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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Washed Rind & Smear Ripened => Topic started by: Boofer on March 16, 2013, 11:44:43 AM

Title: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on March 16, 2013, 11:44:43 AM
Main Entry:      magnifique
Part of Speech:      adj
Definition:      wonderful, splendid, glorious, excellent
Etymology:      French
Dictionary.com's 21st Century Lexicon
Copyright © 2003-2013 Dictionary.com, LLC


Before I began this make, I sampled a wedge of Pont l’Eveque that I was fortunate to buy at the same time and place that I bought the milk and cream. This gives me a clearer sense of what track I should be following. I took note of the rind color and texture. I tasted the cheese very simply with fresh crusty bread. The taste was creamy and had no acidic bite, but was sweet with adequate saltiness. The texture was soft but firm and not oozy but a little sticky as it warmed to room temperature. The cheese was spreadable at room temperature and the rind was enjoyable as well.

"Pont l'Eveque is a French cheese. It is believed that its name is derived from 'Norman abbey' in Normandy, France where it was mainly produced during the 12th century. The cheese is also known as Moyaux cheese.
Probably one of the oldest cheeses of that area, Pont l'Eveque was called as d'Angelot during ancient days. Made from cow's milk, this cheese is manufactured throughout the year. Small, square shaped Pont l'Eveque is of pale yellow color while its rind has white-orange color.
A soft and very rich cheese with creamy and full-bodied flavor, tastes best when eaten at room temperature. It is an excellent dessert cheese, which goes well with a robust wine.
·   Made from cow's milk
·   Country of origin: France
·   Region: Basse-Normandie
·   Alternative spellings: Moyaux cheese
·   Type: soft
·   Fat content: 45%
·   Texture: creamy
·   Rind: washed
·   Color: pale yellow"

===============================================================
 "Pont-l'évêque - Named after the village in Normandy where it supposedly first appeared, this cheese is one of the most popular in France. An old cheese, it dates from at least the 12th century, when it was made by monks; it was once known as 'white meat' as it was eaten instead of meat on fasting days .. Pont l'évêque is a cow's milk cheese, with a full, rich, sweet, slightly tangy flavour profile and a thin brownish rind; it is very similar to livarot, another washed-rind......"

"Pont-l'Évêque is a French cheese, originally manufactured in the area around thecommune of Pont-l'Évêque, between Deauville and Lisieux in the Calvados départementof Basse-Normandie. It is probably the oldest Norman cheese still in production.[1]
Pont-l'Évêque is an uncooked, unpressed cow's-milk cheese, square in shape usually at around 10 cm square and around 3 cm high, weighing 400g. The central pâte is soft, creamy pale yellow in colour with a smooth, fine texture and has a pungent aroma. This is surrounded by a washed rind that is white with a gentle orange-brown coloration. The whole is soft when pressed but lacks elasticity. It is generally ranked alongside Brie,Camembert, and Roquefort as one of the most popular cheeses in France."

This make is based very roughly on member fied’s guidelines.

make list
5% washing brine (to be started after dry-salting)initial milk pH: 6.62
rennet pH: 6.50
draining/moulding pH: 6.45

Heated milk and cream to 88F.

March 13 4:00PM
Added cultures, let rehydrate for 5 minutes.
Stirred cultures into milk.

4:15PM
Stirred in CACL
Let sit until .1 delta.

4:30PM
At pH 6.50 and 85F, stirred in rennet.

4:50PM
Flocculation occurs at 20 minutes.
Using a 5x factor, time to cut is at 6:10PM (100 minutes).

6:10PM
Made crosshatch vertical cuts, but no horizontal cuts.
Rested curds for 10 minutes.
Scooped curd into Plyban-lined brick mould.
Allowing for settling and pulling up Plyban on sides, the brick mould was filled.
One Camembert mould was pressed into service to accommodate extra curd, and it too was filled.

My intent is to create two cheese styles with this make. The two square cheeses will be the Pont l’Eveque. The Cam-moulded cheese will be dosed with Blue Castello cheese slurry.

6:30PM
Curds to moulds was complete.
Flipped moulds every 1-2 hours.

March 14 7:00PM
Moved moulds to minicaves and into cave network.

March 15 7:00AM
Flipped, dried – looking good, firm, but still needs to lose whey. Poured off several tablespoons of collected whey.

10:00AM
Reset the temperature controller from 50F to 58F. Ambient garage temp: 56F.

6:00PM
Flipped, dried – poured off several tablespoons of collected whey.

March 16 6:00AM
Flipped, dried – again removed collected whey. Cave now registers 57F.

8:00PM
Flipped, dried – poured off collected whey.

I edited this to include a document I had found sometime ago describing "washed-rind vs. smear-ripened".

