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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Other => Topic started by: JeffHamm on September 03, 2011, 06:53:37 AM

Title: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on September 03, 2011, 06:53:37 AM
Hi,

Well, I've decided to make another Caerphilly.  I just got 200 Easy Homemade Cheese Recipes, and this is the first cheese I'm making from it.  I noticed the Caerphilly make is quite different from the version I'm used to following (which is from Tim Smith's book, making artisan cheese).  Anyway, this version doesn't include any stacking or milling of the curd.  I'm curious to see how it turns out.  The one thing I've learned recently is that apparently it is best to add the Calcium Chloride with the rennet rather than with the starter.  I got a great curd set this time, and I think it was a better than usual so maybe that helped?  Anyway, I blew it on the heating over 30 minutes phase and reached temp in about 10 minutes or so.  I've normally done well with that, but I tried doing it a different way this time (in the double boiler rather than in the sink) and it got out of control.  Oh well.

Anyway, here are the make notes.  It's in the press right now, so tomorrow morning it goes into the brine.  Will get a photo before it goes in.  From the look of it during the flipping, it should be a good knit.

Caerphilly (fr: 200 Easy Homemade Cheese Recipies): Saturday, Sept 3, 2011 (overcast, cool, < 18C)
10 L Home brand Standard
0.6 ml rennet
½ tsp CaCl
2 ice cubes Flora Danica (started prep around 12:15)

1)   Warm to 32 C
2)   Add starter, ripen 30 min (start time: 12:45 end time:1:15 start temp: 32.1C: end Temp: 31.8 C)
3)   Stir in CaCl in egg cup of water
4)   Stir in Rennet in egg cup of water (Time: 1:18  Temp: 31.7 C)
5)   Floc time 11 min 30 sec.  3x multiplier = cut after 34 min 30 seconds (AT 6min30sec, had to lift pot out of sink as temp heating too much ; at 32.5C; book says cut at 45 min)
6)   Cut into 1.25 cm (1/2 inch) cubes (great curd!)
7)   Let curds stand 5 min to firm up (start time: 2:05 end time : 2:10 temp: 32.5 C)
8)   Slowly warm to 35 C over 30 minutes (start time: 2:10 end  2:20  end temp: 36.4 C ) too fast
9)   Hold at temp for 45 minutes (start time: 2:20 end time: 3:15  end temp: 34.6 C ) (add time from step 8)
10)   Drain whey
11)   Transfer curds to cloth lined mold
12)   Medium pressure (10 kg) 30 minutes (start time:3:35 end time: 4:15 ) (in pot)
13)   Flip redress, press 30 min (10 kg 0.7 psi : 4:15 – 4:45) (in pot)
14)   Flip redress, press overnight (20 kg = 1.4 psi )
15)   Place in saturated brine (24 hours)
16)   Air dry 2 or 3 days
17)   Age 3 weeks at 10-12 C, 85% humidity.
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: darius on September 03, 2011, 01:24:19 PM
Uses only Flora Danica? The recent recipes I've tried had half FD, half regular meso...

I'll be watching!
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: fied on September 03, 2011, 02:59:08 PM
A neat recipe! I've noted this in 200 Cheese and mean to try it. The method I use is to cut into 1" curds and add salt to  them prior to pressing and I only press to c. 25lb per 2 imperial gallons of milk in a 6" press because I like Caerphilly to be a little curdy and crumbly.

The current one we're tasting was a bit of a disaster. I was showing my husband how to make the cheese in a cheesecloth with weights on top of a board and this method means the cheese knot has to be tightened at intervals up to final pressing. My husband was attempting to hold the cheese tight while tightening the knot, used too much force and the whole cheese crumbled! I managed to get it back together again, but there were some deep cracks in the sides and I knew there would be early trouble with blue mould because Glasgow has a naturally high relative humidity. After fighting the mould for a month, I gave up, cut off the blued parts of the rind and decanted the cheese to the fridge to be eaten. The taste and texture are fine, if too young for me - I like it at about 8 weeks. Lesson learned: husbands may need to be sent on a cheese-making course.
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: pliezar (Ian) on September 03, 2011, 06:16:57 PM
Hi Jeff,

The 200 cheeses recipe is the one that I had used, heavily modified with stuff from you and Greening with Gavin.  I did notice that it did not have the stacking of the curd and it said brine instead of salting the milled curd, I am interested to see the results and know the how the different process effects texture and flavour. My wife has requested I make another one soon.

On a side note, I am glad to see that the little one has not interrupted you cheese making too much.  I hope I can use you as an example for when our "Daughter" (Doc is 80% sure it is a girl), to prove that it can be done, as my wife has said that cheese making should halt after the birth.

