New to cheesemaking, may have messed up ingredients

[Possum-Pie]

It tastes like a cross between a nice cheddar and the jack.  I cold smoked it which took it to a whole new level of flavor but can cover "tangy" tastes.  I gave half of the wheel to my mother who promptly ate some on crackers and loved it.  She made a mac and cheese with some and stated that it melted smoothly.  I can't complain about the flavor or the "heat" (she is 80 and likes a mild heat) so it was a success except for the crumbly texture. I just made a Gouda that seems to be drying to the same crumbly texture so not sure what is wrong.  As I said, I have not thrown away any of my experiments, they all have good flavor, but except for my first cheese (Asiago) they have all been on the crumbly side. The Asiago was perfect...Cutting with a wire yielded a clean compact slice.

[Aris]

It tastes like a cross between a nice cheddar and the jack.  I cold smoked it which took it to a whole new level of flavor but can cover "tangy" tastes.  I gave half of the wheel to my mother who promptly ate some on crackers and loved it.  She made a mac and cheese with some and stated that it melted smoothly.  I can't complain about the flavor or the "heat" (she is 80 and likes a mild heat) so it was a success except for the crumbly texture. I just made a Gouda that seems to be drying to the same crumbly texture so not sure what is wrong.  As I said, I have not thrown away any of my experiments, they all have good flavor, but except for my first cheese (Asiago) they have all been on the crumbly side. The Asiago was perfect...Cutting with a wire yielded a clean compact slice.

A nice cheddar and jack for me is savory, slightly sweet and slightly sour. They are pretty balanced in taste. If your cheese is noticeably tangy or sour, the issue is excess acidity or pH is too low. I like your story about your mother. My mother loves the non stinky cheeses I make and she is amazed how beautiful they are. It is like she can't believe I can make such beautiful cheeses at home. I actually made a mac and cheese several days ago using my really old cheeses (over 13 months and almost 15 months) and she really enjoyed it. She was surprised on how "meaty" it was. My water buffalo milk cheeses tends to have a meaty or cured meat flavor. Anyway, what recipe did you use for your Pepper Jack?

[Possum-Pie]

Here in America, people like a WIDE variety of cheeses. Many people like "generic" cheese that is mild, great melting, and not exotic. You can buy a block of "Velveta" which is pasteurized cheese spread that has that profile.  Some people are adventurous and buy European cave cheeses or sharp cheeses, but most just want a generic "safe" cheese.  My mother does like the kick of a pepper-infused cheese, but at over 80 years old, doesn't want something that will burn on the way down and burn on the way out...This flavor was perfect, but the crumble was disappointing.

[Aris]

America also have artisan cheesemakers (Jasper Hill, Rogue River creamery, Cowgirl creamery, Parish Hill creamery and etc.) that I find interesting. I am asking about the taste (bitter, umami/savory, sour, sweet and salty) specifically and the recipe you used so I can troubleshoot your issue better.

[Possum-Pie]

I'm not very good at describing the taste of this cheese, but it definitely leans more toward a cheddar flavor than a Monterey Jack. There is no umami, slightly salty, I keep going back to a "sharp" cheddar undertone. 
I'm still wondering about the amount of CaCl.  I have a syringe, I think I'll start using milliliters rather than some small fraction of a teaspoon.

[Aris]

That is from Gavin, do you have a video link? I've checked his jack cheese videos and that isn't it. Ingredients list doesn't really help. I need to know the whole procedure. Gavin's jack cheeses are pretty bad texture wise. If its flavor is more of a cheddar, it means pH is on the low side (4.9-5-1) and it shows in the texture (corky, crumbly) of your cheese. I've had an American Heritage Monterey jack several months ago. It was very different from your typical cheddar. It had a subtle brown butter flavor that I love and a well balanced taste. Just the right amount of saltiness, sweetness and acidity with a very faint bitterness which was actually nice. Its texture was creamy, semi soft like a low moisture mozzarella and pliable. It is the perfect snacking cheese. Iirc Land o Lakes Pepper Jack was very similar. Anyway, try a different recipe. Typical pepper jack or jack cheese recipes where you apply salt directly to the curds are problematic. Give Caciotta cheese a try like I said before. At the end of the day, the result is what matters. For example, I have my own cheese recipes and I can make a "cheddar" like cheese without using a cheddar recipe or without doing any cheddaring. I can also make a cheese that resembles a Gouda or Edam without washing the curds. As you have already experienced, just because you followed a "pepper jack" recipe doesn't mean it will become one.  For me, it is mostly about getting the right pH and moisture content. Many recipes can't guarantee you will get those right and many recipes don't even mention pH.

