Author Topic: Any ideas for help with a Port Salut?  (Read 2123 times)

Offline MacGruff

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Any ideas for help with a Port Salut?
« on: January 22, 2020, 02:25:06 PM »
During Christmas break I decided to make a couple wheels of Port Salut following a recipe published a few years ago in Culture magazine. Everything went well with the makes and I have two wheels sitting in my cheese  "cave" (a modified dorm refrigerator) waiting the prescribed two to three months. The cheese cave is pretty good at holding the temp at about 45 degrees and relative humidity at around 60 to 65%.

Both wheels are feeling much more firm than the commercial Port Saluts I've been buying in the stores at this stage in their lives (one month). Interestingly, the older wheel (I made the two one week apart) is much drier in appearance and touch than the newer one, and has developed a crack. I am attaching two cell phone pictures here. (Sorry for the poor quality - the cave is in the basement with poor lighting)

Also, while I used the bacteria wash the recipe recommended and spritzed both wheels every three days, neither is developing an orange / rosy tinge.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thank you.

Offline awakephd

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Re: Any ideas for help with a Port Salut?
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2020, 02:49:15 PM »
I think the cave is too dry for these to develop properly. I'd put them in "ripening boxes" to get the RH up.
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Re: Any ideas for help with a Port Salut?
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2020, 04:44:10 PM »
Yes for sure too dry. Humidity should be closer to 90%

Offline MacGruff

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Re: Any ideas for help with a Port Salut?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2020, 12:20:53 AM »
90%???  Gulp!!!

OK. Time for some remedial action... Hopefully it's not too late...     :-[

Offline MacGruff

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Re: Any ideas for help with a Port Salut?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2020, 02:04:19 PM »
I broke open the cracked Port Salut. Here is what it looks like:



The taste is good, but it is NOT a Port Salut. It is not gooey at all. I took a small slice and tried toasting it and it got quite rubbery. Right now it is back in the "cave" at 52 degrees and 84% humidity.

Open to any suggestions???

Offline mikekchar

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Re: Any ideas for help with a Port Salut?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2020, 10:59:25 PM »
"The thread" for washed rinds: https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,10633.0.html  Alp is talking about making washed rinds for alpine cheeses in this thread, but the process is exactly the same.  Now that you've cut the cheese, there is nothing you can do.  Just enjoy it as is and make another one :-)  It looks fantastic, BTW.  AC4U!

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Re: Any ideas for help with a Port Salut?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2020, 05:19:09 PM »
Quote
Now that you've cut the cheese, there is nothing you can do

Aint that the truth!

 ;D ;D

(Couldn't resist)

Trent

Offline MacGruff

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Re: Any ideas for help with a Port Salut?
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2020, 09:51:04 PM »
It has now been almost three months since I made the first cheese wheel (the "dry" one), and one week less for the "moist" one. We had a small dinner party with some friends who are also muchly into cheese and wine, so I thought it would be time to see what really happened with these. The following pictures are of the event, and I am looking for advice and information from you folks - who are much better at this than I.

First, a picture of the "moist" wheel before I cut into it. The two wedges you see next to it were from the "dry" wheel that I cut open a few weeks back that I have since vacuum-sealed and had sitting in the fridge as a comparison. As you can see, the wheel aging in the cave had developed a nice color rind. It did have some cracks and picked up some blue - despite my constant attention and wiping it off and then a vinegar/salt wipe afterwards:

Offline MacGruff

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Re: Any ideas for help with a Port Salut?
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2020, 09:54:35 PM »
This next picture is of the "dry" wheel. I kept it aging in the cave even though I had cut in in half after I corrected the Relative Humidity to 80-85%. Again, mostly to see what would happen. As you can see,, even after slicing off the edge, a lot of bluish-green mold made it in through the eyes in the paste and was quite prominent in this slice. As a note, I cut some more off and the paste further in than this did NOT have the green mold. Did have those eyes though.


Offline MacGruff

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Re: Any ideas for help with a Port Salut?
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2020, 09:55:39 PM »
Next came the "Moist" cheese wheel. Cutting off a slice, yielded this:


Offline MacGruff

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Re: Any ideas for help with a Port Salut?
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2020, 10:00:30 PM »
So, now for the big finale!

The taste of these cheeses was quite mild. More of an alpine cheese than a Port Salut. There was definitely an impact of being too dry in the early parts of their lives as evident in their different texture from a standard Port Salut. They were not at all that squashy, soft, almost Brie-like consistency. Also, look at the picture below which has the two wheels stacked one on top of the other. The past is relatively firm. The one on top is the "dry" one, while the "moist" is on the bottom. There are eyes in both, but the "dry" ones has many more. We all thought the "dry" one tasked much more like the commercial Alpine Lace cheese than anything else. The bottom one tasted mild as well.

Any suggestions on what led to all this ... and most importantly, what should I do to improve on in my next attempt to make this style of cheese?

Thanks for all the help!

