Culture Question

[WovenMeadows]

Regarding the first question, my understanding is that a lot of these imitations of Emmental, like the Dutch Maasam and Leerdammer, Norwegian Jarlsberg, and US Baby Swiss, are a mesophilic, lower-temp make take on the Emmental process. Making for a faster ripening cheese. If the recipe has you cook beyond 104 degree though, you probably want to include some thermophilic

[jwalker]

There may be more to it than just temperatures.

I can't find the thread right now , but I remember reading here somewhere , that thermo is used in some cheeses because it is activated by heat and will live longer than meso , continuing to add flavor and affect the cheese in other ways , longer into the aging process when the meso has already died off , and is sometimes used just for that purpose when higher heat isn't necessary.

I'll search for the link , maybe someone else here remembers it as well.

[Boofer]

my understanding is that a lot of these imitations of Emmental, like the Dutch Maasam and Leerdammer, Norwegian Jarlsberg, and US Baby Swiss, are a mesophilic, lower-temp make take on the Emmental process.

Sorry, I saw this and couldn't shake it.

You might try reading about Goutaler cheese styles. They are not simply a knock-off of a wayward Emmental make. Jarlsberg shares company with other Goutaler cheeses including Alpsberg and Felsberg from Germany, and Leerdamer and Maasdammer from the Netherlands.

Baby Swiss isn't connected with Goutaler styles.

-Boofer-

[WovenMeadows]

my understanding is that a lot of these imitations of Emmental, like the Dutch Maasam and Leerdammer, Norwegian Jarlsberg, and US Baby Swiss, are a mesophilic, lower-temp make take on the Emmental process.

Sorry, I saw this and couldn't shake it.

You might try reading about Goutaler cheese styles. They are not simply a knock-off of a wayward Emmental make. Jarlsberg shares company with other Goutaler cheeses including Alpsberg and Felsberg from Germany, and Leerdamer and Maasdammer from the Netherlands.

Baby Swiss isn't connected with Goutaler styles.

-Boofer-

Well, alright, maybe "imitation" is a bit too strong. When I searched for "Goutaler", its described as a cheese "modeled on" or "inspired by" both Gouda and Emmental. The name as a portmanteau suggests this of course: Gouda + Emmentaler = Goutaler. But I think its still fair to say then that these types seek to "imitate" as least certain key aspects of Emmental - the sweet nuttiness and holey-ness that comes from proprionic activity.

As for Baby Swiss not being connected with Goutaler types - how so? Maybe not historically, as an intentional technique "modeled on" the process or products of Gouda and Emmental. But in actual practice? The recipes by both Peter Dixon and Jim Wallace basically describe an aromatic-culture Gouda washed-curd make supplemented with Proprionic Shermani, and then allowed a warming period during aging. A Gouda-Emmentaler hybrid. The only real difference I can find in Jim Wallaces recipes between Baby Swiss and Jarlsberg is that the latter starts off at a higher temperature (the pre-ripening stage).

[jwalker]

the sweet nuttiness and holey-ness that comes from proprionic activity.

I just love that description , the "holey-ness"  ;D , I've always felt that enjoying a good Emmentaller is a near religious experience. ;D ;D ;D ;D

[WovenMeadows]

Lol, I actually spelled it that way first - holiness - and thought, something doesn't look quite right about that...

[Ananke]

Show off time!  It has turned out really well and I'm so happy with it.  I'll seal half of it and let it mature a wee bit longer.

Here it is...

[ArnaudForestier]

Ananke, congratulations, looks beautiful, cheese to you!

[Ananke]

Thank you ArnaudForestier.

[jwalker]

Wow !!!
Fantastic , I never get eyes like that , what's your secret ?

I must be doing something wrong , you are obviously doing something right !

Another cheese to you .

[H-K-J]

Wow !!!
Fantastic , I never get eyes like that , what's your secret ?
I must be doing something wrong , you are obviously doing something right !

I know I am doing something wrong JW,
this looks excellent Ananke, I too wish I could get eyes like that :o
Have another well deserved cheese  ;D
a question, what cultures are in ALP-D?

[Ananke]

Thanks guys.  I'm really proud of it. 
I used 1/4 tsp of this for the holes.
http://gnltd.co.uk/cheese-making-cultures-mould-propionic-culture-mesophilic.html

If I could change one thing about it, I would leave it in the brine longer, I think it could be doing with a bit more salt, the family don't think it needs any changes but I think they are just being nice because of how excited I was when I cut into it and seen how nice it looked lol.

[Alpkäserei]

No, no more salt!
Put the salt down!
I am convinced salt is the number one reason most people aren't getting eyes. PS and salt do not play well together

Emmentaler, by the way, is a very low salt cheese.

You need to get your flavor elsewhere, such as by age (in which case, it will actually form some compounds that taste salty)

[Ananke]

"step away from the salt" lol That's interesting to know. 

I'm going to attempt Jeff's Caerphilly this weekend, there's no stopping me now :)

[jwalker]

No, no more salt!
Put the salt down!
I am convinced salt is the number one reason most people aren't getting eyes. PS and salt do not play well together

Emmentaler, by the way, is a very low salt cheese.

You need to get your flavor elsewhere, such as by age (in which case, it will actually form some compounds that taste salty)

I agree with Alp here , the imported emmentallers I have tried are very sweet and nutty tasting , with a definite lack of salt.

The sweetness is one of the things I like about them , I guess it's time to try another.