Cheers,

Ian

Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on September 03, 2011, 06:47:27 PM
Hi All,

Darius, you're correct, the book calls for a 50/50 mix, but I only have Flora Danica.  I really should pick up something else, but this works ok.  So far, all my cheese making has used only two cultures (FD for meso, and a thermo, whose name escapes me at the moment).

Hi Fied.  I've tended to get more mechanical holes in my caerphilly (but made by salting the curds, and stacking and milling, etc), so I tend to go for heavier weights than the books call.  This still only ends up at around 1.4 psi once I'm up to 20 kg, so it's still quite low pressure.  That reminds me, must pick up another 10 kg worth of weights.

And Ian.  It is possible to make cheese with a little one.  A lot of cheesemaking, as you know, is waiting time.  So, during the waiting (as apposed to weighting) you look after little one, then during the make times, you hand off.  It is best to concentrate on relatively simple, hard pressed cheeses  I think, as the more attention demanding cheeses (stiltons, etc) are probably not a great idea. 

Oh, and here's the cheese.  It weighed in at 1438g after the press, but before the brining.  That's very typical for the weights I've had before (which were roughly 1.3, 1.5, and 1.4 kg).  So, it's not retained more moisture than other makes.  Should be interesting when the final results are in.

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on September 03, 2011, 08:37:02 PM
Oh, and today was Father's Day in New Zealand and I was given a vaccuum bag sealer!  I've tried sealing up a piece of Dunlop to age that out longer.  Some air seems to keep sneaking back in when I go to do the final seal, but hopefully I'll improve on my technique.  Anyway, I'll probably seal up some of the caerphilly as well, once it's aged a few weeks.

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on September 03, 2011, 10:22:11 PM
Hmm,

Looking at the brining time, 20-24 hours seems a bit long for a roughly 3 lb cheese.  I think the brine solution in the book, however, is 18% and I have a saturated one.  Based on a rule of thumb guide I got from this site, brine time is calculated around 1 hour per lbs per inch of height, which would suggest something more like 8-9 hours brining.  The longer brine time isn't limited to this cheese (as caerphilly is often on the salty side), so I suspect it has to do with the use of an 18% solution.

I think I'll reduce my brine time to 12 hours, as all my other cheeses of this size that I've brined in saturated brine have been for 12 hours.  Any thoughts?

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: pliezar (Ian) on September 03, 2011, 10:41:45 PM
Jeff,

the length of time in the brine has been my only complaint with that book, that and sometimes the author left out how long to culture the milk.   I usually only brine for about 12 hours using the recipes from 200 cheeses.  I think you are on the right track with that.

Ian
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on September 03, 2011, 11:28:12 PM
Hi Ian,

I just double checked and indeed, it indicates an 18% brine solution (the tip on page 223).  And, the tip to make this is 1 part salt to 5 parts water, but it doesn't say if the parts are by volume or weight.  By weight, you would have 1 of 6 parts salt, which is 16.67%, which is close enough that I suspect that's what's intended.  That would be a much lower concentation than fully saturatred, which is somewhere around 25% I believe?  Also, the book lists 20 hours, not 24 (oops!).  Interestingly, 20 hours times 0.1667 gives us 3.33 (time multipled by concentration producing a "constant", then perhaps we can reverse calculate by constant divided by new concentation to get the new time).  That would mean 3.33 divided by 0.25, ending up with 13 1/3 hours.  Hmmm, there might be something to this, though I suspect my "salt hours" constant overly simplifies the process.

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on September 03, 2011, 11:34:40 PM
Ooops, I took the value for the wrong salt!  apparently, at 20 C, you can dissolve 36g of sodium chloride in 100 ml of water.  that gives a solution of 136g, and 36g salt in 136g solution, is just over 26%.  My 25% was from using the 34g for potassium chloride.  Anyway, the reason I'm mentioning this at all is because with the new values the new estimated brine time drops from 13 1/3 hours to about 12 1/2 hours, which is much closer to the time we've both indicated. 

- Jeff

P.S. Note also, if you used 20 * 18%, using the 18% soluation that the book tells you, then the above conversion would end up at about 13.6 hours, so an extra hour in the saturated brine.  This, of course, assuming this sort of equivalence "works".  Nothing in cheesemaking seems to be quite so straight forward though.  But as a rule of thumb this appears to be a workable rule.
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on September 04, 2011, 06:16:35 AM
Ok, out of the brine now.  After 12 hours in the brine it now weighs 1394g, so it's lost about 44g.  Now, the waiting begins.  Fortunately, this one doesn't take too long to sample.  But 3 weeks isn't tomorrow either. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: dthelmers on September 07, 2011, 02:04:44 AM
Jeff,
I've made 7 or 8 of these from the same book, using straight Flora Danica or MM100, and they've come out pretty good. The brining time makes for a rather salty cheese, but I'm supposing that it's true to style. I've heard that the miners used to eat this wrapped in a cabbage leaf, and I suppose that would mitigate the saltiness.
Dave in CT
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on September 07, 2011, 03:04:09 AM
Hi Dave,

Thanks for that.  I've made caerphilly 3 other times, but using a different make procedure where the curds are stacked, milled, then salted before pressing.  I quite like it, and I'm curious to see how this make compares in flavour.  I'll probably like it as well, just wonder if the taste will be the same or if they will seem like different cheeses. 

