Surface Mold, Unwanted - Discussion > Geotrichum candidum Discussion

[Jessica_H]

Hello,

I'm trying to learn more about mold.  I've made 7 cheeses now.  1 is a Tomme that I plan on doing an oiled rind.  I've been drying my cheeses in my basement at about 55 degrees and 55% humidity.  I've had a little mold growth...small white and blue and maybe black patches that are quickly and easily wiped off.

I went out of town and left my cheese for 3 days.  3 of my cheeses drying had no mold growth...but the Tomme went nuts.  At first I thought this might be a good thing, an opportunity to try a natural rind?  But when I smelled the mold it just smelled like wet basement...so I wiped it all down and plan on oiling tomorrow.  The mold was all white and blue...very common looking.

Am I right that I couldn't have used that mold to create a rind?

What's the "geo" mold talked a lot about on the forums?  Where else can I read about types of molds?  I didn't see any wiki's on this site or LBs site...

[captaincurd]

Geotrichum is a  group of molds -  I think that the smell of an old wet rag comes from  a geo.   some Geos have a white appearance.  One of the common opportunistic blue molds is Pennicilium glaucum  (unless you have had another blue cheese in the area, in which case P.roqueforti  is another candidate. )  The molds  grow like mushrooms sending  roots called mycellia into the insides of the cheese. where they  break down the fats and proteins  and create different flavors and textures.- think brie or Camembert.

If you are really at such low relative humidity these molds could be coming from either not enough air circulation, or inadequately dried cheese before you start to age it.

[Jessica_H]

The mold on my Tomme looked like this:
https://cheeseforum.org/articles/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Two-4-pound-Goudas-at-30-days-age-with-oiled-rinds-one-cleaned-of-mold-second-with-blue-surface-mold-due-to-improper-aging-humidity-CheeseForum.org_.jpg

[Jessica_H]

Here's a photo of my Tomme after I've picked and scrubbed at it.


I read in another thread that whey geo causes a wrinkly rind?

Whey geo overwhelms, it tends to form this wrinkly type rind.

Is that what I'm seeing here?

I've got the cheese pretty clean (you can see in the first photo) but there are still specs of mold.  I'm going out of town for 5 days and I was wanting to oil the Tomme once before I left to help keep the mold off for the 5 days I'm gone. 

Does the mold need to be 100% off before I do that?

[Jessica_H]

Bump  ;D

I'm going to oil (and cyanne pepper) tonight.  Is anyone willing to comment if I can oil over the amount of mold you see in the photo?  Or do I really need to scrap each bit off?

[KosherBaker]

I don't have a definitive answer just a couple of cents worth of info. I've oiled one of my cheeses that looked almost exactly like yours, as far as the mold is concerned, even down to the color. :) The mold on that cheese has not spread once it was oiled, nor has the discoloration gone away. Now that this cheese is finally ready to be used, I'll be cutting those areas away as I get to them, since those are not the kind of mushrooms I want in my food. ??? :o ;D
I used just olive oil for my rub. If you add Cayenne to yours it will make it very hard to see where those molds are, once it is time to eat this cheese.

HTH

[Boofer]

If you add Cayenne to yours it will make it very hard to see where those molds are, once it is time to eat this cheese.

Ah, adventures in fine dining....  8)

-Boofer-

[iratherfly]

Your cheese looks a bit dry (at least on top). Even though the wrinkles look like they came from your mold or cheesecloth it could be related to accelerated drying. Geo wrinkling happens more in soft cheese where the geo creates a rind fast, before the cheese is done releasing its moisture. As it releases the moisture it shrinks and the mold just kind of folds on itself.

I would advise you to actually NOT fear the mold and start managing it. The mold is what gives your cheese its character and keeps it safe from pathogens and competing bacteria. Not all blue mold that isn't Roqueforti is bad. Many cheese types get mysterious and fantastic molds based on their aging environment. It could be something in a cave, pollen, nearby trees and ground, yeasts etc.  If you have overgrowth, control it by reducing humidity and rubbing salt. If you have acute spotting of mold (as opposed to general bloom coverage) you can treat it by blotting simple vinegar onto it and then sprinkle a bit of salt on the affected spot. That should stop it.

As for Chayanne - Why? Oh, Why?  I don't understand why you would want to fake a rind color and flavor a cheese when you can grow a real one and let your milk speak for itself.  Keep the cheese clean. If you want Chayanne flavor, pair it with food that has it. In any event, be confident about a particular cheese expected results before you begin adding spices and flavors to them.  You can end up destroying a really nice cheese that took you a lot of time and milk to create.