-Boofer-

Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Tiarella on March 17, 2013, 06:20:53 AM
Hi Boofer!  Thanks for the introduction to a new cheese!  The versions you made are a lot thicker....are you going to slice them into shorter pieces?  Is the SR3 a mild mix?  For some reason I thought that one created a stronger stinky flavor bit here you are using it in the make of a mild tasting cheese.  I may have to reconsider it now.

Looking forward to photos of this make as you coddle it into magnificence.  :D
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on March 17, 2013, 10:06:34 AM
Hi Kathrin. The cheeses you see are still very young and still losing whey and shrinking. I am hopeful that once they have completed that part of the process and have been salted that they will assume the form factor that the style requires. No, I will not be slicing them further. As it is, the one cut side will be a challenge to heal properly (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,6444.msg45942.html#msg45942).

The SR3 is the only linens I had on hand except for two varieties in my PLA and I didn't want the extra baggage that the PLA brought. With a little care and control of the rind maintenance it should be okay. I just want the barest hint of reddish color under the spreading Geo. Sounds somewhat lyrical (http://www.treehugger.com/lawn-garden/under-a-spreading-chestnut-tree.html), huh? :P

With the morning flip & dry-down, all three cheeses are looking good. They're still draining a bit of whey. Tomorrow is the fifth day, when they are supposed to be salted, but I want to make sure that they get the time they need to properly dispense with the whey...and shrink.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: bbracken677 on March 17, 2013, 10:54:10 AM
Awesome make!  I am tempted to give something like this a try. Does this taste anything like a taleggio?

I want to make another bloomy type, but want to try something other than a camembert...I like the look of the rind in the pics you provided. A hint of reddish with the white geo covering. The paste looks really nice also.

 I picture a rich, creamy mouthfeel and flavor combined with a hint of mushrooms and loamy earth.
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Tiarella on March 17, 2013, 02:49:47 PM
Hi Kathrin. The cheeses you see are still very young and still losing whey and shrinking. I am hopeful that once they have completed that part of the process and have been salted that they will assume the form factor that the style requires. No, I will not be slicing them further. As it is, the one cut side will be a challenge to heal properly ([url]http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,6444.msg45942.html#msg45942[/url]).

The SR3 is the only linens I had on hand except for two varieties in my PLA and I didn't want the extra baggage that the PLA brought. With a little care and control of the rind maintenance it should be okay. I just want the barest hint of reddish color under the spreading Geo. Sounds somewhat lyrical ([url]http://www.treehugger.com/lawn-garden/under-a-spreading-chestnut-tree.html[/url]), huh? :P

With the morning flip & dry-down, all three cheeses are looking good. They're still draining a bit of whey. Tomorrow is the fifth day, when they are supposed to be salted, but I want to make sure that they get the time they need to properly dispense with the whey...and shrink.

-Boofer-


I hope they lose enough whey.  I've had trouble with this part of make during the dry air of our wood heating season.  My fingers are crossed for you!   ;D
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on March 17, 2013, 04:33:10 PM
Awesome make!  I am tempted to give something like this a try. Does this taste anything like a taleggio?

I want to make another bloomy type, but want to try something other than a camembert...I like the look of the rind in the pics you provided. A hint of reddish with the white geo covering. The paste looks really nice also.

 I picture a rich, creamy mouthfeel and flavor combined with a hint of mushrooms and loamy earth.
Looking for something similar to this (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,7517.msg57925.html#msg57925).

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: hoeklijn on March 18, 2013, 02:29:04 AM
Thanks Boofer, now this one is REALLY on my wishlist....
A cheese to you!
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on March 18, 2013, 08:18:47 AM
Thanks for the cheese, Herman.

When I went to flip the cheeses and dry them last night, I detected some Geo coming into play. :)

I decided to go ahead and salt them. That was last night. This morning they have given up a bit more whey and were "sweating" just a bit. I flipped them but did not dry them or the minicave, sticking to the recipe instructions to let them sit in their brine for a day.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Tiarella on March 18, 2013, 10:17:28 AM
photos, photos, photos, photos, PHOTOS, PHOTOS, PHOTOS  (imagine drumming and chanting from the distant coastline; that'd be the east coast)

(What's it take to get some satisfaction around here, hey?)   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on March 18, 2013, 11:03:30 AM
You know, I had the impression of an asteroid speeding past earth just then. :P

If you look at that big-font word "Photos" it looks like the name of one of Jupiter's moons, especially if you squint and turn your head just this way....

Wait just a minute and I'll have a picture of a pile of salt in the bowl I used. That oughta hold her!  ;)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Tiarella on March 18, 2013, 01:26:42 PM
You know, I had the impression of an asteroid speeding past earth just then. :P

If you look at that big-font word "Photos" it looks like the name of one of Jupiter's moons, especially if you squint and turn your head just this way....

