, it seems to me that the blue veining is going to radiate from the piercing holes you put in the cheese. Like in a Stilton?? That being the case, it shouldn't matter where you put it. Right??? :o Oh, I luvs blue too!!!
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My thought being you have the PR-PV sprinkled on the inside and the Penicillium candidum sprayed or aplied some way on the out side you promote it's growth and shut down the PR from the inside, then poke it to encourage the PR to grow on the inside.
Never made one so this is just my take on what I have read :-\
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I mixed the p candidum and geo into the milk with the Flora D. ??? This could be an entirely new breed of cheese!!! LMAO
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I mixed the p candidum and geo into the milk with the Flora D. ??? This could be an entirely new breed of cheese!!! LMAO
Thats how I do it...and when you poke holes in the cam they should close up pretty quickly...wont be like a stilton.
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I didn't add Geo to my Cambozola. I did mix all the other stuff together though. There's some really good white mold growth on the outside, and it looks like there may be a hint of blue.
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I would actually like to try making a cam, but instead of the pc and geo just add the blue. Let the blue ripen the cheese as the pc normally would.
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I would actually like to try making a cam, but instead of the pc and geo just add the blue. Let the blue ripen the cheese as the pc normally would.
Do it! You can call it dogsuit blue. ;)
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Or blue suede shoes! :o :) ^-^
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Wouldn't that be closer to a Maytag Blue?
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Well day five and it's starting to grow its winter fur coat. Once that's completed I'll poke some holes in it to get the blue to grow.
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Flipped and rubbed this one today and noticed small blue spots appearing on the sides. ;D
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Decided to use this bamboo skewer to punch this one. It's only .120" diameter, 3mm, and it will go all of the way through the 8" wheel so, as long as I keep it level, only have to punch half as many times. ;D
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Flipped and rubbed this one today and noticed small blue spots appearing on the sides. ;D
I thought the fur was supposed to stay on there. Why rub it off?
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You don't rub it off. You simply rub it down a bit and basically spread it over the entire surface by rubbing your hands over it.
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Had some blue spots too. In my case I let the white do it's job and the blue spots disappeared.
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Hoping mine do the same on the outside.
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For what it's worth, I'll describe a related experiment of my own.
I made a cheese I called "Red, White, and Blue" on 7/4 to serve 9/3 last summer. (Independence Day and Labor Day, Ammie holidays). I cultured and renneted and cut two separate pots of ND goat milk. To a one gallon pot I added PC and geo to the milk. I added powdered PR culture to the 2 gallons of milk in the other pot. I drained the blue curds and then placed them in a muslin lined tomme mold. I covered that with a thin, widely spaced layer of rehydrated sun dried tomato strips. I topped that off by ladling the white curds on top, adding bits of sun dried tomato throughout that layer. I pressed under light weight without flipping.
Once dried I pierced the blue layer all over, extending the skewer half-way into the white layer. As it ripened the PC growth extended over the exterior of the blue layer, but was spottier than it was over the top of the cheese inoculated with the PC. I didn't pat down or brush the PC growth at all. When I cut it I found that the blue veining did not extend into the white curd. The softening of the blue curd layer from some PC invasion was perceived, but to a lesser extent than in the "red and white" layer. The different layers were distinctly evident, but had begun to meld noticeably.
It's a bit fussy, but I suppose one could do something similar for a cambozola, burying the blue curd within the white curd when filling the molds, if you didn't mind running two separate make pots at once. I run two pots with some frequency for layered cheeses out of necessity. My largest pot suitable for Cheesemaking right now is only two gallons and my tomme mold works best for makes of at least 2-1/2 gal. Forming curd identically in two pots is near impossible so I usually go for distinct layers, like two different milks in a morbier style cheese.
As for the "Red, White, and Blue" cheese, it was good, but a bit over-ripe at 60 days. It really should have been eaten between 5-6 weeks. The tomato was interesting, and I'll likely try something like that again in a simpler cheese like a cam (toward the idea of a champignon). It was a bit busy in this cheese. A fun novelty, but a few too many flavor elements at once.