Hmmmm, I should have made one of the others as well. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on September 29, 2011, 04:23:02 AM
Hi,

Ok, having finished up a butterkase the other day it's time to test the caerphilly.  This one is about 26 days, so it's a young cheese but my previous experience with this is that it's quite good after three weeks.  I've followed a different make routine this time, so I'm curious to see the difference (a series of commercials from my youth is now haunting me).  Anyway, I put this in the cave a bit earlier than usual, and the rind is much softer and less developed than previous cheeses.  It's remained fairly easy to care for, with a few high salt wipe downs and the occasional brushing to remove early spots, but generlly well behaved.  It's a bit crumbly, which is good for this cheese.  It cut easily, and the internal knit looks good. 

Had a small taste when a piece of "crumbly" fell off.  It's got a tang, which is also promising.  Anyway, once it warms up a bit we'll have a proper taste and post a report.

Oh yes, and before I cut into it I weighed it at 1142g.  So a decent size from a 10 L make.

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on September 29, 2011, 04:34:40 AM
Ok, so the waiting for it to warm up got vetoed and we've had a taste.  Very nice.  Creamy texture, and slightly salty but certainly not overly so.  It has a tang to it, which my wife thinks is quite mild but I find it to be quite noticable (but not excessive).  It is most definately a different flavour profile to the Butterkase (which is good of course).  I'm very pleased with it.  It is a bit different from the other makes I've done, but it's hard to tell how much of that is due to my increasing experinece and improvement with basic skills and how much to the different make process. 

Anyway, I quite like this.  I'm planning on replacing the butterkase this weekend.  I'll probably make another caerphilly once this one is gone too.  Maybe try a buttermilk/flora danica mix?

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on September 30, 2011, 11:58:27 PM
Passed some of this one around at work.  Lots of people said they really liked it!  I'm pleased with it too.  I quite like caerphilly, well, the ones I've been making.  I've yet to actually try the real thing so I don't know if I'm close or not to the actual texture and taste.  Regardless, I'm pleased! :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: Boofer on October 01, 2011, 06:30:57 AM
Good work, Jeff. Looks like you're next in line to be the Caerphilly King [cue the trumpet section].  :)

It's okay at that young age, huh? Seems like it would mellow out a little more with a little bit more affinage.

I thought it curious to place an onion in the photo with your wheel. Was that for a size comparison or do you actually dive in to onions with your Caerphilly?

You're making me wonder if Caerphilly is in my future.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on October 01, 2011, 07:08:16 AM
Hi Boofer,

Yah, caerphilly is quite good young.  It does mellow if you age it out 3 months, but it's very flavourful at 3 - 4 weeks.  It's supposed to be crumbly, and this time I've got that nicely.  And it's salty too (not overly, but saltier than the average).  It also has an acidic tang to it, but again, not in an unpleasant way.  I find it goes well with strong flavours, like the olives and raw onion.  Usually, though, to be kind to my wife, I just have the cheese! :)

Personally, I tihnk this is a great cheese for anyone starting on hard cheeses.  It's a fairly straight forward make, quite forgiving, and you can taste it quick to find out how you're doing.  This time I followed a different make from what I've done before.  This one doesn't stack and mill the curds, but does up the temperature of the make by a few degrees C.  I'm going to look at combining the two makes to see how it goes.

Anyway, I really like it.  I'm quite pleased with a number of cheeses I've been doing.  This is one of them, as is the Butterkase and Dunlop. 

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: anutcanfly on October 01, 2011, 04:50:52 PM
Oops!! I didn't notice she used and 18% saturated brine!  After reading your posts I got a little worried as I brined mine for 20 hours, per 200 easy recipes ( used MA11).  Mine is 5 weeks old...I'm chewing on my second slice now...  That's really tasty!  It is very slightly salty, but not at all unpleasant as it goes well with the sharpness that has developed so far.  The paste is creamy, sharp, with a slight amount of crumble.  Maybe a third slice...  There went my diet...:P
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on October 01, 2011, 05:23:36 PM
Hi anutcanfly,

Sounds like we have pretty similar outcomes!  It is a nice, flavoursome cheese.  And, with the quick turn around, a good one to get into as an aid to aging some others that require more patience!