[Boofer]

If you have overgrowth, control it by reducing humidity and rubbing salt. If you have acute spotting of mold (as opposed to general bloom coverage) you can treat it by blotting simple vinegar onto it and then sprinkle a bit of salt on the affected spot. That should stop it.

I have had good success using these methods combined with a clean toothpick dipped in vinegar&salt to remove what I consider "foreign" intrusions. By foreign, I am referring to something that I believe I didn't add or expect to be there.

The thing is, you have to be vigilant and remove the intruders as soon as possible. The photo shows an infection that I believed should not be in one of my cheeses. Rubbing with vinegar&salt cleared it up.

-Boofer-

[george]

Boofer, I'm jealous.  I've seen pictures like this in other threads, but I have yet to create such a cool-looking invader myself.   

"My god, it's full of stars" ...  >:D

[OudeKaas]

Boofer, I'm jealous.  I've seen pictures like this in other threads, but I have yet to create such a cool-looking invader myself.   

"My god, it's full of stars" ...  >:D

Hah, your quote made my morning. "All these cheeses are yours, except for Boofer's - attempt no eating there!"

[iratherfly]

Indeed, an awesome contamination Boofer!

I think you had issues with bread crumbs. Often it looks like that when they contaminate. (Could be on your hands before dealing with the cheese, on the aging container, the cheese smear cloth/brush/sponge, in the brine container or bacterial wash container, on the aging shelf or on an instrument used to deal with the cheese. Could also happen if the cheese either swim in its own whey or condensed moisture made up water droplets on the lid or side of the aging container or cave, which then dropped onto your cheese.

Also your Geo growth is very spotted and high. Brush the cheese!!! flatten that geo and bruise the rind a little bit. It will grow better and more evenly and will have a chance to outcompete the contaminator or at least help it.

[Boofer]

Indeed, an awesome contamination Boofer!

I think you had issues with bread crumbs. Often it looks like that when they contaminate. (Could be on your hands before dealing with the cheese, on the aging container, the cheese smear cloth/brush/sponge, in the brine container or bacterial wash container, on the aging shelf or on an instrument used to deal with the cheese. Could also happen if the cheese either swim in its own whey or condensed moisture made up water droplets on the lid or side of the aging container or cave, which then dropped onto your cheese.

Also your Geo growth is very spotted and high. Brush the cheese!!! flatten that geo and bruise the rind a little bit. It will grow better and more evenly and will have a chance to outcompete the contaminator or at least help it.

Thanks for your guidance. The photo was from my first washed-rind cheese, Esrom, and I only added b. linens to the milk and then washed with brine. The cheese is gone as of yesterday.

So, geo is everywhere? It just happens to drop out of the air? I use latex gloves when I handle my cheeses. I got tired of constantly washing my hands, drying them, and worrying about what may still linger in the crevices of my hands. No bread is out on the counter or being made when I'm making cheese. For every wash, I make a fresh brine and use new paper towel to wipe with. My wife and dog are not allowed into the kitchen during my 6-hour cheese make. I typically start the make at 6:00AM.

I guess the problem could have been a resident infection that got into my aging container, though I have tried to ensure that no moisture accumulates or drips on my cheese.

I apologize, Jessica. I did not mean to hijack your thread. The cheese with the infection photo has been consumed.

-Boofer-

[iratherfly]

Well, Geo is naturally occurring in the milk to begin with. We inoculate it to strengthen it and make it grow faster. (Remember that Geo has been relied upon in cheese for hundreds of years before anyone gave it a name and made it in labs). Then, geo would definitely exist in your cheese cave from previous cheese.

Aging container - if it's plastic, it is porous. I always sanitize them before I put a cheese in them. I use Star San. You can also use boiling water for 10 minutes.  Animal dandruff flying around the house can be the issue too. Also, this could be totally unrelated to the cheesemaking and more about baking or bread crumbs or animal or hands that touched other foods handling the cheese DURING its aging.  Usually a contaminated make will spoil an entire cheese. A spotted isolated issue is more likely to be related to a post-make contamination

[Boofer]

I se StarSan during the make, but between makes I use boiling water and the resulltant steam in the closed container.

Yes, I would agree. The contamination I photographed could have come from most anywhere. I make every effort to minimize contamination: StarSan, gloves, no other activity in the make area, not allowing the cheese to touch anything that wasn't clean... for a few guidelines. It could have been airborne, just floating about, although no windows were open at the time as I recall.

-Boofer-