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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Other => Topic started by: knipknup on September 20, 2012, 11:31:20 AM

Title: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: knipknup on September 20, 2012, 11:31:20 AM
I made this one 2 months ago from the 200 easy recipe but using 2% cows milk.

It is mild and creamy with a nice red wine finish.  Very nice.  Vac'd it to age this morning.
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: leboy001 on September 20, 2012, 07:00:41 PM
NICE!!!! i have a Port Cheddar from the same book aging in my cave. I hope it is as good as yours
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: hoeklijn on September 21, 2012, 01:25:08 AM
Ooh, when I see this, I know I definitely have to make Cabra al Vino again. I love this kind of cheeses. A cheese for you for this result.
What kind of wine did you use and how long did you soak it?
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: knipknup on September 21, 2012, 07:04:19 AM
I used a Cabernet that I had. Nothing special. A DIY dry with good body. I was tempted to use a bottle I made but it is on the sweet side and I didn't want sweet. My personal preference only. The recipe is general and only suggests a Spanish red. I soaked for 24 hrs, then dried 12, then soaked another 24.
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: iratherfly on September 21, 2012, 05:08:20 PM
I have seen the cabra al vino recipe in the book but never one for vaca... I supposed you used the same recipe and just switched the milk?

I made quite a few of these and they always get gobbled up by everyone because they are mild yet interesting.  Instead of her recipe, I use a classic Tomme recipe. After the cheese is salted or brined and dried for 3 days, I make a brine of Syrah or Petit-Syrah wine (though Rioja, Carmenere, and other wines may work well too. I go for something dry and not tanic). I dip it in the brine for about 30 min per side, take it out and dry it for 2-3 days in the cave. Repeat a 2nd dunk and dry again, then I do it for the third time. After it is dry from the last dunking (about day 9-12) I vacuum and age in cave for 60 days. It's very clean smooth flavor and the wine blends in the flavor making it feel almost Gruyere-like. All these dunkings give it a nice red exterior but the wine does not effect the coloration inside at all. It's also a great melter for sandwiches and just a fun casual cheese. I love this style and there is a lot to experiment with!
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: knipknup on September 21, 2012, 05:36:37 PM
Yes, that is beautiful!  Is it really purple or is that my display?  My was more of a black-red.  I did just use the recipe in the book but used 2% cow milk.
I'm surprised you get much flavor from only around 3 hours of soaking total - unless I misunderstood your process.

Thanks for sharing your picture.  I will definitely do this one again.
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: iratherfly on September 21, 2012, 08:14:19 PM
It is kind of purple-ish and this was summer milk so it was quite yellow inside too. The purple is probably because of the 3 dunkings and the dark color of Syrah. (It always seems like it's not taking enough color at all when I dunk it, dry it, vacuum and age it. You only realize the color when you see it in contrast to the paste when you crack the cheese open and go "whoa, this rind is a lot bolder I thought!").

I get the flavor first and foremost from the milk and lactic cultures.  The Tomme itself must be good.  As far as the wine goes, a little goes a long way but instead of a single long dunking, I do it in 3 short dunk-dry sessions so it's painting 3 layers of wine which is more intense but still thin. This is also why the color is more intense.  But you don't want to over-do it. The cheese shouldn't taste like wine. The wine just sort of augment its qualities, not overwhelm them. Know what I mean? Keep this thread posted on your next one!  Try the Tomme formula, I think it will work better -especially with cow's milk.
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: Shazah on September 21, 2012, 10:40:55 PM
That looks so delicious.

Another cheese you have inspired me to try.
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: Boofer on September 22, 2012, 01:33:53 AM
I use a classic Tomme recipe.
Gorgeous cheese! Is your recipe close to Pav's?

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: hoeklijn on September 22, 2012, 04:02:48 AM
I think the color of the rind will vary with the milk you use, time you soak and the wine you use. The Cabra here is made with goat milk, soaked also for 2x24 hours in a dry Spanish wine and developed a dark red-brown rind. Because it is coated with a transparant coating it's a very attractive cheese. When I cut it it was about 4 months old with a smooth goat flavour and a red wine aftertaste.
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: iratherfly on September 22, 2012, 01:58:07 PM
I use a classic Tomme recipe.
Gorgeous cheese! Is your recipe close to Pav's?

-Boofer-
Yes, I think I made it with a shorter flocculation (x3.5?) but that's about it. The rest is all about figuring out the dunk regiment. Once it's in the vaccum this is the easiest cheese in the world to age obviously. The one in the photo is 5 months, but I ate its sister at 2 months and it was already very good. Not a huge change from 2 to 5 months but it did prove to me that this cheese is very stable for long time with this recipe. It's really easy to make.
I think the color of the rind will vary with the milk you use, time you soak and the wine you use. The Cabra here is made with goat milk, soaked also for 2x24 hours in a dry Spanish wine and developed a dark red-brown rind. Because it is coated with a transparant coating it's a very attractive cheese. When I cut it it was about 4 months old with a smooth goat flavour and a red wine aftertaste.
Not just the milk and soak time but also how pressed/dense it is. The one in your photo is beautiful. The version I see sold in the US is not as nice; has straight corners (Looks like they make them in Manchego moulds) and the paste is smooth and buttery but has no eyes. Mind you, knipknup and myself were converting the cabra (goat in Spanish) recipe to Vaca (cow in Spanish).  I actually just called mine at the time "Tomme de Syrah" because that's what it was, Tomme dunked in Syrah wine.

