Best place to buy Kadova molds

[Boofer]

Looking at my new little (450g) Kadova moulds... there must be a dozen patents for countries. They're listed on the lids.

linuxboy - are you thinking of trying to duplicate the Kadova style of mould?

I would agree that today's technology should permit a dramatic reduction in costs for new production if there was a way to do it.

-Boofer-

[linuxboy]

Well, if I'm going to model it in Solidworks/CAD, I'm going to put some thought into it to try and come up with a design that doesn't use cheesecloth, and is easy to clean. Technically, neither Kadova nor microperf molds fit the latter criterion, but cleaning is manageable with both. I have to be careful about patent issues so no straight duplication. This will take a while, so if anyone wants Kadova molds, we can buy through Ivarson, or if we get enough people (I think with 50 molds at a time Sonoco would sell directly), then directly.

I'm still stuck on the idea that there's no reason plastic parts should cost that much. I think we as a community can arrive at a better solution for everyone.

[Amatolman]

Well, if I'm going to model it in Solidworks/CAD, I'm going to put some thought into it to try and come up with a design that doesn't use cheesecloth, and is easy to clean. Technically, neither Kadova nor microperf molds fit the latter criterion, but cleaning is manageable with both. I have to be careful about patent issues so no straight duplication. This will take a while, so if anyone wants Kadova molds, we can buy through Ivarson, or if we get enough people (I think with 50 molds at a time Sonoco would sell directly), then directly.

I'm still stuck on the idea that there's no reason plastic parts should cost that much. I think we as a community can arrive at a better solution for everyone.

I felt the same way when I first looked at them.

[linuxboy]

So I just looked up all the patents listed. Am I missing something or was the last one in 1993 and is now expired? Design patents don't last forever. Can a few of you post the patent numbers on your molds? Maybe yours are different? Because if the patents are now expired, there's nothing preventing us from duplicating them and offering a generic substitute at a much lower cost. I keep thinking I'm missing something, because the raw cost of production even using rapid prototyping is something like 10% of what they're charging.

[Boofer]

These are from my small (450g) Kadova moulds:

Argentinie pat. 164.931
Belgium pat. 616.385
Danisch pat. 98.923
France pat. 1.339.247
German pat. 1.140.012
Italian pat. 54.897
Ned. pat. 112.408
South Africa pat. 67/4969
U.S.A pat. 3.154.853
United Kingdom 1.161.426
Zwitserland pat. 477.813

-Boofer-

[linuxboy]

Yep, boofer, same numbers I have. There are newer patents for microperf and other designs, and some of those are still valid for another three years. But those designs and patents you posted are from the 1960s. There's nothing stopping us from copying the gouda and tomme and loaf and similar classic Kadova types exactly. Marketing and sales has to be exact - cannot infringe on the Kadova brand, but they've been running a monopoly on those molds for nearly half a century. Maybe it's time for a change.

[wharris]

God I love the free market.  Make this happen!  How can I help?
You know who would be a great help here?
Cartierusm.  He has the background and the gear.

[scubagirlwonder]

Seriously LB and Wayne, you guys are inspiring!!! I really hope this idea works!! I don't know what I can do to help, but I'd love to help anyway I can! WOuldn't it be amazing if we could make wonderful molds that are actually affordable?!
Let me know if there is anything I can do!
~Cheers

[linuxboy]

Good idea. I'll PM him. I have what some people call "a problem with authority", so I'm willing to fund an initial trial run.

[Gürkan Yeniçeri]

I love you guys. LB make this happen and I will be your AU distributor. All I need is an importers license...

[Cartierusm]

I've been asked to join this discussion...you people make me sick -- Up with the RED flag..long live Lennon (Not John Lennon.) >:D

OK back to capitalism. As far as production of injection molding I do not see how this would make anything cheaper. I could draw up and engineer a new mold in about an hour. I could even machine the aluminum molds, but by the time the molds are made and you find a company with a real injection molding machine you are in probably close to 100,000. A block of aluminum just for a single size mold is going to be around $2000. The machining alone would be extraordinary. With all the little pins for the perf cut into a mold would take an enourmous amount of machining time, I wouldn't be surprised if a mold making shop would charge $50,000 - $150,000.

I'm not trying to discourage out the box thinking and money saving but there is no way this will be cheaper. I'll put my head into it and see if I can come up with something.

[scubagirlwonder]

OK back to capitalism. As far as production of injection molding I do not see how this would make anything cheaper. I could draw up and engineer a new mold in about an hour. I could even machine the aluminum molds, but by the time the molds are made and you find a company with a real injection molding machine you are in probably close to 100,000. A block of aluminum just for a single size mold is going to be around $2000. The machining alone would be extraordinary. With all the little pins for the perf cut into a mold would take an enourmous amount of machining time, I wouldn't be surprised if a mold making shop would charge $50,000 - $150,000.

Looking into injection molding....there are companies that will manufacture products by using a customer's own CAD design for less than $1500US....Just FYI...(granted prices will vary depending on sizes etc......but hey, it's a start)

[linuxboy]

I guess that was the piece I was missing. I didn't realize it was quite that expensive to machine the molds, but it makes sense. Especially given the size of the larger molds, it would take a sizeable machine to be able to produce them.

If your numbers are right, it would take about 500-1,000 pieces selling at their prices just to break out even and pay for the R&D. That's rather significant. I was hoping for a breakeven below 200.

I'm not giving up, going to see what quotes I get back. Perhaps a computerized CNC machine could take a solidworks or similar CAM file and use modified epoxy/metal mold substrate that's cheaper and softer than aluminum, and that could be used for a limited volume run. That would save on machining costs because of the softer substrate, and reduce overall mold costs. Mold life would be short (probably 5,000-10,000 units), admittedly, but for this project it could work.

[Sailor Con Queso]

We occasionally do product design and production for clients. Last mold that we did was produced overseas and still cost over $15000. If you're making millions of parts that's easy to amortize.

An alternative might be RTV molding and urethane casting instead of injection molding.

[Minamyna]

What do you guys think about molds made out of stainless steel mesh, really heavy duty grade? I asked my uncle to help me with a wooden cheese press and he said stainless steel would be easier, so he bought a cylinder thingy and it came yesterday. I am very excited.

When we started talking about hoops and he thought we should try some really heavy duty grade stainless steel mesh with cheese cloth.

Do you think that would be okay?

(I hope this isn't thread jacking? If so maybe john can move it to another thread? Sorry if it is....)