Wait just a minute and I'll have a picture of a pile of salt in the bowl I used. That oughta hold her!  ;)

-Boofer-

Ooh, sorry.  Hope that didn't hurt your eyes!   :o   I wanted to see how much your little cheesies had drained, whether they'd gotten as thin as that one you bought to taste.  Enquiring minds.....and all that.  I'm distracted.....thinking of how on earth I could make a lavender bloom encrusted hard cheese.  I guess I'll go for a Caerphilly perhaps, or maybe a white bloomy. Sorry, in my distraction I wrote too loud big.  I'll do 40 "Hail Cheeses" to show penitence.   :-[
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on March 18, 2013, 01:58:17 PM
 :D

Yes, ma'am, I'll have those shrinkage photos for you as soon as they're out of the developing solution, or after they've been brined for awhile. It's all about the pics.

I'm distracted.....thinking of how on earth I could make a lavender bloom encrusted hard cheese.
Lay back there on the couch and tell me more about this dream of yours.... 8)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Tiarella on March 18, 2013, 02:29:29 PM
:D

I'm distracted.....thinking of how on earth I could make a lavender bloom encrusted hard cheese.
Lay back there on the couch and tell me more about this dream of yours.... 8)

-Boofer-

(reclining with a deep, sorrowful sigh) "Well, it all started when I was a little girl and loved finger painting using lavender colored paint."

Nope!  Actually it was just today while talking to another cheesemaker and telling her about the lavender and espresso (or was it coffee?) bean cheese that some creamery makes.  I think it's called Lavender Buzz or something.  Anyway.....mentioning it made me want to create something like that.  I've since evolved my dream to maybe even be a PC with a Star Anise in the middle of the cheese and then encrusting the edges with lavender flowers.  Wondering about a quick heat treat of the dried flowers to remove any mold hitchhikers.  (wonder on temp and time for that) and wondering how to make the dried lavender buds stick to the sides.  Do I wait for some bloom?  Or use honey?  Would the honey mess up the PC?  My mind is SO busy today.   ;D  Plus as you know....I'm way out there with wild ideas.  I'd be better behaved if I dulled my imagination by watching television but I can't bring myself to do that.  Hope it doesn't cause too much suffering for you to see my whacko ideas in print and then in photos.  sigh.  :o
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on March 18, 2013, 09:48:23 PM
'tis a breath of fresh air, Kathrin. Thank you for your humor and inspired ideas.

Okay, still working on the salting/brining shrinking form factor, but I did snap some pics this afternoon upon my return from the Salt Factory.

Probably tomorrow I'll mop off the moisture and move towards drying the cheeses a bit. At that point I can start thinking about rind development. As I said earlier, the Geo had started to show its cards. With a little encouragement, I'm sure it will reappear with its friend, B. linens.

Today when I extracted the minicaves from the cave network and removed the lids...OMG!! What a wonderful aroma. Hey, maybe that's why they call it "Aroma B"!

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Mike Richards on March 18, 2013, 10:49:36 PM
After visiting the first cheese shop in my life on Saturday, I decided I needed a "to try" list to take with me next time.  Boofer--this cheese reminded me about that list and is now the first item.  Thanks, it looks fantastic!
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on March 18, 2013, 11:25:29 PM
Thanks, Mike. I've already started my "corrections/improvements" list for this style. I'll post when finished.

The commercial version was really quite tasty. At $25/pound, I would expect no less. I read today that 6 weeks is the optimum ripening time and 13 weeks is the maximum.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on March 20, 2013, 07:06:15 AM
Today the cheese is one week old. Some Geo is coming on and the cheeses are fairly slick.

I began washing this morning with the prepared 5% brine with Geo13 & SR3.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Tiarella on March 20, 2013, 07:09:21 AM
Hi Boof!  I can't tell how that size compares to the original one you tasted........do you have approx. Measurements of each?
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on March 20, 2013, 07:32:40 AM
Size...too big...too small.... It's all about the size! ::)

From the wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont-l'%C3%89v%C3%AAque_cheese), the dimensions are 10cm square by 3cm high and 400g, or about 4 inches by 1.25 inches and 14 ounces.

My squares measure around 4.75 inches by 1.75 high.

I figure by the time the cheese has been washed a bit and the paste starts to soften, settle, shrink, and spread, it should be just about right.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Tiarella on March 20, 2013, 09:54:19 AM
Size...too big...too small.... It's all about the size! ::)

From the wiki ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont-l'%C3%89v%C3%AAque_cheese[/url]), the dimensions are 10cm square by 3cm high and 400g, or about 4 inches by 1.25 inches and 14 ounces.

My squares measure around 4.75 inches by 1.75 high.

I figure by the time the cheese has been washed a bit and the paste starts to soften, settle, shrink, and spread, it should be just about right.