Offline mikekchar

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Re: Any ideas for help with a Port Salut?
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2020, 01:13:51 AM »
First AC4U.  Those are really beautiful.  The rind is super nice.   Like you say, more like an alpine rind, but still really nice.  I have a little bit of experience with similar cheeses, so I'll tell you what little I know.  Firs a washed curd - washed rind is a bit tricky to go soft.  Essentially, the runniness of the cheese is dependent upon the a couple of factors.  You want to have the right surface area to volume ratio because the b. linens is producing ammonia from the outside.  The more surface area you have, the more b. linens you have and therefore the more ammonia you have.  This ammonia needs to soak into the whole cheese, so the more volume you have, the less runny it will get.  It's a bit of a balance between how much b. linens is growing on the outside and how thick your cheese it.

I think part of your problem is that the b. linens did not really grow long enough on the rind.  You don't have a bright orange, slightly tacky rind.  So humidity and temperature is part of the equation.  I admit that that I find this aspect of washed rinds very challenging.  Especially a Reblochon and something like a port salut is tricky because you are walking a very tight line between too much and too little.  But the biggest thing I can see is that you have a very thick rind on all of your cheeses, which means that it got too dry at some point.  You need the b. linens to be in touch with the moist paste so that it gets the moisture it needs and also so that the ammonia can seep into the paste and soften it.

The other bit is getting the pH of paste right.  With a washed curd, you are limiting the sugar supply for the starter culture.  This means that you have a limited amount of acid production (which is what you want).  However, the amount of whey that you exchange is critical because that decides your final pH -- and the final pH decides how runny your paste will get.  Ironically, the more acid your paste, the more the ammonia will affect it (because it loses its buffing capacity).  If you exchange too much whey, then you will get a firmer texture.  If you exchange too little whey, then you will get a softer texture.  Getting it right requires a few iterations and lots of notes, I think.

A few other things.  You cheese has quite a few eyes in it.  This is because of 2 factors: The first is because the whey is drained from the curd and then it is pressed.  If you want to have less eyes, then you should consolidate the curd in the vat and transfer it to the mould in one big go, or a few big pieces.    Similarly, you can pour the curds into the mould and then pour the whey over it.  Since the holes in the cheese are full of whey, as the whey drains, no air can get in and the cheese will suck itself closed.   Looking at Jim Wallace's recipe, he seems to be forming eyes on purpose.  I have no idea why, because I don't think this is typical for Port Salut... (Although I admit to never having eaten it -- mostly I've had Oka, which is supposed to be similar).

The other main thing is that if the curd is *less* acidic, it will flow.  If it is *more* acidic, it will be hard and stiff.  So when you are putting it in the mould, normally what you want to do with a washed curd is to get it in the mold quickly and let it acidify in the mould.  This lets it flow together, but then eventually get acidic enough that the cheese can get soft later when you age it.  If you want the sides to slump (have that nice curve to it), then you want to remove the cheese from the mould before it has finished acidifying.  Timing is important because too soon and it will slump too much.  Too late and it won't slump at all.  You can see in Jim' pictures that one of his cheeses hasn't even *closed* by the time he's got it in the brine... So, I'm not quite sure what he's trying to accomplish.  His curved sides are due to him using a slant sided basket rather than a straight sided mould.

While I deeply respect Jim Wallace, I think this particular recipe might be a bit suspect (though I would have to look at it more closely and experiment to be sure).  So if that's what you are going with, then it might be part of the problem.

Offline MacGruff

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Re: Any ideas for help with a Port Salut?
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2020, 11:45:46 AM »
Thanks for your excellent comments. As I mentioned in my first posting, I had these cheeses in a too dry environment early on in their development, so that is probably where the problems started. When I make this recipe again, I will definitely not repeat that mistake.

Secondly, I see your comment about surface area to volume. This was a make with two gallons of milk and the mold was a Tomme mold that just held the cheese to the brim (with cheesecloth) when I started pressing. Maybe 4.5" in diameter. What diameter to volume would you suggest? Should I use the same mold, but repeat this with only 1 Gallon of milk so I have twice as much surface area to volume?

Third, I see the discussions of pH level all over these boards. I must convince myself to get a pH meter and learn to use one properly. Sigh.

Finally, the recipe I was using was published by Culture magazine some years back (2016?). It is not from Jim Wallace. I can post it here (with attribution) if there is interest.

Again, thanks for the great pointers.

Offline bansidhe

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Re: Any ideas for help with a Port Salut?
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2021, 09:20:44 PM »
I've just read this as I have a Port Salut aging which should be ready in about 3 weeks or so.  I washed it for two weeks are about 6t8F then put it in the fridge. It's a bright orange color but it's not soft as you describe it should be.  Should I still be washing it?  Thanks!  And Thanks for information in this thread
Making cheese is easy, making a cheese is hard

Offline mikekchar

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Re: Any ideas for help with a Port Salut?
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2021, 11:05:12 PM »
If it's orange, you don't need to wash it any more.  Just wait.  How soft it gets depends on the acidity of the original cheese.  If it was quite acidic, it will get quite soft.  If it was less acidic, it won't.  You want to age it at a very cool temperature (in my experience) or else the b. linens can run away with it.  But generally just keep flipping it every day.  If it starts to grow mold, you can wash it again, but otherwise there is nothing to do.