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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Blue Mold (Penicillium roqueforti) Ripened => Topic started by: tnbquilt on June 08, 2013, 08:06:26 AM

Title: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: tnbquilt on June 08, 2013, 08:06:26 AM
I made two 4 gallon Stilton's last night. I read so many recipes that I decided to do them slightly differently to see how I liked it.

Cheese #1 I used 4 gallons of milk, 1/2 tsp Flora Danica, 1/4 tsp PR, 1 tablet of vege rennet. I did not cut the curd on this one, I ladled it into the colander. After pressing I sliced this curd into squares.

Cheese #2 I used 1/2 tsp of MA-4002 instead of the FD and I cut the curd on that one. I liked this process better, it drained easier. After pressing I tore this curd into pieces.

I asked about salt content the other day and most people responded with 2 tsp per gallon. After pressing my cheese I weighed my curd and calculated the salt content at 2.5% like Gianiclis Caldwell says to do and it came out almost exactly the same. Both cheeses were 4 gallon makes and cheese #1 weighed 58.1 oz which calculates out to 1.45 oz of salt which is 8.7 teaspoons. Cheese #2 weighed 52.7 oz which came out to be 1.31 oz of salt which is 7.86 tsp. Just in case anyone was wondering. One of my recipes called for 1 gallon of milk and 1 tablespoon of salt. I'm glad I didn't use that one.
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: jwalker on June 08, 2013, 09:18:58 AM
Just in case anyone was wondering. One of my recipes called for 1 gallon of milk and 1 tablespoon of salt. I'm glad I didn't use that one.

I guess it's a matter of taste , I've tried two tsp per gallon and 1 tbsp per gallon , I actually prefer the one with more salt , and I don't normally eat salt on anything , but that's just me.

I've also found that the PR seems to like a little more salt as well.

I like those cookers you use , do they hold 4 gallons each , and where did you get them , I would be interested in getting one myself.

Let us know how those turn out.

Cheers , Jim.
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: tnbquilt on June 08, 2013, 03:04:41 PM
They are 18 quart roasters. They make the best cheese vats. You can control the temperature so well, and they hold heat for long periods of time after you cut them off. I bought one of them at Target back around Christmas for $40. Then when I decided to buy another one they didn't have one at the stores around here so I ordered it off of the internet and it was $55. They are usually out in the department stores around Thanksgiving. I've seen them at Walmart and Sears too.

I have put 4 gallons of milk and 4 cups of cream in them, so that is 18 quarts.

Somebody else here on the forum posted some pictures with his in it once and I went out and got one right away. I was making cheese in a 5 gallon stainless pot by sitting it in the sink and adding hot water. That pot cost $50, so the price is about the same to get your own double wall electric cheese vat.

http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/bella-13425-roaster-oven-18-qt?ID=599250&cm_mmc=Google_DMA_Home_Electrics_PLA-_-PLA+Home+Brands+-+Electrics_PLA+-+Electrics+-+Bella+-+ship99-_-30622360916_-_-_mkwid_uohXCoDA (http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/bella-13425-roaster-oven-18-qt?ID=599250&cm_mmc=Google_DMA_Home_Electrics_PLA-_-PLA+Home+Brands+-+Electrics_PLA+-+Electrics+-+Bella+-+ship99-_-30622360916_-_-_mkwid_uohXCoDA)|d{device}_30622360916|-|uohXCoDA
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: Tiarella on June 09, 2013, 05:53:12 AM
Tammy, that roaster does look like a good option.  What is it lined with?  Enamel?  I wouldn't want some chemical non-stick layer because I avoid those.  They are on sale at that link you provided.... $39.99 until June 16th.  Four gallons would be nice!

Kathrin
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: jwalker on June 09, 2013, 07:52:55 AM
Thanks for the info and the link.

I was looking at one on Amazon and they were $20 more than Macys , the link you provided , that seems very reasonable.

So far I have been using an old enameled five gallon canner that used to belong to my grandmother , it works well , but is very thin and will burn on the bottom if I'm not real careful.

