Underground cave

[coffee joe]

I am just breaking ground on an underground cave. Having done a bunch of reading, I figure I can age about 2000 Kg( 2 tons) in a 250ft² cave for a bit over 90 days with lots of shelves.

- 4-10ft underground
-I have a source of pine board so that will be the shelves.
-We build our walls here out of granite blocks, so it will be cavelike
-Going to use a CoolBot on a LG split air conditioner so I'll be ok with temps
-I can't go quite to a barrel ceiling but it will be pretty well curved. 10 ft walls before the curve
-Double doors, concrete floor, gutter down both long sides
-humidity I am still looking for a recording hygrometer

Air exchange is something I'm not quite sure about, how much? how often?
I've found nothing in the way of plans, designs or volumes needed for air.
I have visited a few nice caves, natural ones are pretty well done by Mother nature, man made ones always seem stuffy. a feeling I would like to fix if possible.
- Humidity I usually have plenty of but I will need some system to get me through our dry winters.

[BigCheese]

So much jealousy!

I have two "caves" (fridge and freezer). One (for blues) is 15 min from my house. The other (for all other cheeses) is 1 hour and 45 min. I worry about my darlings in far off caves...

[Sailor Con Queso]

Joe - Why do you feel the need to use a CoolBot and air conditioner?

[coffee joe]

I have been recording the underground temps for about a year. We have been running between 15 ºC just recently, and this is the first week of winter, with a high in January, our summer of 23 º.
The A/C unit seems enough to keep the temp in the 11ºC max range and uses allot less energy and1/3 the price of a walk-in reefer unit.

Open to ideas. this is why I'm putting these things out there, need comments

[coffee joe]

Sailor - One point, in Seattle the ground holds the cool of Winter, here seems to hold the hot of Summer. That being said, I think that once I get the soil surrounding my walls down to 10ºC, it will keep there easily. I will be almost 5 ft deep at the shallowest.

[Oude Kaas]

Here's a link to a study done about cheese caves. It's at the right hand side:

http://www.silverymooncheese.com/

There's a lot of good and useful information in the writings of Peter Dixon, mainly in issues Spring 2002, Spring 2006 and Summer 2007:

http://www.dairyfoodsconsulting.com/publications.shtml

I love my Coolbot

[coffee joe]

Oude Kaas

thanks for the link, just the type of detail I need to start calculations

[Tropit]

Ohhhhhh....I want one of those!  I don't think our county building codes would allow it.  There have been a few wineries that have tried to get them through, but without much luck.  This is earthquake country.  I've thought of just going for it anyway and fill it in and pay the fine if I get caought, but I think that the fines are pretty hefty.

Pix Please!

~ C.

[Gina]

Tropit, I have good friends in your county that bought a home with an excavated/underground bomb shelter. It had a stairway leading down about 5 feet, a concrete dome/roof, and 2 small rooms leading off either side of the stairs. It was always cool and dank and the kids used to play in it. I always thought it would make a neat wine cellar, and now, cheese cave. Unfortunately they permanently closed it up.

Perhaps one could get a permit for building a 'bomb shelter' and use it for other things. 

[FRANCOIS]

You need to calculate your fresh air volume based on the air speed and number of desired air changes.  Peter Dixon has some the most useful info on the subject.  2 Tons of cheese will produce massive amounts of ammonia, which is heavier than air and highly corrosive to most any equiment you'll use in the cave.  You will need to size your AC for the fresh air load on the worst day, you can get climate data from ASHRAE for your area.  I have seen many commercial caves, I don't think I have seen one yet that worked perfectly.  Also, check with your local authority if you'll be using the cave for commerical product, they will most likely require a pasteurizer for the wooden shelves.

[DeejayDebi]

Congrats on the cave must be a wonderful feeling!

[coffee joe]

Here is the first step in our underground cave. Reminds me of the days I owned a boat. A boat is a hole in the water in which to pour money. A Cheese Cave, hopefully unlike a boat, will be a hole in the ground in which to safely store ours.   

[Groves]

Here is the first step in our underground cave. Reminds me of the days I owned a boat. A boat is a hole in the water in which to pour money. A Cheese Cave, hopefully unlike a boat, will be a hole in the ground in which to safely store ours.

Any way you can give us a rundown of what you've done already, and the major steps coming up? Great picture.

[coffee joe]

As to what has been done here so far, is summed up mostly in planning and design.
The structure is going to be rock walls with barrel ceiling of poured concrete.
4' of earth on top is a structural challenge.
Double entry with sanitary section before entry into the vault.
Airflow calculations took us a while but I think this has been handled.
Foundations and drainage are the next steps.
24,000 BTU Split A/C with Coolbot for cold as underground ground temps average around 60ºF

[Sailor Con Queso]

Very cool Joe.