[mikekchar]

It's the "Triple Pepper Jack" recipe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZsqGS8jHA0

25 ml of buttermilk per liter is crazy.  Whatever.  Anyway, this isn't a Jack.  I don't think Gavin knows what a Jack cheese is.  To be fair, in the US, I think it's pretty common for producers to make a mild cheddar and call it a Jack.  This recipe is super weird.  Too much culture.  40 minute set at 32 C, followed by a 40 minute cook raising to 38 C, drain and straight into the press (and then press the snot out of it right out of the gate).  So it's not a cheddar.  It's not quite a tomme.  It's definitely not a Jack.  I don't know what it is...

[Aris]

Mike,
Yeah you are right, it sure is the triple pepper jack. I actually thought it was the triple jack cheese at first but in his screenshot, the chilis were not included which confused me. Gavin's "pepper jack" is very similar to Possum Pie's cheese texture wise. At least that recipe has some "consistency". I agree it is definitely not a jack. Its moisture content and texture are totally wrong for a "pepper jack".

[Possum-Pie]

 Yes, this was the Gavin triple pepper jack, I deleted the last three ingredients (flakes, powder, oil) b/c I chose not to use them. I used my own dried jalapenos. I just now watched his "taste test" at the end and YES! his was crumbly also. Makes me feel better, probably the recipe, not my technique.  Do you see what he used/did that made it crumbly? I did NOT use buttermilk, I used cultures.

Ok, here is my take-away.  I should follow established cheese recipes found in reliable books until I'm more comfortable.  Just b/c someone has many seemingly successful cheesemaking videos on YouTube doesn't make him an expert.  I started using the videos b/c they were easy to follow while I was actually making cheese. There are A LOT of intricate steps to follow and I could pause the videos. Some of the cheesemaking videos are obviously just "homesteaders" winging it and getting lucky. I've seen some things that made me just move on and not try them.  As I said, my very first cheese a few months ago (Asiago) turned out perfectly in taste and texture. After that, I started experiencing problems.

[Aris]

Yes, this was the Gavin triple pepper jack, I deleted the last three ingredients (flakes, powder, oil) b/c I chose not to use them. I used my own dried jalapenos. I just now watched his "taste test" at the end and YES! his was crumbly also. Makes me feel better, probably the recipe, not my technique.  Do you see what he used/did that made it crumbly? I did NOT use buttermilk, I used cultures.

Ok, here is my take-away.  I should follow established cheese recipes found in reliable books until I'm more comfortable.  Just b/c someone has many seemingly successful cheesemaking videos on YouTube doesn't make him an expert.  I started using the videos b/c they were easy to follow while I was actually making cheese. There are A LOT of intricate steps to follow and I could pause the videos. Some of the cheesemaking videos are obviously just "homesteaders" winging it and getting lucky. I've seen some things that made me just move on and not try them.  As I said, my very first cheese a few months ago (Asiago) turned out perfectly in taste and texture. After that, I started experiencing problems.

Yeah, it is the recipe. I noticed those "intricate steps" especially the cooking, which didn't help with the texture and moisture content for some reason. He cooked the curds for over 70 minutes yet the cheese still retained a lot of whey and it seeped out when he vacuum packed it.