Cheers , Jim.
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: tnbquilt on June 09, 2013, 08:34:37 AM
They are enamel on the inside and the liner removes for washing, like a crock pot. I have two of them, a Nesco and a Bella. They work a little differently but you wouldn't know that if you weren't trying to use two of them at the same time. When heating the milk from 90 to 100 I have to set one of them on 225 and the other one on 200 because it heats faster. Heating milk slowly is so easy when all you have to do is turn it down.

When I first got mine I decided to cook a ham in it. Don't do that. It took me forever to scrub the black crusties off the inside corners of the pan so that it could be used for cheese again. I scrubbed it with a chore boy, and didn't damage the liner though.

I guess I could buy an extra liner, but I wouldn't bother, I just use it for a cheese vat.
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: Al Lewis on June 09, 2013, 10:33:48 AM
Looking great!  Should be interesting to see the differences.
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: tnbquilt on June 09, 2013, 06:47:04 PM
They smell great. It may be my imagination but I think that the one made with Flora Danica smells stronger than the other one. I couldn't decide if people added Flora Danica to the other culture, or just used it for the culture. I had one recipe that said MA 4000 and one that said Flora Danica so I tried both.
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: Tiarella on June 10, 2013, 06:42:06 PM
They are enamel on the inside and the liner removes for washing, like a crock pot. I have two of them, a Nesco and a Bella. They work a little differently but you wouldn't know that if you weren't trying to use two of them at the same time. When heating the milk from 90 to 100 I have to set one of them on 225 and the other one on 200 because it heats faster. Heating milk slowly is so easy when all you have to do is turn it down.

When I first got mine I decided to cook a ham in it. Don't do that. It took me forever to scrub the black crusties off the inside corners of the pan so that it could be used for cheese again. I scrubbed it with a chore boy, and didn't damage the liner though.

I guess I could buy an extra liner, but I wouldn't bother, I just use it for a cheese vat.

Tammy,  Can you tell me how you use these to get milk to 90 degrees?  Do you put it on low and watch your thermometer?  How long does it take approximately?  Do you ever have scalding?  Do you have to stir it very often while heating? I'm curious and tempted to get one....perhaps the 22 quart one looking ahead to bigger batches potentially.  I looked on Amazon too and there's an 22 qt Hamilton Beech for $48 that is tempting.
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: BobE102330 on June 10, 2013, 10:22:28 PM
It will be interesting to hear how your Stilton's compare.  I really like my Stiltons with Flora Danica.  Enough that I haven't tried any other starter. I find that the curds taste good in the first few days, while other starters tend to have little taste early.  However, my latest Caerphilly didn't work out so well, but the addition of FD was one of two changes I made, so I will have to go back and try that again. 
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: Schnecken Slayer on June 11, 2013, 02:35:58 AM
The cooker looks like a good option for larger batches.
The only downside is that everything from iTunes to cookers get 70% added to the price when you say you are from Australia.
I followed the link and then set location to Australia. Voila....

Bella 13425 Roaster Oven, 18 Qt.
 Web ID: 599250
3.8 / 5
8 reviews
1 Question & 0 Answers
Reg. USD 71.99
Sale USD 47.99
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: jwalker on June 11, 2013, 07:42:02 AM
I know what you mean about prices Bill , the same thing happens here in Canada , everything is much higher in price.

I am one of the lucky ones tho , I live right on the U.S./Canada border , I buy everything in the U.S. and have it shipped to a pickup point just across the border , I drive across and pick it up.

An extreme example is my Honey Extractor , it was $1600 anywhere in Canada , I got mine out of Montana for $500 , shipping to the border was only $50 , so a huge savings.

I guess it would be a long drive for you tho , plus some boat time...................... ;D

Cheers , Jim.
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: Tiarella on June 11, 2013, 09:42:03 AM
I know what you mean about prices Bill , the same thing happens here in Canada , everything is much higher in price.

I am one of the lucky ones tho , I live right on the U.S./Canada border , I buy everything in the U.S. and have it shipped to a pickup point just across the border , I drive across and pick it up.

An extreme example is my Honey Extractor , it was $1600 anywhere in Canada , I got mine out of Montana for $500 , shipping to the border was only $50 , so a huge savings.

I guess it would be a long drive for you tho , plus some boat time...................... ;D

Cheers , Jim.

Jim, Do you have to pay customs on everything? 
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: jwalker on June 12, 2013, 01:36:29 AM

Quote
Jim, Do you have to pay customs on everything?