The recipes in 200 Easy Cheesemaking Recipes are nice and stable but they are often not true to the original. At time it seems like she copies her own recipes and make one small change to give the cheese a new name but it doesn't really mimic the original thing.  If you convert Pav's Tomme recipe to goat and dunk it my way, you will get something very close to the Spanish original.
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: knipknup on September 22, 2012, 11:54:38 PM
Where do I find Pav's recipe? I'm entrigued.
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: hoeklijn on September 23, 2012, 03:57:31 AM
The one in your photo is beautiful.

Thanks Yoav. I'm still searching to find the original here somewhere so I can compare. Would be quite interesting to see if I can get closwer to the original with an other recipe. I think I have to reconsider my list of cheeses to make to next months, because I also had Valencay-like cheeses on the list and I'm working towards Christmas...
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: iratherfly on September 23, 2012, 05:28:23 PM
Where do I find Pav's recipe? I'm entrigued.

Here it is:
http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1591.0.html (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1591.0.html)

Thanks Yoav. I'm still searching to find the original here somewhere so I can compare. Would be quite interesting to see if I can get closwer to the original with an other recipe. I think I have to reconsider my list of cheeses to make to next months, because I also had Valencay-like cheeses on the list and I'm working towards Christmas...

hoeklijn, let me tell you that yours look more appetizing than the original. It's sort of mild and have very smooth texture with no eyes. There is no run of the red color from the rind to the paste and the rind it more pale in the original too.  You always seem to take the time to make sure your cheeses look proper. I appreciate this. The look, finish, correct form factor - I care about these things a lot.

Valen├žay is easy!!  You have plenty of time to make it until Christmas, though I suspect it's a sprint-summer cheese; the goats may be dry by the time you need to make it for Christmas...
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: Tiarella on October 09, 2012, 10:31:58 PM
I'm making one of these now but I used Tim Smith's recipe with a little bit of Mary Karlin's advice.  I was shocked to see the difference in pressing weights.  Tim says 20 pounds, Mary says 5 pounds.

Iratherfly, when you say you make a brine with wine does that mean you are adding salt to the wine?
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: iratherfly on October 10, 2012, 09:58:16 PM
I don't like Tim Smith's recipes, I find them very inaccurate.

I make it like a classic Tomme and it is pressed under its own weight so Mary's advice of 5 Lbs is great if you go that route.

I add salt and calcium to the wine. I don't do it in order to salt the cheese - I do it to prevent the cheese I just brined having its salt running out to the wine and turn un-salty. (The principle of chemical equilibrium).  I don't know if you have followed my post on the subject, but I brine in the wine for short period, dry the cheese, brine it again, dry the cheese, brine it for a third time, dry it again and then vacuum it. It's 3 nice layers that intensify the color and wine qualities.
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: linuxboy on October 10, 2012, 10:46:04 PM
In Spain, the cabra al vino is done as a basic tomme, aged out a tad, and then the wine is soaked in for the rind color, and a bit of aroma and some flavor nuances. It's a very old and traditional approach. I age the wheel longer than you, 3-5 weeks, before doing the wine soak, and I also raise pH of the wine to 4.8. My goal is exactly the same though: nuance... I want the cheese to shine through, not the wine. My tommes are usually classic 3x floc, but depends on the milk. And I find same as you, the final cheese is a remarkably close clone.
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: iratherfly on October 11, 2012, 12:59:13 AM
I also do 3x floc but mind you, the cheese I am talking about is cow and not goat. I divide this to 3 short soakings so I get the wine in 3 small coats instead of later doing 1 heavier coat. It is a hinted aroma and flavor. The milk and cheese are still the center (you know how I feel about adding flavorants to cheese).
What you are saying though makes a lot of sense to me when I think of how dry the Cabra al Vino is

My Syrah wine brine by the way is 5pH so I am not too far.
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: linuxboy on October 11, 2012, 01:03:33 AM
Eh, goat, cow, to a hungry peasant, it's all the same ;).
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: iratherfly on October 13, 2012, 03:15:52 AM
 O0
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: Tiarella on December 03, 2012, 04:50:24 PM
I don't like Tim Smith's recipes, I find them very inaccurate.

I make it like a classic Tomme and it is pressed under its own weight so Mary's advice of 5 Lbs is great if you go that route.

I add salt and calcium to the wine. I don't do it in order to salt the cheese - I do it to prevent the cheese I just brined having its salt running out to the wine and turn un-salty. (The principle of chemical equilibrium).  I don't know if you have followed my post on the subject, but I brine in the wine for short period, dry the cheese, brine it again, dry the cheese, brine it for a third time, dry it again and then vacuum it. It's 3 nice layers that intensify the color and wine qualities.

Yoav,  you say the salt in the brine is to prevent salt migration from cheese to brine but when does the salt get added to the cheese???  is there a salt brine soak right after pressing?
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: iratherfly on December 17, 2012, 04:29:42 AM
Yes. First you properly brine the cheese and let it dry for 2-3 days so the cheese will be salty. Then you do a wine soak and put salt in the wine so it won't dilute your salted cheese. Dry it for another 2-3 days. Do one last wine soak. (you can preserve and reuse the same wine soak). Dry it again for 2-3 days. Now (day 9-12 or so) it is ready for vacuum pack.
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: knipknup on May 18, 2014, 10:43:43 PM
I pulled this one out of the cave today at two years old. It is mild and creamy with that slight wine taste.
I cut it in half and smoked a half for fun.
I attached a pic. The other is a muenster that is 18 months old. It was sharp but tasty.
Title: Re: Vaca al Vino - result
Post by: JeffHamm on May 19, 2014, 12:49:02 AM
A cheese to you for such a nice looking outcome!  (and for the patience to wait it out).  I've never heard of an 18 month old muenster.  Nice to hear it ages well.  Must try my hands at another one.

- Jeff