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Well when I ladled the curd into the mold I did so in three layers sprinkling the PR on the top of the first and second layer so it should have two layers of blue veining all things being equal.
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Picked up this great container with draining rack for the cambozola.
Say Al, what brand is that container?
Maybe it could also be found on line for those who don't have a Cash & Carry nearby.
Thanks!
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Don't know if they sell on-line but here's the link to the company that makes them. They are in Huntington Beach CA.
http://cool.cambro.com/ (http://cool.cambro.com/)
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Don't know if they sell on-line but here's the link to the company that makes them. They are in Huntington Beach CA.
[url]http://cool.cambro.com/[/url] ([url]http://cool.cambro.com/[/url])
I love Cambro! I thought it might be from the look of the 'rack'. I haven't found Cambro to be cheap from the on line sources I've used, so I'll have to check out Cash & Carry for their prices (must go there, the website is too non-specific).
I found a number of plastic containers with bottom racks at IKEA. The down side is that there is a little curved handle in the middle of the rack to pick it up--we've nipped those off and I buy cheap-o cross stitch/embroidery plastic canvas on line and then cut it to fit on top of the rack. The lids have a little vent which can be opened for slight modification of humidity. Very reasonably priced and a number of sizes.
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/categories/departments/small_storage/20606/ (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/categories/departments/small_storage/20606/) the ones with the red lids
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Do all the red-lid containers have a rack? It doesn't show that in the description.
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Cash & Carry sells the containers in three pieces, the container, the lid, and the drain rack. I bought 6 of the drain racks, that fit my shelves in my cave, and use them under my cheeses with a paper towel to drain. This, along with another plastic square panel, keeps them above the cooling coils in the shelves.
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No Cash and Carry stores around here. :( Oh, well.
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Do all the red-lid containers have a rack? It doesn't show that in the description.
If you are asking about the ones from IKEA, I'm not sure, but certainly a large rectangular one (bigger than a big shoebox) and a small rectangular one (smaller than a shoebox) do
Cambro can be purchased on line, mostly through restaurant suppliers. You don't have to have a C&C, although I can't say how prices compare.
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The Cambro site has a link to put you in touch with one of their distributors.
http://cool.cambro.com/find_a_rep/find_a_rep_usa.aspx (http://cool.cambro.com/find_a_rep/find_a_rep_usa.aspx)
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Well I'm still waiting for a full bloom on my Cambozola. Other side looks the same. It is increasing and I'm hoping it gets fully covered soon.
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Getting much better bloom and pierced it. Have to air it each day now I guess.
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WOW!!!! I am alittle intimidated by this cheese would love to try one :P
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WOW!!!! I am alittle intimidated by this cheese would love to try one :P
Keep an open mind, and learn somethin' new everyday.... ;)
-Boofer-
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It seems I've heard that somewhere before ;) LOL ;D
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Just hoping my softens up in the middle. I did Bries and they tasted perfect but never got soft.
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Too thick is one thing that will prevent a full softening, so I have begun making my cams a bit thinner.
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The bries were thin, tasty creamy and delicious but never got the soft paste in the center. Hopefully that will change with this recipe. ???
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Just a quick update, I re-pierced my cambozola today. One of the bamboo mats came undone so I ended up with about 100 bamboo skewers. As they are thinner than the skewer I used originally I used one of them to push back through the original openings.
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Well, despite the fact that the white furries never showed up and the center didn't get soft this cheese came out with a very good blue center that is creamy and has a sharp taste of blue. I know what I did wrong now, too much geo, so the next ones will be better but for now I have 2 pounds of very nice blue cheese. ;D
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That looks very nice. What do you mean "too much goo"?
Nothing wrong with a good blue cheese, definitely.
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"Geo" is one of the white moulds, if there's too much the surface ends up too wet for the PC to grow (the white mould typically associated with cams). So, "too much geo" just means there was too much of that growing and it prevented proper rind development.
- Jeff
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Yeah, what he said!! :o
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That's what happens when I read without my glasses. I saw "goo" and he said "geo". Life's little challenges...