With my Pepper Jack inspired cheese, I only stirred for over 40 minutes at less than 100 f and it was never pressed but I still got the texture and moisture content right. My cheese also had minimal whey seepage in the vacuum bag. In time, you will know what to look for when making and aging cheese and you will be able to adjust on the fly. For me, learning to make cheese got a lot easier when I stopped following recipes and obsessing about following them to the letter over a decade ago. Just following directions and being told what to do won't allow me to learn the inner workings of cheesemaking.

[Possum-Pie]

I got no whey weeping at all, I suspect that all of his chili rub drew out water by osmosis.  I see many people post that they don't press...I think I press too hard and too fast. I don't have a spring and turn the screw until I see clear whey run out. I know pressing forms the shape, but does it really help expel much whey? I never measured it, but I doubt it's much more than a few ccs of liquid.

[Aris]

I got no whey weeping at all, I suspect that all of his chili rub drew out water by osmosis.  I see many people post that they don't press...I think I press too hard and too fast. I don't have a spring and turn the screw until I see clear whey run out. I know pressing forms the shape, but does it really help expel much whey? I never measured it, but I doubt it's much more than a few ccs of liquid.

I think it is more related to the pH of the curds when it was salted. As the cheese/curds develop acidity, whey gets removed naturally which is called syneresis. I used this to my advantage to get the right moisture content and texture. Salting the curds immediately when it has a high pH seems to screw up syneresis. My Pepper Jack and Asiago inspired cheeses below were not pressed. Others say pressing the cheese is needed to expel whey but I can get away not pressing almost all of my cheeses.

[Possum-Pie]

Aris, beautiful pepperjack.  You didn't press it? I expect that is why there were a few small mechanical holes.  The texture looks much more like what I expected from mine.

Another question: When I made my Romano, I saved the whey and made ricotta from it. I got maybe 1.5 cups and was very pleased. When I made the pepper jack and the gouda, I got nothing.  A few small dry curds.  I know many people don't bother with it, but I'd like to get ricotta from the whey if possible.  What would cause such a drastic difference in amount? 

[B e n]

I got no whey weeping at all, I suspect that all of his chili rub drew out water by osmosis.  I see many people post that they don't press...I think I press too hard and too fast. I don't have a spring and turn the screw until I see clear whey run out. I know pressing forms the shape, but does it really help expel much whey? I never measured it, but I doubt it's much more than a few ccs of liquid.

On your pressing, I think a screw press needs the springs, as they give tension over a longer period of time. Unfortunately the rate of pressing is the opposite of what we want, it is high at first then gets lower as the springs begin to relax. The lack of springs makes that even more dramatic, you are starting at a high pressure then have almost none as the cheese expels whey.

I may be misreading, but it seems like you are pressing too hard. You should see just a few little drips of whey coming off. Try rigging your press with one of your empty jugs as a weight. Fill it with just enough water to get a few drops of whey coming off at a time, that will keep you from closing the rind as quickly. It doesn't take a lot of weight, my first press on my mechanical press is often just the weight of the press.

[Possum-Pie]

You are absolutely correct. Without having a spring I am pressing too hard in the beginning and when some whey is expelled the force then lessens  I tend to get excited with a new hobby, and many fizzle out. I've learned over the years not to invest too much until I decide I enjoy it. Thus, I made my press from scraps I had in my workshop. It is almost identical to store-bought ones (I used cherry wood which is hard and resistant to breaks) but my center rod that screws down into the follower has no spring. I tried looking for a spring with a set tensile strength (ie 30lbs) but couldn't find one so I screw down until I start to see whey, wait a bit, screw more, etc. until finally I tighten it down and leave it 12 hrs. or whatever the recipe calls for.  I do have a spring that feels like about a 10lb bag would compress it, I may try to attach that.


I did the same thing with growing gormet mushrooms, I gerry-rigged a lot in the beginning until I knew I liked the hobby, then went out and bought the expensive fruiting tent, humidifier with humidistat, etc.  They pay for themselves over the years only if you don't give up the hobby in disgust and throw them in the attic  ;)