No , just have to pay our BC taxes (12%) when coming through , if they're not too busy at the border.

Sometimes they just say "have a nice day" , if they don't figure the amount they will collect is worth the time to do the paperwork.

Anything made in the U.S.A. or Mexico is exempt under the North American Free Trade agreement , anything made outside of those countries , but bought in the U.S.A. , is subject to duty (up  to 20%) , as well as tax , but it is rarely enforced unless the dollar amount is fairly high.

Any Food is pretty much exempt from duty and tax , although they have limits on dairy products.

Alcohol and tobacco are strictly enforced and duty collected on anything over the personal exemption , which is a six pack of beer per person per trip.

Cheers , Jim.

Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: tnbquilt on June 14, 2013, 11:13:14 AM
I take my thermometer that is on a chord, the unit magnetizes to the refrigerator, and I loop the chord through the handle on the cabinet door so that the probe hangs straight down into the milk. I set the pot on 350 and it takes about 45 minutes to get 4 gallons of milk up to 90 degrees. I do stir it while heating, because the sides get hot faster than the center, but I don't stir it much. If it takes me 45 minutes to heat it up I usually go by and stir it about 4 times. When you get tot he part where you are heating it up to 102 or whatever, I set the control on 225 and then I write the temp on the dry erase board on my refrigerator, and set my timer for 5 minutes. Every 5 minutes I stir gently and check the temperature. IF it's heating too fast I can turn down to 200.

I love my miniature cheese vats. I didn't see that 22 qt one that you are talking about before now or I would have bought it.
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: tnbquilt on June 14, 2013, 11:17:08 AM
When I flipped my cheeses last night I had blue mold showing! It was exciting, but I forgot to take a picture. I will have to do that tonight
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: tnbquilt on June 22, 2013, 07:32:54 AM
My Stiltons are 2 weeks old now. The first picture is Cheese #2, the M 4002 culture and the one that I cut the curd, but later I tore the curd apart by hand instead of cutting it with a knife. The other two pictures are cheese #1 which I did not cut the curd, I ladled it into the cheese cloth lined strainer. I used Flora Danica on it, and later, I used the knife to cut it into chunks.

Cheese #2 is dryer on the outside, but growing blue and white molds.

Cheese #1 is moister, and last weekend I used a brush to take off the extra undesirable molds on the top and bottom. Now, those spots that did have that other mold on them have now turned red.

Should I scrub off the red mold or leave it on there?
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: tnbquilt on June 22, 2013, 07:36:55 AM
As a side note, I am throughly enjoying watching these two cheeses develop. I have only made hard cheeses without a rind up until this year. I washed a Swiss and a couple of Gruyere's this year and I liked playing with the cheese everyday! I get these out and flip them and look at the nice ugliness that is starting to grow and think I wonder it tastes like?

My recipe says to poke holes in the cheese after 3 to 5 weeks. I assume 4 weeks would be logical?
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: BobE102330 on June 23, 2013, 05:17:34 PM
I think I'd brush that red off.  A little bit isn't a big deal, but you don't want it taking over.  It looks like it's going to town.  You could also try to lower the humidity a bit.  Just a few points separates where PR likes to grow and where linens dominates. 

Piercing at 4 weeks is reasonable. 
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: tnbquilt on June 24, 2013, 11:14:14 AM
I brushed the red off last night. Well, I got most of it. When I went to get it out to brush it off, it was actually covered with whit mold, and I thought about leaving it, but I didn't, I brushed it all off. Hopefully the white will take over again.
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: jwalker on June 25, 2013, 08:27:49 AM
I brushed the red off last night. Well, I got most of it. When I went to get it out to brush it off, it was actually covered with whit mold, and I thought about leaving it, but I didn't, I brushed it all off. Hopefully the white will take over again.

All my blue type cheeses kept getting contaminated with white mold as well , I am assuming it is PC.

It seems to cause them to ripen faster and get very soft and creamy , like a Cambozola , which I like anyway.

But my last Stilton , I wanted a true Blue Stilton , a little firmer , so I have it wrapped and aging in a completely different fridge , I will unwrap it soon and post a pic of how it is going.

So you may want to remove the white if you want a true Blue Stilton , just from my experience.

Good luck with it.

