Author Topic: Calcium Chloride - When, Amount, & At What Temperature?  (Read 12989 times)

SANDQ

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Re: Calcium Chloride - When, Amount, & At What Temperature?
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2010, 08:26:19 PM »
Alex, I forgot to ask, how long have you been in Israel?

SANDQ

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Re: Calcium Chloride - When, Amount, & At What Temperature?
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2010, 08:40:09 PM »
Sailor, thanks for a definitive answer on amounts, you say I should see what happens, but I am so new to this I don't really know what I'm looking for yet, could you please enlighten a complete novice.  Thanks Q     

Sailor Con Queso

  • Guest
Re: Calcium Chloride - When, Amount, & At What Temperature?
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2010, 02:23:36 AM »
In order to answer that, I have to ask why you feel you need to use it?

The molecular structure of calcium is a complicated discusssion. But, as a simple explaination, CaCl is generally used to "fix" milk calcium that has been damaged or compromised. This can be from pasteurization, late lactation, poor quality milk, etc. For example, you should usually use it with most store bought milk.

The symptoms that might suggest using CaCl are:
  • You need to use more rennet than "normal"
  • Slow flocculation (early stage of curd set)
  • Slow curd set
  • Weak curd (like thick yogurt or soft pudding)
  • No true "clean break"
  • Excessive loss of milk fat after curd cutting and during "cooking". (whey is white instead of greenish)
  • ... I'm sure there are others, but these are what I look for.
If you aren't having any of these problems, you probably don't need to use CaCl anyway. There are many other variables that can also cause these problems.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 01:26:19 PM by Sailor Con Queso »

Alex

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Re: Calcium Chloride - When, Amount, & At What Temperature?
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2010, 09:50:44 AM »
Quote
Ma Yanim Alex? Sorry for not introducing my self, S and Q is Sally and Quentin, I am Quentin, Q for short! thanks for all the info on labneh. Are you using CaCl, because you are using shop bought milk? Where are you getting goat milk from in Haifa? Why do you think goat milk is better?
Im very impressed with your English, I count 3 languages you must speak

Hakol Sababa,

I use CaCl only when I pasteurize the raw milk. Our store bought milk is suitable for lemon cheese making only. Goats milk I get in Osfyia, a Druize village near Haifa where I have my woodworking shop as well. The Druize and Arab population prefer the Labneh to be made from goat's milk.

Thanks for the complement about my English. Actually I speak Hungarian, Romanian, Hebrew, English and some German that I didn't practice lately. I'm in Israel since April 1961.

iratherfly

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Re: Calcium Chloride - When, Amount, & At What Temperature?
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2010, 04:42:28 PM »
Wow, how did this whole thread flew under my radar? I am the other Haifa guy here... born and raised but living in NYC now. I make Labaneh on regular basis from both Cows' and Goats' milk. I start by making the yogurt. Almost boil milk, cool it down rapidly in a second bowl of ice water to 115F, then add culture. I found yogurt cultures that are quite sour and give you good gelling. I sometime just copy a yogurt that I like by putting a tablespoon of it into the milk instead of purchased culture - works as long as its pure and has no additives. I incubate 6 hours in a yogurt maker, but you can simply use a Thermos. I then drain the whey for 24 hours in fine mesh strainer over a bowl in the refrigerator, turning this into Greek-style yogurt.  I add LITTLE sea salt half way through this (enough salt to help extract more whey but not enough to kill the proactive bacterias - we still need them alive. Do not use iodized salt). I then take it out in cheesecloth and leave it out in approx 65F for a day. The longer I do, the thicker and more sour it is. I found that non-homogenized milk makes much better and firmer yogurt and need no additives such as CalCl or Milk Powder.

If you sabras are into making yogurt, you will love this one; I now take Halva (the stringy type) and mix it in yogurt. it melts right into it giving you a great Halva flavored yogurt. Last time I made too much so I stuck it in my Ice Cream maker and got frozen Halva yogurt to die for.  Try it!

Alex

  • Guest
Re: Calcium Chloride - When, Amount, & At What Temperature?
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2010, 05:01:13 PM »
May I call you "Y"?
1. Nice idea with the Halva :), thanks
2. I wish you paid me a visit when you've been in Haifa, so you owe me ;)
3. We are not Sabras, Quentin is a British expat living in Bulgaria and I was born in Transylvania :D
4. Read the whole thread, it worth it ;D

iratherfly

  • Guest
Re: Calcium Chloride - When, Amount, & At What Temperature?
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2010, 05:20:40 PM »
Sure, Call me Y. Some people here don't get that my user name is I-Rather-Fly (ex-pilot) so they call assume my name is Ira.