-Boofer-


Thanks for allaying my size concerns. ;D. I do look forward to how this one develops since I'm finding that I don't really like stinky cheeses....the mild, creamy ones get my vote.  Plus, I really should figure out good varieties for lazy over-extended people.....you know, forgiving cheeses that are happy with just a bit of attention now and then.   :D
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: hoeklijn on March 21, 2013, 05:25:13 AM

I do look forward to how this one develops since I'm finding that I don't really like stinky cheeses....the mild, creamy ones get my vote. 


But the nicest are the stinky but mild and creamy ones like Epoisses....
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Tiarella on March 21, 2013, 06:32:14 AM

I do look forward to how this one develops since I'm finding that I don't really like stinky cheeses....the mild, creamy ones get my vote. 


But the nicest are the stinky but mild and creamy ones like Epoisses....

Maybe to you, Herman, but I think for me the stink is always in the taste too, not just the smell.   :D. I just give my stinky ones away to friends who like those while I search for cheeses I like better.   :'(
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on March 21, 2013, 09:16:24 AM
cheeses I like better.
I told my Dad I was making this cheese and he responded that he preferred the hard cheeses better.

So, Kathrin, have you made Reblochon and, if so, you didn't like it?

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Tiarella on March 21, 2013, 09:56:02 AM
cheeses I like better.
I told my Dad I was making this cheese and he responded that he preferred the hard cheeses better.

So, Kathrin, have you made Reblochon and, if so, you didn't like it?

-Boofer-

Reblochon made of goat milk is not Reblochon and the one I tried jumped ship......I did a thread on that somewhere. Or maybe that was the Desert Sunset Pave from Mary Karlin's book that was the ship jumping thread.  Eons ago, can't remember....yawn.  It was a nice cheese but not a Reblochon.   :-\ 
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Al Lewis on March 25, 2013, 04:08:53 PM
Did this make yesterday.  Looking forward to the results.
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on March 26, 2013, 10:55:48 AM
Washing every other day with 5% brine dosed with Geo13 & SR3.

Geo is apparent but linens is still taking a backseat.

Have a slight head congestion so I've taken to wearing a disposable surgical mask while I heal so I minimize the possibility of transferring anything from me to the cheeses. :P :-X

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on March 26, 2013, 11:10:58 AM
Did this make yesterday.  Looking forward to the results.
You did what make? What recipe?

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Al Lewis on March 26, 2013, 11:27:02 AM
I used the one you posted.
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on March 27, 2013, 01:00:51 AM
I used the one you posted.
Oops, that is not a finished product! :o   At the present, there is no established, proven recipe.

This is my first try at this style, but I think it's close to a Taleggio. Perhaps the French version. :)

The standard is 45% FDM and my "recipe" is way over the top there. As I stated, it's a work in progress with corrections/tweaks to come when I see the final results. I probably should not have added ANY additional cream.

I wish you luck, Al. I think it's the blind following the blind. ::)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Al Lewis on March 27, 2013, 01:27:13 AM
Well it was a toss up between doing this or a Taleggio so I guess I'll have the best of both worlds. LOL  Should prove interesting as I used a Taleggio mold. :o
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on March 27, 2013, 08:58:09 AM
I guess between the two of us (and Fied) we'll figure it out. ;)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Al Lewis on March 27, 2013, 04:13:39 PM
Reckon so! ;D
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on April 03, 2013, 07:38:58 PM
I have been letting the rind dry out a bit and have hesitated to wash it for fear of it getting too soft. The threat of slipskin was on the outskirts of town and I wanted to guard against that.

Geo is still the prominent rind guard and development personality. Not much linens action and the Geo is low-key. Interesting development so far. No foreign incursions. ;)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Al Lewis on April 04, 2013, 07:33:09 PM
Took mine out of the cave also.  It was stinky and damp. :-\
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on April 10, 2013, 02:00:34 PM
Just a datapoint to keep the record current. Getting a little more shrinkage. Moisture on the minicave walls, which I wipe down. I think this make is a little on the thick side for this style. I'm looking for a nice gooey paste akin to Taleggio but I think we're quite a ways from that at this point.

That's two tentative changes I would make to the recipe:
-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Tiarella on April 10, 2013, 06:55:30 PM
Just a datapoint to keep the record current. Getting a little more shrinkage. Moisture on the minicave walls, which I wipe down. I think this make is a little on the thick side for this style. I'm looking for a nice gooey paste akin to Taleggio but I think we're quite a ways from that at this point.

That's two tentative changes I would make to the recipe:
  • thinner form factor
  • leave out the cream or significantly less cream
-Boofer-


How does yours smell?  I find this style tricky although I really loved the peachy colored washed rind wannabes I made last summer.   ;)
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on April 11, 2013, 06:34:22 PM
How does yours smell?  I find this style tricky although I really loved the peachy colored washed rind wannabes I made last summer.   ;)
I'll have to consult my onsite olfactory inspector. My bloodhound years are behind me. My dear wife is the second opinion I cherish.