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: anutcanfly on October 01, 2011, 07:44:25 PM
Hi Jeff,

Yep me too.  I made it to my fingers out of the rest of my cheddar.  Wasn't sure about making a cheese that aged that quickly, but I'm very glad I did.  I'm very curious about how the different techniques and cultures you used affected the cheese. It's too bad we can't sample each others cheeses on this site! I guess it really doesn't matter if the cheese is true to style or not, if no one else knows how it should taste either!  I brought some of my first efforts to a BBQ and they were hit!  They didn't come out the way I had envisioned, so I was disappointed in them.  Having no idea what they were supposed to have been, everyone else loved them.

Happy thoughts,
Ann
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on October 01, 2011, 09:15:51 PM
Hi anutcanfly,

I know what you mean.  I've had some cheeses turn out quite different from what I expected, but some of my "tasters" chose it as their favorite.  In fact, when I made it again and it turned out the way I was trying to, they didn't like it as much, so there you go.  It's not that the second make was a poor cheese, but rather the first had a strong sharp flavour, but I was going for smooth and mild - my taster prefers stronger sharper cheeses, so when it worked the way I was trying to do it it was not a cheese for them, so no surprise in their choice.  Still, having it turn out the way you intend is very satisfying.  Being able to reproduce it is even better.  That's what I'm working on now, trying to develope consistancy.  I suppose it would help if I stopped tweaking things each make though. :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: Boofer on October 01, 2011, 10:52:52 PM
I guess it really doesn't matter if the cheese is true to style or not, if no one else knows how it should taste either!
Well, there is a way...     Caerphilly (http://www.igourmet.com/shoppe/prodview.aspx?prod=154S)

I was curious whether what I was struggling to make had any similarity to what the commercial product might be. Answer?: buy some and taste it for myself. Most of what I try to make is not available in my local supermarket, or a lot of times if it is, I have to take out a bank loan to buy it.

It can be amazing, surprising, eye-opening...or a rude awakening. All in all, still very useful to see whether you are on the right track.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on October 02, 2011, 12:26:59 AM
Hi Boofer.

Thanks for the close up.  That's encouraging as my recent make resembles that somewhat.  I find the descriptions on the net for most cheeses seem quite variable.  The one you linked to is the first time I've seen caerphilly referred to as buttery, for example.  For example, the Wikipedia entry (yes, the source of all truth and wisdom!) has the following "Caerphilly is a light-coloured (almost white), crumbly cheese made from cow's milk, and generally has a fat content of around 48%. It has a mild taste, with its most noticeable feature being a not unpleasant slightly sour tang".  This would be a fair description of what I've got now although I don't know about the fat content. 

From wiseGEEK, we get this (I'll copy more, as this has some details about 'aged' Caerphilly as well).
"Originally produced as a way for dairy farmers to efficiently expend their excess milk, Caerphilly cheese developed a following that soon made it profitable to produce on its own. The cheese became a great favorite of Welsh coal miners, who enjoyed chunks of Caerphilly for lunch. The rind of the cheese protected it from the miners’ dirty hands, and its saltiness supposedly replenished whatever was sweated out by the men laboring underground.

Caerphilly cheese is moist and pale, with a mild and salty paste. It is now produced in southwestern England as well as Wales. The English preference is for fresh Caerphilly cheese, eaten after only a few weeks (from two to eight) of aging. At this stage, the paste has a fresh, tangy flavor.

Traditionally aged, from twelve to twenty weeks, Caerphilly cheese has a milder, smoother flavor. The rind, which is natural, is thin, dry to the touch, and pale. Occasionally, the wheels, which are typically about 10 inches (25 cm) in diameter and weigh about 8 pounds (3.6 kg) are waxed. Waxed Caerphilly cheese tends to have a milder flavor than the cheese in its natural rind."

Again, the description of the young cheese, fresh, tangy, fits what I've got.  And the reference to the salt content for the minors fits with the slightly salty flavour as well. 

Anyway, as indicated, if you age it out it gets milder.  And that is probably where the buttery description may start to come into it.  It's a pretty versatile cheese though, as it's good when very young but also can be aged out to 5 months; possibly more.  I would defineately go with the stacked and milled version if I was going to age it out, as the idea seems to be to get a crumbly cheddar type cheese.


I've been looking around for caerphilly to try some.  There is a cheese company that makes it in New Zealand, but their description is of a cheese that is "made today and eaten tomorrow", that has a "milky flavour", etc.  This sounds like a very different cheese to what I generally read about.

Wow!  In my search for Cearphilly in new Zealand I just found a great article from 1907 in the national archives, which also includes a description of how to make it!  I'll type this out and post it shortly.
- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on October 02, 2011, 12:55:36 AM
Hi,

Just found this article, which may be of interest.  It's from a New Zealand newspaper in 1907 and it includes the details of how to make Caerphilly.  Also, it points out that this cheese went to market in just a fortnight (2 weeks).

