Recipes and Ph Levels

[nikro000]

All,

I want to refine my cheesemaking process and I am getting more interested in emasuring the ph level.
Are there recipes out there that give me suggested ph levels for every step of the cheesemaking process?

Example:
For cheddar, after acidification of the milk, the ph level should be in range X
After drying the curds the ph level should be in range Y
During cheddaring it should not drop below Z

Is anything like that out there for most cheeses?

Thanks!

[mikekchar]

Caldwell's book is probably the best for that: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1603583327  Unfortunately, even in her book you have to root around a lot to find the info (and sometimes it isn't there).  I think part of the problem is that pH level for cheeses are kind of the secret sauce for a producer.  They don't want to give away their secrets.  Probably the other best place is actually this forum.  If you go back trough recipes posted here, you will find quite a few have pH targets.  A lot of times you can reason your way through it, though.

For example, the speed that rennet sets is completely dependent upon pH and temperature.  So if you know the flocculation target for a cheese and the temperature, you can work out the pH you want in your milk through trial and error.  The curd drain pH is crucial, but again, you can kind of figure out what you need to hit by how the cheese is supposed to drain.  A lower pH cheese will drain faster, but will not knit easily.  A higher pH cheese will knit very easily without much (or even any) weight, but will drain slowly.  The salting pH depends on what you want to achieve in the final cheese.  So if you want a great melting cheese, you want a pH of 5.1-5.3.  If you want the cheese to slump a bit, then you probably want a pH of about 5.4 or a bit higher.  If you want a cheese to be runny when externally ripened, then you want a pH below 5.  That kind of thing.  Also, you can kind of figure out what the recipe is going for by looking at the draining/pressing temp and the duration.

So even if you don't have explicit targets given to you, if you record your pH at every stage and then think critically about what you are trying to achieve, you can adjust them to hit your goals.  Again, Caldwell's book is gold for learning what the pH means and why you want to hit particular targets a various stages.  To be honest, though, I wish there was a book that spelled this stuff out more clearly.  I find that cheese making books seem to pander to people who have a fairly negative reaction to science.  It's very frustrating.

[MacGruff]

Sounds like an opportunity to write a book, no?

 

No, seriously. While it may not turn out to be a best-seller with enough residuals to allow you to retire in luxury ... there are enough people around this forum who keep asking the same questions. I know I have them as well.

 

[mikekchar]

I have seriously thought about putting together a web page/blog, but I'm also writing a game in my no-so-spare time so I've got to be realistic.  But once I actually have some experience making cheese in about 10 years or so, I should be read ;-)  If you look at posts by the user linuxboy on this forum, he's the guy I really wish would write a book.  He hasn't been back for years.  I often wonder what he's up to.

[fattyacid]

There is a chart floating around in the forums by DeejayDeb that does just for several cheese archetypes and is fairly accurate. If I can find it I will link it here.

FA-

[mikekchar]

OMG.  Searching for DeejayDeb on the forums has completely restocked my reading list!  A quick glance didn't give me the link you were talking about, but man there are a lot of amazing PDFs to read 

[Knittingjidda]

This is really helpful and timely--I have a cheese in the press now (Leerdammer/Maasdam style) and am trying to figure out where I should have my ph to stop pressing. I'm flipping every hour and hoping to have a little slump, but not too much. The recipe said 5.4, but I'll try for 5.3 to see where I end up with this one.

Caldwell's book is probably the best for that: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1603583327  Unfortunately, even in her book you have to root around a lot to find the info (and sometimes it isn't there).  I think part of the problem is that pH level for cheeses are kind of the secret sauce for a producer.  They don't want to give away their secrets.  Probably the other best place is actually this forum.  If you go back trough recipes posted here, you will find quite a few have pH targets.  A lot of times you can reason your way through it, though.

For example, the speed that rennet sets is completely dependent upon pH and temperature.  So if you know the flocculation target for a cheese and the temperature, you can work out the pH you want in your milk through trial and error.  The curd drain pH is crucial, but again, you can kind of figure out what you need to hit by how the cheese is supposed to drain.  A lower pH cheese will drain faster, but will not knit easily.  A higher pH cheese will knit very easily without much (or even any) weight, but will drain slowly.  The salting pH depends on what you want to achieve in the final cheese.  So if you want a great melting cheese, you want a pH of 5.1-5.3.  If you want the cheese to slump a bit, then you probably want a pH of about 5.4 or a bit higher.  If you want a cheese to be runny when externally ripened, then you want a pH below 5.  That kind of thing.  Also, you can kind of figure out what the recipe is going for by looking at the draining/pressing temp and the duration.

So even if you don't have explicit targets given to you, if you record your pH at every stage and then think critically about what you are trying to achieve, you can adjust them to hit your goals.  Again, Caldwell's book is gold for learning what the pH means and why you want to hit particular targets a various stages.  To be honest, though, I wish there was a book that spelled this stuff out more clearly.  I find that cheese making books seem to pander to people who have a fairly negative reaction to science.  It's very frustrating.

[Bantams]

Part of the issue is that commercial and home pH targets differ. Large format cheeses (say a 12# 5" thick wheel) will take longer to cool in the middle and longer for the brine to permeate - so the pH will continue to drop for a longer time than a wheel that is only 3" thick. That means the large wheel should go in the brine earlier, at a higher pH.
pH targets are more important for some cheeses like mozz and Cheddar than others like Alpine styles (very little pH change in vat)