I had them out for a walk in the past hour. They were mildly aromatic. I just grabbed her and marched her out to the cave network. Her conclusion after several whiffs with delays between...very mild, nothing unpleasant or untoward. She asked "is that okay?" I told her it was.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Tiarella on April 11, 2013, 08:01:01 PM
How does yours smell?  I find this style tricky although I really loved the peachy colored washed rind wannabes I made last summer.   ;)
I'll have to consult my onsite olfactory inspector. My bloodhound years are behind me. My dear wife is the second opinion I cherish.

I had them out for a walk in the past hour. They were mildly aromatic. I just grabbed her and marched her out to the cave network. Her conclusion after several whiffs with delays between...very mild, nothing unpleasant or untoward. She asked "is that okay?" I told her it was.

-Boofer-

Well aren't you the official type cheesy guy!   >:D. Onsite Ofactory Inspector for your Cheese Cave Network!?
Would her title be the OOI?   Kind of sounds like what I say after tasting something bad.   :D   So, that'd be the OOI of the CCN?  I like it!

I need to do cheese patrol tonight.  I'm sure someone needs attention.   I need to make cheese too...milk is piling up.
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on April 15, 2013, 08:52:56 AM
Reckon so! ;D
Hey, Al, any progress to report on your rendition of this cheese?

Mine is coming up on the fifth week this Wednesday. As of this morning, the two squares are holding their own and the Geo is the dominant rind protector and paste developer. Don't see much of the linens even though the cheeses get flipped and an airing every other day. The surfaces are slick (Geo) and you can see shrinkage overall with a slight subsequent wrinkling of the rind.

I think without the added cream and with a lower-height form factor, the two cheeses would be nearing completion with the paste nice and creamy. As it is, I suspect the paste is still chalky towards the center. :P

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: iratherfly on April 15, 2013, 02:57:44 PM
marched her out to the cave network
Boofer, a cave NETWORK? Impressive achievement for any cheesemaker and their only common grounds with those hiding from the long arms of America!

Love Pont L'Évêque!
Bascally, take a Camembert, stick it in a square hoop instead of a round one, and instead of bloomy treatment, wash it.  The only other fabrication difference is that Pont L'Évêque curd gets cut before it is ladled to the hoops so it's slightly less moist.

As far as size goes, there are two sizes. Full size is about the dimensions of a full Telaggio. This get quartered in the shop and then each quarter is cut across to form two triangular cheese wedges. These sold individually just as Brie gets cut in the shop to be cut individually.  And then, there is the more common Petit Pont L'Évêque which is sold in the small square wooden boxes. Sometimes a shop may take them out of the boxes and cut them to 2 triangular wedges as well.  The Petit size is 1/4 of the full size.  In fact, you can use the Tallegio mould with the splitter to make 4 proper size Petit versions. Your size looks totally good to me. Really nice work with the aging too!  A cheese for you buddy!

If you want to get that very unique authentic color and aroma... there is an easy perfect way: Use Danisco Choozit ARN. It is EXACTLY the correct blend and it was isolated from that cheese. It is to Pont L'Évêque what PLA is to Reblochon - only it is even more authentic.

I recently used it to make a washed rind experiment. I used totally different starter and I used kid rennet so it never meant to be anything like Pont L'Évêque but the ARN rind treatment made it sooooo l'Évêque-ish!!!  Note the color, the paste underneath, the thickness and the development of the rind which is not as smooth as Reblochon but not brainy, sort of in-between (for which you are correct to choose Geo 13 by the way). The rind doesn't just look like Pont l'Évêque, it smells like it too!
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on April 15, 2013, 10:57:46 PM
Thanks, Yoav.

Fantastic looking cheese. Yum!

The rind here is slick. Most unusual for other Geo rinds I have made which were drier and somewhat gritty. I am trying to air it out a bit more and dry the rind a bit. Any other suggestions? I even made up a mister this evening to give the two squares a booster dose of SR3 in hopes of getting a little more color.

I think you have finally made me a believer in ARN. You've beat the drum enough for me to add that to my list to you. When making a cheese this past week, I upped the dosage to 1/2 tsp because I thought the cultures were getting a little long in the tooth (2010). I will be looking to replace those with some fresher ones.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: iratherfly on April 15, 2013, 11:51:18 PM
Thanks Boof!

The cultures from 2010 are probably just fine as long as you kept them frozen, airtight and dry so they never clumped (happens when you move them from a cold dry freezer to a noramal room temp/humidity. They collect moisture beads just like a bottle of cold beer out in a hot summer day. It pre-activates them and they die due to lack of nutrients - no milk...).  Expiration dates on these packets are a bit of nonsense but that's a subject for a whole other thread...
In any event, you don't need to double or quadruple the amount just because they are old, but you can certainly at a tad. Too much of any culture would consume the substrates too quickly and your cheese will go out of balance.