- Jeff


---------- start of article ------------------------------
Caerphilly Cheese:
Marlborough Express, Volume XL, Issue 15, 18 January, 1907, page 4

This is one of those makes of cheese for which there is at the present time a steadily growing demand. So large, indeed, has the consumption of this cheese become (writes C.W. Walker-Tisdale in the Farmer and Stockbreeder) that we know of one firm of cheese merchants which is having Caerphilly specially manufactured in New Zealand, Holland, and Denmark, and sent to it in order to make the supply anything like equal to the demand.  It appears to me that the prospects for this cheese are better than for almost any other variety, and considering the number of Cheddar makers who are turning their attetntion to Caerphilly makes, the production of Cheddar cheese is likely to suffer in consequence.  The advantages of producing Caerphilly cheese as compared with Cheddar are: 1 Greater weight of cheese is obtained, as it is sold fresh when in a moist condition. 2. Being sold at the end of a fortnight after making, very little storage room is required.  3. The sale being effected so soon after making, money is quickly returned for the milk, which is not the case where Cheddar cheese is made, as this does not fully ripen and become ready for market in a less period than three months.  To manufacture this cheese new milk is taken, regulated to a temperature of 86 deg. Fahr., and rennetted in the proportion of one drachm of rennet to three gallons of milk (rennet being first diluted with cold water.)  In the course of about an hour the curd will be firm enough to manipulate, which can be tested by seeing if it breaks clean over the finger.  It may then be cut by using American knves (vertical and horizontal), and reduced to small cubes of about 1in in size.  When all the curd is reduced to this size the temperature of the whole contents of the vat should be raised to 86deg. Fahr., as by this time it will probably have fallen several degrees, so should be raised to the same termperature as that at which it was rennetted.  The curd must now be stirred by hand for about an hour, or until it becomes slightly firm in nature.  Some makers stir the curd for thirty minutes, allow it to pitch or settle in the bottom of the van (sic; I assume vat) for ten minutes, when it will be time to draw off the whey.  The whey is now drawn off, and the curd is placed in coarse cloths and placed on a table to drain.  To help the expulsion of whey the cloths are tightened now and again by taking three corners and using the fourth as a binder.  This drainage is allowed to go on for about an hour, during which time the cloths will have been tightened about five times.  This tightening to expel the whey must not be excessive, or the curd will get too dry.  The curd is now broken by squeezing it in the hand and out between the fingers, almost as a potato-masher works.  It is next placed in the tin molds, which are lined with cloths to recieve, and the curd pressed in with the hands.  The curd in the moulds is left for two hours before being put to press, during which time only small weights are put on the followers to keep the curd together.  The curd in the moulds may now be turned and put to press under just a small amount of pressure – say, 5cwt or 6cwt overnight.  In twelve hours’ time (next day) the cheeses are taken out, rubbed with salt, turned, and replaced in the mould with a fresh cloth, and put under a pressure of about 10cwt.  Twelve hours later this process is repeated, the total amount of salt used being half an ounce to each pound of cheese.  On the third morning from making the cheese may be taken out of the press and removed to the curing-room, which, if the cheese is to be ready for sale in two weeks’ time, should be at a temuerature (sic) of 65deg. to 20deg. (sic : 70?) Fahr.  If not required to be ripe so soon it must be kept at a lower temperature.  In some cases makers prefer to salt their cheese by brining them instead of rubbing with dry salt.  This may be done by having the cheeses partly immersed in brine for a couple of days or so, being careful to turn them frequently.  The common size of the Caerphilly cheese is 6lb, but they are made in sizes from 5lb to 10lb each.  In the case only of the larger cheeses the pressure may be increased to 15cwt instead of 10cwt for full pressure.

----------- end of article -----------------------------

For noting: cwt is a hundredweight, or “centum weight”.  In the UK (and here in New Zealand), 1 cwt = 112 pounds, while in the US it equals 100 lbs.

And a drachm is 1/8th of a fluid ounce according to "thefreedictionary.com"

I've also found reference to the traditional sizes being 10 inches in diameter and 8lbs. Assuming 10 inch diameters then 5cwt would produce roughly 7.13 psi, 6 cwt would give 8.56 psi, 10cwt = 14.27 psi, and 15cwt = 21.40 psi
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: darius on October 02, 2011, 01:46:52 PM
Interesting article, Jeff. Thanks for posting it.  :)

Now that I've figured out my problems are probably milk-quality related, I'm trying some other brands and using just the Caerphilly recipe for them all since it's a soon=ready make.
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: fied on October 02, 2011, 02:05:26 PM
The taste and texture of Caerphilly? It's a white cheese, slightly crumbly paste with small curds. Tastes are salty, sharp, fresh, buttery and can be flowery depending on the quality/locality of the milk, with no complexity of flavour. It's a bit dull and bland in taste after about 10 weeks, so most people here in the UK go for the younger cheese.