You guys are Sabra enough to me - I did read the thread! Being an expat living in NY; I am less Sabra than you are these days :)
Still haven't been back to Haifa. Our winter trip got canceled due to some incoming projects. We are going to Paris next week instead where we will meet my parents (who are coming from Haifa). Maybe nit as sunny, but great cheese :)
I will be in Israel for 2 weeks in July following a week in Spain where I intend to take some cooking or cheese making workshops. You are definitely in my plans for Israel!

Alex

  • Guest
Re: Calcium Chloride - When, Amount, & At What Temperature?
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2010, 05:48:09 PM »
I should be very proud by guessing your nick "I-Rather-Fly".
"due to some incoming projects" - is a very blessed reason to cancell any other plans.
As for July, I will be honored to be visited during such a short stay of yours.

iratherfly

  • Guest
Re: Calcium Chloride - When, Amount, & At What Temperature?
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2010, 10:26:43 PM »
Of course. I intend on making cheese in Israel too. We are not too far. We will have an apartment rented in Tel Aviv by the water but will be in Haifa on the Carmel about half the time. I usually visit every 3-4 months but haven't been since October. I'll make up for my sorrows of missing my homeland by eating more cheese in Paris next week :)
By the way - if you need me to bring anything for cheese for you from here I would be more than happy to

SANDQ

  • Guest
Re: Calcium Chloride - When, Amount, & At What Temperature?
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2010, 11:17:31 PM »
Hey guys what about me? Im 12 years over due a visit! Sabra or not we are all Israelis! Im coming back for the shwarma and humus, mana from heaven. Thanks for the info Y I shall be trying Labneh very soon! Ill let you both know how I get on  Q 

iratherfly

  • Guest
Re: Calcium Chloride - When, Amount, & At What Temperature?
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2010, 05:17:16 AM »
Keep us posted. If you haven't been in Israel in a while you would be shocked by the culinary scene. All these chefs who worked in the US, Europe and even Japan came back to a booming economy and opened incredible cafes, restaurants, bakeries, boutique wineries and yes - many small artisanal cheese operations from Israelis who trained for many years in Italy and France. A new breed of supermarkets now offer everything you can find in their European and American counterparts and local produce is incredible and fresh.  I still think that Haifa is the world capital of Falafel though. I seriously considered starting an artisanal food operation there recently but I am now launching a tech startup in New York and Tel Aviv

Alex

  • Guest
Re: Calcium Chloride - When, Amount, & At What Temperature?
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2010, 02:19:18 PM »
Y,
A nice way of consolation missing the homeland ::). So, I wish you happy cheesing there. 8)
Let me consider your very kind proposal in the future, thanks.

Q,

Nice to hear you feel Israeli, It's flattering me as an Israeli citizen. 12 years over? It's time to break the drought. Haifa is the capital of the Falafel and Shawarma in Israel, as well as the best area of genuine oriental food.

cheesehead

  • Guest
Re: Calcium Chloride - When, Amount, & At What Temperature?
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2010, 06:35:33 PM »
For me, starter addition is independent of CaCl2 addition.   Color is added at the beginning and CaCl2 is added mid vat fill and rennet at the very end.  I try to keep as short of ripening time as possible to reduce phage infection risk.  Starter is added 3/4 way into filling the vat.

SANDQ

  • Guest
Re: Calcium Chloride - When, Amount, & At What Temperature?
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2010, 08:27:53 PM »
Sailor, My main reason for choosing to use CaCl was that I was using milk sterilized to 82 C, and being a novice I didnt realize the damage it was doing to my milk, when being used for cheese. I have now switched to using raw milk and can see a dramatic difference in the curd, and thus dont think I need to use Ca Cl now. I obviously have learned here that any cheese I make from raw milk has to be aged for 60 days at least. Thanks for the input  Q

SANDQ

  • Guest
Re: Calcium Chloride - When, Amount, & At What Temperature?
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2010, 09:56:40 PM »
Hey Alex,
Let me first correct my Hebrew  Ma Inyanim!  I have just seen your pics on another thread stretching curd. It makes it all a bit more personal now having seen you face. I'm not computer literate so wouldn't know how to post pics here, but If you can get access to a back issue of LA EISHA magazine  December 1996 There is a 4 page article on myself and my ex wife! Might explain a bit more as to why I feel Israeli.
I know the Druze village you are talking about I worked on Moshav Habonim in the Refet for about a year. I can understand Labneh being made from goats milk now you have put a mental picture back in my mind
Not tried Labneh yet as not been able to connect to the web for days and get the recipe but it is on my list of things to do, and soon!   Lahitraot   Q