The rind you are describing sounds like Mocasse to me. That's the early stage of geo growth (the late stage of geo is powdery dry white, such as the dusted covering you see growing over the orange rind of a Reblochon).  Reduce temperature and reduce humidity immediately. Toss a bit of salt on your next wash. All this stuff will slow the geo by a lot, but probably not slow the B.Linen as much, so it will give it a chance to catch up.  I would also consider changing the washing method are you using brush? sponge? your hand? It's not a sure fix but it may be just the edge you need to get back control over your army of rebel microbes.

The other thing to remember (which I reiterate but I know you know this already) is that the B.Linen coloring intensifies long after you have stopped your wash routine. All you want to see is that it is getting yellower or orange-ier so you know it is planted and alive. 2-4 weeks after you have done washing the color will finally look like what you originally wanted. Not like a Camembert where the white is white and that's it.   The cheese in the photo is aged 60 days.  I only think that it reached Pont l'Évêque coloring at about the 5th or 6th week (of course, mind you I was not going for Pont l'Évêque). This cheese has been out of the cave and in refrigeration since week 3.  The texture and flavor were still not complete by end of 6/beginning of 7.  The B. Linen will arrive. Just give it time.

Another thing to consider on your next wash is using yeast and micrococci. They will prepare the surface faster stronger b.linens, as well as protect against contaminating bacteria. They also contribute to the aroma, flavor and texture. In this case KL71 and MVA will work great together.
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: linuxboy on April 16, 2013, 12:02:56 AM
Quote
get back control over your army of rebel microbes.
I have this vision of millions of microflora standing up... "I'm Spartacus!"
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on April 16, 2013, 12:41:49 AM
Quote
get back control over your army of rebel microbes.
I have this vision of millions of microflora standing up... "I'm Spartacus!"
"No, I'm Spartacus!"

Classic. ;)

They collect moisture beads
I take the bag out of the freezer, take what I need quickly, and re-vacuum seal the bag to suck out the moisture. They have been staying fairly dry and unclumped that way. Still, every time I open the vacuum seal and expose them to moister air over the years, there has to be some degradation in viability.

The rind you are describing sounds like Mocasse to me.

The other thing to remember (which I reiterate but I know you know this already) is that the B.Linen coloring intensifies long after you have stopped your wash routine. All you want to see is that it is getting yellower or orange-ier so you know it is planted and alive. 2-4 weeks after you have done washing the color will finally look like what you originally wanted.
I stopped washing almost two weeks ago because the rind appeared to be softening too much and I was trying to dry it out a bit. I would agree that the slickeriness is mocasse. I've seen that before. I just expected it to fade by now, the Geo to dry a bit and head towards grittiness, and for the linens to come on a bit more.

I'll resume washing tomorrow morning with my SR3 & 3% brine. That should help correct some things.

Then I'm wondering about the target ripening date range.... Everything points to 4-6 weeks ripening. Wednesday marks five weeks. :P  I'm not in a rush...this needs to be ripe before I cut into it.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: KTownCheese on April 17, 2013, 12:16:36 PM
Awesome pics!  Beauty form and impressions on your rind!
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: iratherfly on April 18, 2013, 12:00:21 AM
Quote
get back control over your army of rebel microbes.
I have this vision of millions of microflora standing up... "I'm Spartacus!"
"No, I'm Spartacus!"
No, I am Spartacus!

Seriously you guys, someone called me "The cheese whisperer" a few months ago and while I was humbled by that, not only did I feel I can never deliver, but I also thought that this title is already used for Willi Schmidt, Rolf Beeler and Hervé MonS and I am not nearly at their class...
But Cheese Spartacus will do!


I take the bag out of the freezer, take what I need quickly, and re-vacuum seal the bag to suck out the moisture. They have been staying fairly dry and unclumped that way. Still, every time I open the vacuum seal and expose them to moister air over the years, there has to be some degradation in viability.
Well, one of the easy tricks to do this is to take the bag out of the freezer 30-60 minutes before you need to use it. Let it all get to room temperature inside the dry environment of your vacuum so there is no moisture (it's all on the outside of the bag). Now open the bag, doze, vacuum and back to the freezer it goes. If you noticed, this is what Danisco recommends in their instructions, of course referring to the original factory-sealed sachet with the protective dry nitrogen-flushed atmosphere inside which is better than any of our vacuums... But if you strongly believe that your vacuum is dry than do it. By the time you open it the powder will be at room temperature and without the thermal shock there will be no condensation (unless of course you live in a Turkish bathhouse). Something to think about. May improve the longevity of your cultures.