For myself, I prefer Lancashire or Wensleydale mainly because they have bigger curds and aren't quite so salty, but Caerphilly is relatively easy to make and makes a good lunch cheese with some spring onions and salad, some crusty bread and fresh, unsalted butter.
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: anutcanfly on October 02, 2011, 05:13:53 PM
Thanks everyone for the nice picture and info!  Glad for the heads up on aging.  I just assumed it would get sharper, not bland!  I'll still leave some in my cheese cave, to see what it does and when.  I try to make a point of tasting all the cheeses once a month so I can determine when they are peaking for my tastes.  Sometimes the cheese doesn't make back into the cave though.  :P  Like you Jeff, I have the habit tweaking recipes...  Being able to go online and read about everyone else's impressions and ideas, makes it possible to tailor a recipe to taste and get it right the first time!  I so love the internet!  I'm a newbie, so I'm behaving myself with cheese recipes for now, but I'm sure that habit will reassert itself before long!  A) 
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on October 02, 2011, 07:29:56 PM
Thanks for that fied!  I think the outcomes I'm getting fit with that, as I did age one of them out 3 months and it was much milder in flavour.  I've got both a Lancashire and Wenslydale in my cave as we speak.  I've got the Wenslydale waxed, and will try and age that quite some time I think.

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on October 02, 2011, 08:44:09 PM
Hi darius,

Finding a good source of milk can be tricky.  I'm lucky in that the brand I've settled on is fairly inexpensive.  Caerphilly is a good one to use as a test case as you could make a couple with different brands on different days and have them all ready at a time to compare in relatively short order.  Hope you find a good one soon.

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: Boofer on October 02, 2011, 10:02:56 PM
Like I said, Jeff, Caerphilly King!!  8)

Thanks for the extra effort & detail.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on October 02, 2011, 10:26:08 PM
LOL!  Hardly the king, but it has a nice ring to it.  I admit I do advocate it quite often, so perhaps the Caerphilly Crier is more appropriate? :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: Boofer on October 03, 2011, 12:52:35 AM
Hail to the Crier!   Eh...not the same ring to the ear.  ;)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on October 25, 2011, 07:21:05 AM
Well, just finished the last wee piece of this one today.  I really enjoyed it to the end.  It held the sharpness, though it was more rounded now then when first cut into.  So it was finished after 52 days.  Definately a cheese worth making if you're looking for something to eat while stretching ohter cheeses.

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: anutcanfly on October 25, 2011, 04:25:32 PM
Have you used goat milk for your caerphilly yet?  If so, how was it??
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: dthelmers on October 25, 2011, 04:56:57 PM
I made a Caerphilly with 1/2 goat's milk and 1/2 cow's milk; it was excellent, a memorable cheese with a lot of complexity.
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on October 25, 2011, 06:18:03 PM
Hi anut,

I haven't used goat milk.  darius has made a goat caerphilly and it sounded like a success.  And Dave's 50/50 mix sounds like a strong approval as well.  I don't have easy access to any goat's milk (other than UHT) at the moment.  I'm sure I can find some once I get the chance to properly search around though.

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: anutcanfly on October 25, 2011, 07:51:54 PM
Thanks for the feedback.  I'll try it...yum! It's amazing how fast a 4 pound cheese can disappear when it's tasty. 
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: OzzieCheese on October 30, 2011, 02:53:25 AM
Is there anyone out there ??  I thought this was a good a place to start as anywhere.   I've been floating in here for a while and thought it would a great time to join in the conversations and hopefully increase my knowledge and art in creating these wonderful things we call cheese.   Here are the log entries for my first Caerphilly and my 10th hard cheese.  Please feel free to join in and comment, emails are also welcome.

Friday 28th October
Today I’m making Caerphilly.  The recipe is nearly all from the ‘Making Artisan Cheese’ by Tim Smith, apart from one alteration.  That alteration is the combinations of the Flora Danica and the MO 030 culture.  The green Living Australia press is getting a rest today as I’m trying out the new Dutch press.
Caerphilly
8 litres of Milk
1/8 tsp of Calcium Chloride diluted in ¼ cup of de-chlorinated water.
the culture will be ½ dose of MO 030 and ½ dose of Flora Danica.
½ tablet of rennet diluted in ¼ cup of de-chlorinated water.
2 tabs of Cheese salt.
8:30 added Calcium Chloride and began heating the milk start temperature 17OC the target is 32OC and as this has a 1 degree temp change I’ll put the pots off at 3 degrees shy of 30 because as the bath will increase the temp to 33 without further addition of heat.
8:43 23OC.

