Vacuum Plastic Sealing - Why No Botulism?

[OlJarhead]

Aw, come on, folks...it's really not a big deal.  Just grab every scientific, cultural and historical text, likely, related to dairy, husbandry and cheese making, retain it fully after a cursory first run, and implement and improve upon it in an energy output rivaling Rabelais's Gargantua and Pantagruel, and you, too, can opine on anything known to turophilic mankind - as easily as if it were rudimentary and ubiquitous knowledge. ;D

Now THAT is kinda funny :)  I must be reading several forums and books (mostly on History and Homesteading) and understand the challenge of doing just that!!!  But it's funny because I can fully relate and appreciate the Knowledge LinuxBoy clearly has (as is obvious many if not most or all here do).

[ArnaudForestier]

Now THAT is kinda funny :)

KINDA funny? 

That's it.  I'm going to go read "Syneresis of submerged single grains and curd rheology" for laughs.  This place is a morgue.

[tananaBrian]

Aw, come on, folks...it's really not a big deal.  Just grab every scientific, cultural and historical text, likely, related to dairy, husbandry and cheese making, retain it fully after a cursory first run, and implement and improve upon it in an energy output rivaling Rabelais's Gargantua and Pantagruel, and you, too, can opine on anything known to turophilic mankind - as easily as if it were rudimentary and ubiquitous knowledge. ;D

...I only had to look up one big word  ;)

Brian

[ArnaudForestier]

Glad I've done my part to keep at least one of the 170,000 words of the English language from falling into desuetude. ;)

"I also wanted to attack - this is saying the same thing, really - the contemporary idea that there is something noble about the inarticulate hero.  About James Dean and all his literary children and grandchildren.  I don't admire beats, bums, junkies, psychopaths and inarticulates.  i feel sorry for them."

- John Fowles, Conversations with John Fowles

[WhiteSageFarms]

linuxboy,

Thank you so much for the information... I appreciate your reply very much. This is one I am saving.

Best regards,
Laurie

It's an easy answer made complicated by bacteriology in general and dairy science and contamination specifically. To put it simply, the combination of raw material, handling, bacterial ecosystem, and affinage make it difficult for botulism spores to gain a foothold and to grow. ...

[JayW]

I was just reading some back posts on the forum here and just had to jump in here on the botulism thing.
https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?action=post;topic=6794.0;last_msg=48547
I totally agree with L-B on a properly made cheese being very difficult for C.botulinm to set up housekeeping within due to the environment of a properly made cheese.
HOWEVER.
I have seen some real science projects in home cheese making where things have not gone well. Especially failed fermentations with plenty of lactose and moisture in the curds when they get pressed. I do suspect that this would be an ideal environment for some stray spores to get going in. This would be even worse if they decided to plastic pak the cheese. Not even mentionioning undersalting etc.
Maybe I am just playing the devils advocate here and perhaps should focus on preaching about proper fermentations and acid targets but just throwing it out there.

   .......  jim@cheesemaking.com

[Sailor Con Queso]

It is unlikely that an infected cheese would ever make it to an edible stage. C. botulinum produces a TON of gas and would most likely just explode the cheese. And it has a rotten egg smell that is a clear warning. This shows up every now and then in the grocery stores, often canned beans, where the can is obviously deformed by the internal pressure of the gas.

The botulinum toxin is easily destroyed with cooking. But the best advice is If it stinks, don't eat it. ;)

[DeejayDebi]

It has always amazed me how much of the scientific stuff Pav, Ed  and Francous can remember. I've read it absorbed it, made tables from it all and forgot it like where I left my keys and they just pull it out like it's on the tips of their fingers. It's even funnier when someone quotes something I did and it doesn't ring any bells - must be getting old!

In any event I for one would just like to say you are truely loved and appreciated!

{{{{{{{BIG HUGS!}}}}}}}}}

[stephmtl222]

It is unlikely that an infected cheese would ever make it to an edible stage. C. botulinum produces a TON of gas and would most likely just explode the cheese. And it has a rotten egg smell that is a clear warning. This shows up every now and then in the grocery stores, often canned beans, where the can is obviously deformed by the internal pressure of the gas.

The botulinum toxin is easily destroyed with cooking. But the best advice is If it stinks, don't eat it. ;)

Just in case you come here in a search of information about botulism risks with vaccum packed cheese, please note that clostridium botulinum is not detectable by sight or smell.
« c. botulinum contaminated product may appear to be safe (no off odors or appearance), even when it may not be safe any longer. C. bot also grows better when it does not need to compete with spoilage organism growth. » - Dr. Londa Nwadike, former UVM Extension Food Safety Specialist, June 2013



See the link bellow for a good review on the risk of c botulinum contamination of vaccum packed cheeses. In summary, assuming proper cheese production, the risk is not zero but generally low. Some varieties have a little more risks, depending on cheese salt-in-moisture/water activity, moisture on a fat-free basis, pH.

https://www.specialistcheesemakers.co.uk/media/Download.aspx?MediaId=151