Cheers , Jim.
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: tnbquilt on June 29, 2013, 12:15:10 PM
I didn't realize that the white was not normal, I actually thought it was what was supposed to happen. Oh well, I will try it again in a couple of weeks and I will try to keep the white down better. I can brush it off of this one as well, but I will be more careful with the next one.
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: tnbquilt on June 29, 2013, 02:35:22 PM
I've been reading the posts about Stilton today. It seems that some people wash them to keep the white from developing. I didn't do that, because I didn't realize I was supposed to. I also see that I am supposed to move it to a colder temperature after 4 weeks to let it age slower for the next 4 weeks.

My Mary Karlin recipe does say to wash it, but the Caldwell book does not. My Caldwell book says to move it to a colder temperature but my Mary Karlin book does not.

I am going to make another one in a week or two to have at my daughter's engagement party September 28th. I am going to use pasteurized milk, and I want to get all the steps right on that one. This one is going to be a great experiment of things I didn't know I was supposed to do.

I scrubbed this one a pretty good bit to get the white under control, but it's not going anywhere at this point.
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: jwalker on June 29, 2013, 09:25:46 PM
Actually , I think the PC mold makes them even better.

That's just me tho.

Mmmmmmmm.......................
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: tnbquilt on June 30, 2013, 08:22:24 AM
I hope the white makes them better, because I have some!

I have a small refrigerator that used to be the cheese cave. I plugged it back up and set it to lower. Right now it's 44 degrees like Caldwell's book says. I repoked holes in both of the cheeses and wrapped one in cheese paper and I put the other one in a mini cave with a wet sponge to keep the moisture up. I put both of them in the colder environment.

Now we wait for another month.
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: Spellogue on June 30, 2013, 11:36:31 AM
The white could be PC, but I tend to think it is more likely a geotrichum.  I like a little white for complexity of flavor too.  And a hint of red.  I'm still unsure if the red is a B.L. strain or some type of mold. Does anyone know?  On my blues the red seems more of a stain than a fuzzy substance. 

I have a blue that I just pierced and it seems the rind is drier than it should be.  I'm thinking of washing it, but I don't want to encourage BL.  Are folks recommending washing blues with 3% brine, or is a higher salinity better?
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: Al Lewis on June 30, 2013, 02:11:51 PM
Here's a photo of my 6 pound Stilton I did a while back.  The rind was almost dry to the touch.  The colors in the rind were amazing.  Only thing I would worry about are "furry" molds.  Especially gray ones.  Could be mildew.
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: tnbquilt on June 30, 2013, 07:44:58 PM
nice picture, I like the colors.

My mold is not fuzzy, just powdery. My cheese is also very dry, despite the mini cave where I have tried to keep the humidity up.

I still have high hopes.
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: jwalker on July 01, 2013, 09:11:43 AM
I think yours is just fine , in fact it looks just like mine did.

I don't brush or wash my blues at all , so far have just let them age in the cave until they start to soften , then wrap in cheese paper and give them another month or so in regular fridge.

They have all been great so far , I'm sure yours will too.
Title: Re: My 1st (2) Stiltons
Post by: tnbquilt on July 27, 2013, 05:02:23 PM
Cheese #1 on the left, not much blue, cheese #2 on the right. #1 is salty and tastes pretty good, but not good. #2 is dry and tastes like bitter salt. #2 is so bad I almost threw it away, but I put it back in the cave anyway. #1 I wrapped in cheese paper, and #2 I had in a mini cave. #2 dried out really bad, but it grew blue veins. #1 was moist and after it warmed up it tasted ok, but not good.

I bought a Stilton at the store to taste with my cheese and it was horrible, nothing but salt. No flavor, but salt. My friend who loves Stilton, had never had one that was as bad as that. We threw it away.

I put both of mine back in the cave. I suspect that #2 will go in the trash eventually, but I think that #1 will age out a little nicer.

I tasted a blue cheese at the cheese festival last year that was wonderful. It was creamy and moist. It was not pressed, and you just stuck your spoon inside of it and got a sample. It tasted of bleu cheese, and butter, and creamy milk. I wonder what style that was. I lost the card from the people who made it.

Mine was horrible compared to that. I am going to try again, but if it doesn't improve I will give up pretty quick.