As this is a three week cheese I’ll make it in the larger mould the same as the Manchego as it gives a better shape as I’m also not waxing this cheese either.
9:10 added the Cultures and temp hovering nicely @32.5OC. Needs 30 minutes to ripen,  Using the Flora Danica will acidify the milk nicely.
9:45 Added rennet.  Needs to rest for 40 minutes at 32OC and then check for a clean break.  If the clean break is not achieved wait for 5 minutes and retest.
 Getting the press ready and calculating the weights and distances.
Weights are .75Kg @ 60cm for 10 lbs (5Kg) and the 1.5Kgs @ 70cm.  The larger press weight is going to be necessary for the larger mould.
Press for 10 minutes @ 10 lbs.  Remove from the mould rub salt in the top and the bottom redress and press again with 10 lbs for 10 minutes.  Repeat and re-press @ 15Lbs for 20 minutes.  Unmould re-salt and redress and press again @ 15lbs for 16 hours.  On the press I am using .75kg @ 60cm and 1.5kg @ 70 cm which gives me 8Kg at the cheese.
I need to get the cheddaring process better as I ended up stacking little bits and not slabs but I still managed to get quite a lot of whey out of the slabs.
The redressing of the cheese and the resetting of press is so much easier now with the new press.
The pressing is going wonderfully well, except I feel the cheese is a little too open for my liking, I just would like to see the curds closed up a bit more.  Set for the 16 Hour press and I’ve set it at 1.5kg @ 70cm to close up the knit and I will relax it a bit tonight back to 60cm which will bring it back to 7.5Kg.
And to finish off the day a lovely Ricotta.  All in all a very successful day with a new cheese in the press.

 
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on October 30, 2011, 06:35:53 AM
Hi OzzieCheese,

Sounds like the make went very well.  If you're looking for some techniques to help improve consistency between makes, I would suggest learning about the "floc" method for determining when to cut the curds.  It's pretty simple.  You start timing when you add the rennet.  And, at this point, place a small plastic bowl on the milk (sterilised of course).  At this point the bowl will float freely.  Starting around 5 minutes or so, tap the bowl gently, it will probably still float freely.  Each minute, tap the bowl.  At some point, probably as you start to get close to around 10 minutes, the bowl will start to act like it's got it's feet in mud.  It will not float as freely.  When you notice this, start tapping every 30 seconds.  You'll notice the movement is thicker, like the bowl is on top of a milk shake rather than milk.  Eventually, it will just stick in one place, the milk will hold onto it like a cartoon glue patch.  That's the point where your milk has "gelled", which is the floculation point.  Check your watch and determine how much time has gone by since you added the rennet.  You want this time to be somewhere between 10 and 15 minutes.  If it's shorter, you're using too much rennet so cut back next time.  If it's longer, you could stand to use a bit more.  For simplicity, let's say our gell time was 10 minutes.

For caerphilly you then take this 10 minutes and multiply by 3 (30 minutes), because caerphilly has a 3x floc multiplier for a typical make.  That means the time to cut your curds is 30 minutes after adding the rennet, so in 20 minutes from your gell point!  Don't worry about a clean break or not, just cut at the 30 minutes post rennet time.

If you want a moister cheese, increase your floc multiplier (i.e. for a moister caerphilly, use a multiplier of 3.5x, so we would cut at 35 minutes post rennet, rather than 30; of course, had we used slightly less rennet, and had a floc time of 15 minutes, we would be looking at cutting at either 45 or 52.5 minutes for 3x and 3.5x) to get effectively the same result. 

I've been using this now for quite some time and it's really simple (takes longer to explain than to do).  It seems to work really well. 

Also, I find that I get a better curd set if I add my CaCl2 just before the rennet rather than at the start. 

Anyway, welcome to the site.  Don't forget to post a photo of your cheese, and to post your tasting notes when you finally cut into it.

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: OzzieCheese on October 31, 2011, 02:50:30 AM
Thanks for the 'Floc method' info.  I will use it in my next cheese.  All of the recipes I have, except this one now, don't reference this method.  I'm currently using Tim Smiths book as my recipe source and previously I have been using the 1 teaspoon of Liquid = 1 rennet tablet (and parts there of) but some of the recipes are confusing as they list 3/4 tsp of liquid rennet or 1/4 tablet and therefore using 3/4 tsp will 'floc' faster than 1/4 of a tablet.  Is there any way to confirm these measurements ?

-- Mal   
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on October 31, 2011, 03:12:46 AM
Hi Mal,

The floc method doesn't work well with books, where the author wants to just present a step by step.  I don't know why, because in the end, the floc method is quite straight forward.  Anyway, if you hunt around this site you'll find lots of information on it (search "floc" would be a good start).