I stopped washing almost two weeks ago because the rind appeared to be softening too much and I was trying to dry it out a bit. I would agree that the slickeriness is mocasse. I've seen that before. I just expected it to fade by now, the Geo to dry a bit and head towards grittiness, and for the linens to come on a bit more.

I'll resume washing tomorrow morning with my SR3 & 3% brine. That should help correct some things.
Actually, you are hitting my point about taking back control: Do the opposite and get proactive on it. Don't let the geo run wild. Your washing is exactly what will keep it geo in check. It will develop the B.Linen and wipe some of that geo off. It will dry and thin out the rind. Reduce humidity and temperature and wash, wash, wash. In fact, before you continue your wash routine, I suggest to toss a bit of coarse salt on the surface, then rub it in with the rag/brush soaked with your morge. Then rub it once more with a demp cloth to get the exces liquid out and leave it only moist but not wet.  (don't worry about salting, at this point your cheese is not moist enough for osmosis so it won't make the cheese overly salty, only the rind). The salt's abrasiveness will dig in the geo, it will slow it down and it will give you stronger, firmer, drier rind with good elasticity. You need to get the B.Linen growing as fast as possible at this point because this is what will make the main proteolysis from now on, hence giving you that Camembert-like texture (in Camembert the PC does it)

Then I'm wondering about the target ripening date range.... Everything points to 4-6 weeks ripening. Wednesday marks five weeks. :P  I'm not in a rush...this needs to be ripe before I cut into it.
Get out that cheese trier! This cheese will also be good if the center is not ripe all the way.  (personal taste though...)

Awesome pics!  Beauty form and impressions on your rind!
Thank you! Yes, I like these rinds that look like tuffed pillows and they crack when bent to reveal some oozing interior. Can't explain why I find them appetizing. I just do...
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on April 18, 2013, 09:33:03 AM
Seriously you guys, someone called me "The cheese whisperer" a few months ago
I didn't mean to imply that I felt I was Spartacus, I was merely echoing the hundreds/thousands of them way back who purportedly voiced that.

Actually, you are hitting my point about taking back control: Do the opposite and get proactive on it. Don't let the geo run wild. Your washing is exactly what will keep it geo in check. It will develop the B.Linen and wipe some of that geo off. It will dry and thin out the rind. Reduce humidity and temperature and wash, wash, wash. In fact, before you continue your wash routine, I suggest to toss a bit of coarse salt on the surface, then rub it in with the rag/brush soaked with your morge. Then rub it once more with a demp cloth to get the exces liquid out and leave it only moist but not wet.  (don't worry about salting, at this point your cheese is not moist enough for osmosis so it won't make the cheese overly salty, only the rind). The salt's abrasiveness will dig in the geo, it will slow it down and it will give you stronger, firmer, drier rind with good elasticity. You need to get the B.Linen growing as fast as possible at this point because this is what will make the main proteolysis from now on, hence giving you that Camembert-like texture (in Camembert the PC does it)
So how can you wash these cheeses with the delicate rind without totally destroying the cheese?

I like these rinds that look like tuffed pillows and they crack when bent to reveal some oozing interior.
Yes, they would crack and be an oozy mess. I wouldn't think that was a condition to be desired.

I have been giving them more time to air out and the minicave lid was cracked a couple weeks ago. I began misting with SR3 & brine, but I am reluctant to go full-bore and resume an aggressive washing regimen as you suggest. Salting seems like it could help so I will do that.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: linuxboy on April 18, 2013, 11:30:31 AM
Quote
I'll do 40 "Hail Cheeses" to show penitence.
Ah, just in time for morning mass. Thought I missed it.

Hail Cheeses, full of grace
The mold is with thee
Blessed art thou among fermented treats,
And blessed is the fruit of thy vat, the tomme
Holy Cheeses, mother of umami and flavor
Get into my belly, now and at the hour of our death
Amen

Caseus vobiscum
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: george (MaryJ) on April 19, 2013, 06:07:32 AM
Hail Cheeses, full of grace
The mold is with thee
Blessed art though among fermented treats,
And blessed is the fruit of thy vat, the tomme
Holy Cheeses, mother of umami and flavor
Get into my belly, now and at the hour of our death
Amen

Caseus vobiscum
Oh boy.  Took me a while to get back on my chair to type this, after I fell off it laughing.

I wonder if I could get someone to needlepoint this?  Would make a fine addition to any wall, dontcha think?   >:D
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: iratherfly on April 22, 2013, 09:30:22 PM
It's a winning shirt for the next Cheesemonger Invitational. Better than their 'Raw Milk Rockstar' and 'Straight outa' Comté'.
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: zvisaar on April 24, 2013, 02:41:11 AM
hi. just a simple question  the brook whipping cream whats the percentage of fat in that cream ???

Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on April 25, 2013, 12:51:08 AM
hi. just a simple question  the brook whipping cream whats the percentage of fat in that cream ???
Direct from the the Twin Brooks Creamery folks: 40-41%

We're at the 6 week point. Still working the rind and trying to see some linens. I can't be sure whether what I'm seeing is linens or just the drier rind color, like on the corners.  :-\

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Tiarella on April 25, 2013, 06:30:14 AM
Hi Boofer!  looks like linens to me.  nice cheeses! 
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on May 07, 2013, 06:25:13 PM
Tomorrow marks week eight in this cheese's life. I decided to go ahead and cut today.

I was a little concerned that the thicker form factor would result in a chalky core. Not a problem at week 8. Very rich and creamy. Good flavor and level of salt. Although the paste should have been more similar to very soft taffy, this is more than acceptable for a freshman effort. As I said, reducing the thickness and eliminating the added cream should result in a cheese more true to style.

Did I mention that this was very rich? :P  ;)

After quartering the squares, I vacuum-sealed the quarters and put them into the cold fridge.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on May 10, 2013, 01:40:49 AM
I sampled this after it had been out at room temperature for a while and what do you know...it was soft, spreadable, and with a texture very much like soft taffy. Nice.  :)

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: JeffHamm on May 10, 2013, 03:13:19 PM
Very nice result again Boofer!  A cheese to you for such a nice outcome.  So, will you be making this again?

- Jeff
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: bbracken677 on May 10, 2013, 03:57:27 PM
I sampled this after it had been out at room temperature for a while and what do you know...it was soft, spreadable, and with a texture very much like soft taffy. Nice.  :)

-Boofer-

I love cheese with those qualities... you didnt mention the flavor though. How was that?

Tossing another cheese on your pile cause now I want to make one!!   >:D
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on May 11, 2013, 05:10:41 PM
I sampled this after it had been out at room temperature for a while and what do you know...it was soft, spreadable, and with a texture very much like soft taffy. Nice.  :)

-Boofer-


I love cheese with those qualities... you didnt mention the flavor though. How was that?

Tossing another cheese on your pile cause now I want to make one!!   >:D
I took a wedge out early this morning along with a wedge of my Saint Paulin (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10685.msg84728.html#msg84728). Several hours later, when they were both sufficiently at ambient temperature, I enjoyed them with some fresh no-knead bread (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,11229.0.html) and fruit (apple slices and orange & sweet pink grapefruit sections). Wow! Nice pairing of all of that. The Pont l'Eveque was sliceable and yet spreadable. The taste was delicately creamy and, when I closed my eyes, I thought I had a vision of an alpine hillside complete with loving cow.  ;)

Thanks for the cheeses guys. Yes, I would make this again. I didn't really have a recipe to start with, but this turned out wonderfully anyway. I even enjoy the rind. The entire cheese is an amazement. I would adjust the recipe to eliminate the added cream...it slows down ripening (as did the slightly thicker form factor). The salt content is dead-on. There was no encroachment by foreign invaders. There also was little visible linens...perhaps I was just a little too sparing in the SR3 dosage, but then again, the rind is perfectly edible. Maybe more linens would have given reason to remove the rind. :P

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: hoeklijn on May 12, 2013, 09:46:51 AM
Congrats and a cheese for this result! Excellent looking cheese again!
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Boofer on May 31, 2013, 12:44:23 AM
Tonight the planets seemed to align in my kitchen. I had an unopened bottle of Vouvray wine, some baguette, and the makings for Tartiflette. Following Yoav's link for a recipe (http://vivamost.com/2010/01/tartiflette-potato-dish-reblchon-white-wine/), I gave it my best effort.

No, I didn't have Reblochon, but I had decided that this cheese might serve well in its place.

There are a large number of recipes for tartiflette. Some don't add the crème fraiche, some vary the type of potatoes, some don't agree on how to slice the cheese and place it on top of the dish. Some reduce the wine while others, such as this recipe, just pour the wine onto the dish. I found that this makes a pretty wet dish. The wine should at least be partially reduced. The crème fraiche should be mixed with the wine to help it cover the potatoes more evenly. This recipe didn't mention any seasonings, even salt & pepper, but some recipes call for thyme.

The end result was a rich "comfort food" dish complemented by a simple green salad, the Vouvray, and the baguette. The Pont l'Eveque seemed to meld fairly well in the dish. It would certainly be more at home on a cold blustery, winter evening. I would repeat the effort making a few adjustments...maybe even using Reblochon, if I have it available.

-Boofer-
Title: Re: Pont-l'Évêque . . . magnifique?
Post by: Tiarella on May 31, 2013, 05:50:03 AM
Yum!  That looks great!  I haven't tried this yet.....probably partly because we don't grow/make bacon and we really limit what we buy for food.  Your photo essay has me starting to think it'd be worth buying some.   :D

Thanks for sharing!