Mother culture vs DVI initial acidification time

[tecla]

I haven't used a mother culture yet, only DVI cultures, but at some point I'll give it a shot. Recipes such as on NECM's website give initial acidification timing before rennetting based on DVI cultures, so they have time to hydrate, wake up, and start multiplying and getting initial acidification going.

All other variables being the same, if one were to use the equivalent amount of mother culture, should the initial acidification time be reduced? And if so, what's a good rule of thumb for the time adjustment?

Alternatively, is there a rule of thumb for how much mother culture to use that gets you in the ballpark of the same DVI time before rennetting, so instead of adjusting time you just adjust amount mixed into the milk instead?

[smolt1]

I started with a meso culture. Then I tried kefir whey. Then I tried both in the same make. I found that I liked the kefir better so I mixed the whey from both and have been saving that mixed and frozen as ice cubes. Now I use that mix for all meso cheeses. I use 6 to 8 ice cubes for a 2 gallon batch and the times to renneting and clean break are the same as they were for meso only.

Cheers, Bob

[mikekchar]

Sorry for the late reply.  Basically, if you have similar cultures they will acidify at similar rates.  Most mesophilic mother cultures that you culture up from dairy products are very similar to the cultures found in DVI cultures.

Typical rates for healthy mother cultures are about 1.5% of the weight of the milk. That's about 15 grams of mother culture per liter of milk, or even 15 ml of mother culture per liter of milk is very, very close (withing the error bars of the usage rate, anyway).

[tecla]

So would you say that if a given recipe calls for only 1/2 of a recommended dose of say TA61 for a longer, slower acidification in the vat and the press, then you'd use only 0.75% dose of mother culture by milk volume, and keep all other timings or acidification markers the same for the recipe?

[smolt1]

You are getting above my pay grade. My knowledge of cultures Is not much, I just like to experiment, and taste the results.

[mikekchar]

So would you say that if a given recipe calls for only 1/2 of a recommended dose of say TA61 for a longer, slower acidification in the vat and the press, then you'd use only 0.75% dose of mother culture by milk volume, and keep all other timings or acidification markers the same for the recipe?

Sorry for the very late response: Yep, that's exactly what I do.  At least the first time.  Usually it takes me a good 5 times before I'm reasonably happy with a new cheese style.  To be fair, I don't really follow other people's recipes any more.  I basically read recipes to try to understand what they are trying to do and then I create my own recipe.  If you use a flocculation method and get familiar with the way the milk is working at different temps, you can also adjust your techniques on the fly to deal with things being a bit off.

[tecla]

Yep, I use the flocculation method, and it works well. It annoys me when I can't figure out the multiplier from a recipe, but usually I can find one for the style that works well enough.

I made a Tomme de Savoie the other day from 4 gallons of raw milk that acidified way too quickly, and I thought I had made the proper adjustments to the DVI cultures to compensate for the raw milk. Temperatures and times were reasonably in line with the NECM recipe, so either the DVI cultures were just really happy or the raw milk had more native cultures than I expected. The cheese is two weeks along, and I core sampled it and it got just a bit grainy/chalky as expected. I'll try making one again but with probably half of the DVI cultures to see if I can dial it in.

[tecla]

I should clarify: the raw milk was fine, pH north of 6.8 when I started warming the milk. I just hit the acidity in the press I wanted before 2 hours when I was expecting it to be in the press for 4 hours + cool overnight rest before brining it.

My most typical problem with the cheese I make is exactly this, acidifying too quickly. I know I should use less culture and try to keep the vat time down a bit more, but I second guess myself and end up with acidification on the slightly aggressive side more often than not.

I made a gruyere that is still aging that appeared to bottom out at a pH of 5.4 after a long time in the press, I was really proud of that one. Sometimes I do get it right on track.