As for the amount of rennet, again, the "cook book approach" that the books use doesn't really take into account that rennet comes in wildly different strengths.  I have a vegetarian rennet where I use 0.6 ml for a 10 L batch of cheese.  It's very strong stuff.  What you want to do is use the floc method to determine what amount of rennet you should use (if it flocs faster than 10 minutes, use less, longer than 15, use more, and keep adjusting from one make to the next until you're in the sweet spot).  Once you get a feel for how your rennet works with the milk you've got access to, you can just ignore the book when it comes to the amount of rennet to use. 

The books are great for much of the make information, but when it comes to the amount of rennet to use and the time to cut the curds, they make it sound much more constant than it really is.  Taking pH readings is the next step, but I'll leave that for those with the expertise to explain what that's all about.

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: OzzieCheese on October 31, 2011, 04:51:53 AM
Woot !
Cheesemaking is the perfect blend of precision and art and you can eat the proceeds.  A-floc-ing I will go and to see where this wonderful journey takes me.
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on October 31, 2011, 05:55:03 AM
Hi Mel,

Check out the excel workbook in this thread (not the ones in the first post but the one further down).  It's got a bunch of utilities I've put together to simplify things.  Just remember, a calculator is not a substitute for knowledge - it should just help you apply it. 

http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,8172.0.html (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,8172.0.html)

- Jeff

P.S. And this thread opens with a table of floc multipliers for different cheese types.  Note, these are not carved in stone, so you can adjust these up or down a bit to make moister or drier cheeses, until you get something that best suits your tastes. http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,8128.0.html (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,8128.0.html)
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: OzzieCheese on November 24, 2011, 03:26:15 AM
Just cut into my first Caerphilly and what a wonderful surprise.  I needed cheese for lunch today and It was nearly 4 weeks old so what better reason to open it up.  The paste was white and with a quite open texture I thought it would be closer (i'll post some photos later tonight).  It has sharpish flavour without being too tangy (confused I know  :o) and considering the salt I rubbed in whilst pressing was surprised how un-salty it was. It ended with a smooth creamy aftertaste and had a nice 1/4 inch hard rind.  This one won't last long and my next one will be a nice 10 litre batch.

--Mal
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on November 24, 2011, 03:57:27 AM
Hi Mal,

That sounds about right.  I suspect one could press a bit more vigorously to get a more closed interior as the pressing is a bit on the light side in this make.  Regardless, I quite like the results of this make procedure and use this cheese to help extend the life of ones that require more aging.  A nice tasty cheese that is ready in 3 weeks is a keeper in my books.  Looking forward to your photos.

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: anutcanfly on November 24, 2011, 05:39:45 PM
Good job Ozzie!  It's like christmas every time you crack a wheel for the first time.  :)

Hi Jeff,

After some serious munching I have come to the conclusion that Caerphilly is worth making for it's own sake, not just to keep your fingers off the other cheese!  I can't believe how fast the wheel I cracked disappeared!  :P
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on November 24, 2011, 08:16:04 PM
Hi anut,

I agree.  It is a good cheese in its own right.  The short time to enjoyment is just an added benefit, but it has its uses! 

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: OzzieCheese on November 25, 2011, 02:36:45 AM
A good cheese.... a Bloody excellent one.  Damn it been opened for three or so days and there is only 1/4 left.  Making another tomorrow, if I don'y I'll get lynched :)
Sorry photos still coming
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: OzzieCheese on November 25, 2011, 10:52:32 AM
All I have is pictures... the mice ( two legged genus) have left me with nothing but memories... It's gone . . . nothing left . . . The buggers ate the lot nearly 1/2 a kilo of cheese gone in a day . . . . not even crumbs. 

Ahhh well... its saturday tomorrow time to do another.    These are the images from wednesday
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: boothrf on November 25, 2011, 11:37:27 AM
Congratulations Mal, a very good looking cheese indeed!  :) Sounds like it tasted fantastic as well.

How are those cams coming along?

Bob
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on November 25, 2011, 04:38:58 PM
That's a great looking caerphilly Mal!  And the taste sounds like it was spot on.  You'll need to do something about those mice though (or make a bigger cheese!).  :)

- Jeff
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: OzzieCheese on November 26, 2011, 12:45:38 AM
Yes.. A bigger cheese and bloody big mouse traps hehehe.  Doing a 10 Litre one today. O0
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: Rizzo on April 13, 2014, 09:35:23 PM
This one I just made (recipe from 200 easy cheeses) ..looks nice but the proof of the pudding....... :)
Title: Re: 4th Caerphilly
Post by: JeffHamm on April 13, 2014, 10:23:49 PM
Very nice looking result.  Are those chives?   Don't forget to post your tasting notes when you try it.

- Jeff