Author Topic: Brie & Camembert - Ripening Time > Wooden Boxes & Wrapping Paper Discussion  (Read 13682 times)

FRANCOIS

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Re: Brie & Camembert - Ripening Time > Wooden Boxes & Wrapping Paper Discussion
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2011, 10:36:56 AM »
Fromagex used to have a good selection of wooden boxes.  We have them here, imported from France, but honestly they aren't worth the money.

MattK

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Re: Brie & Camembert - Ripening Time > Wooden Boxes & Wrapping Paper Discussion
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2011, 02:43:57 PM »
-Boofer- I actually have those boxes, and that's where the cheeses are currently located (in foil first).

I popped one in the freezer yesterday, and moved it to the fridge this AM. I'll get to room temp tonight, and see if there's a difference. If not (or if not bad), I'm thinking of vac-sealing them in their card-wood boxes and freezing..I'll keep you posted!

Thanks all for the feedback - what a great board :)

MattK

iratherfly

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Re: Brie & Camembert - Ripening Time > Wooden Boxes & Wrapping Paper Discussion
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2011, 07:28:30 PM »
Hi Matt. I have had those in the freezer for 2-4 weeks in Camembert boxes on top of which I vacuum sealed a bag with the FoodSaver.  The really bad effect starts a week or two through the freezing. They just get nasty. Not spoiled or anything, just the same texture as if you would use a vinegar or citric acid to start them instead of bacteria. Kind of fluffy in a weird way. No longer supple and knotted into a uniform pâté.  Let me know if you get better results. Post photos if you can!

I also suggest you avoid foil with these. If you must wrap, use a good cheese paper or perforated cellophane. Foil is used on blue cheeses to PREVENT and RECEDE rind growth.  If you are interested, Boofer and I were talking about putting together a group purchase for the high tech Expaco paper which is what companies like Ile de France use for their cheese. It comes in massive 1000-sheet boxes so we were thinking of splitting it 10 way.

Which boxes did you get? All wood? or wood + cardboard with wood print? or cardboard only?

Offline Boofer

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Re: Brie & Camembert - Ripening Time > Wooden Boxes & Wrapping Paper Discussion
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2011, 01:18:09 AM »
I also suggest you avoid foil with these. If you must wrap, use a good cheese paper or perforated cellophane.
I have used the cheese paper pictured here with good results. The latest is my Taleggio #2. Good stuff.

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

cheesequeen

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Re: Brie & Camembert - Ripening Time > Wooden Boxes & Wrapping Paper Discussion
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2011, 01:56:57 AM »
I have used these cheesepaper for my cam and they are good. Wrap the cam in these cheesepaper first of course and then wrap in foil if you want to experiment putting them in freezer when they are ripe. Then thaw in fridge and then room temp before serving. Please let us know outcome good or bad. We all hope for the good of course.
I am interested to buy cheesepaper in bulk rate and cam wood boxes for storage.
Whoever is coordinating, please put me on you to buy list. I truly appreciate it.
Thanks and Happy Cheesemaking to all! Tis the season fa la la la la!!!! 8)

iratherfly

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Re: Brie & Camembert - Ripening Time > Wooden Boxes & Wrapping Paper Discussion
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2011, 06:15:14 AM »
Boofer the Tallegios look nice. How did they come out?

I have used their cheesepaper and it suffocated the rind of my cams to shreds. I also used formaticum and it was even worst. The Expaco blew me away. It's really high tech. you use one side for some cheeses ans the other side for others. It is the only paper that can work on bloomy, washed, natural and blue.

Funny as this thread is going, yesterday I got a French Sheep's milk Fromage Blanc France. I have had it in France and loved its delicious creamy texture so I was looking forward to spreading it on a cracker with a couple of slices of Persian cucumber and a dash of dill. I was very disappointed to find it chalky, crumbly and weird. The texture was familiar... and then I remembered where from: Fromage Blanc was a staple in our household. When I was a teenager my parents attempted to keep it in the freezer so that they don't have a no-fromage blanc emergency if they run out. That wast that texture. The cheese monger or dumbass distributor had probably frozen it. Come to think of it, that was this texture degradation that I got with my frozen Camemberts. It's just wreaks havoc on cheese, and just shouldn't happen. You don't need to have a delicate palate to be able to tell the difference...

There is however one technique that works for long preservation without freezing: Nitrogen packing. It basically puts the food to sleep. Vegetables in bags are packed that way (noticed that in suprtmarket the bagged veggies are no longer in vacuum? that's because the bags are pumped with nitrogen). They also pack fresh pasta this way, grated cheese etc. They use it in wineries in bulk tanks for grapes to keep them fresh and in food transport via trucks, trains and ships. Much of the time sensitive cheese brought over from Europe is brought in sealed containers pumped in nitrogen. (that's the only way a Crottin that's ripe at day 14 can make it to America and still be at day 14 in the shop).  I haven't done it at home yet but I am ready to test and report.

The technique is simple. First vacuum the cheese. then, when there is no air left in the bag stick a needle from the nitrogen tank in the corner of the bag and pump it so that the bag is loose but not too pumped. Take the needle out and cover it with your finger or tape to prevent air from coming in. Put the corner only back in the vacuum sealer and seal without vacuuming. Voila! Home made nitrogen pack.

Offline Boofer

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Re: Brie & Camembert - Ripening Time > Wooden Boxes & Wrapping Paper Discussion
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2011, 08:49:00 AM »
Boofer the Tallegios look nice. How did they come out?
I should be able to report on them either tomorrow or Saturday. It will be in their thread.

The technique is simple. First vacuum the cheese. then, when there is no air left in the bag stick a needle from the nitrogen tank in the corner of the bag and pump it so that the bag is loose but not too pumped. Take the needle out and cover it with your finger or tape to prevent air from coming in. Put the corner only back in the vacuum sealer and seal without vacuuming. Voila! Home made nitrogen pack.
What a great idea.

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

iratherfly

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Re: Brie & Camembert - Ripening Time > Wooden Boxes & Wrapping Paper Discussion
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2011, 10:54:37 PM »
I just told my wife I need a nitrogen tank. Oh boy, the look on her face. Walking on eggshells here. That nitrogen tank better pay the rent.

dthelmers

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Re: Brie & Camembert - Ripening Time > Wooden Boxes & Wrapping Paper Discussion
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2011, 08:51:11 AM »
Home brewing suppliers have quite small tanks available. A 2-1/2 lb. size is pretty easy to hide.

iratherfly

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Re: Brie & Camembert - Ripening Time > Wooden Boxes & Wrapping Paper Discussion
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2011, 03:21:08 PM »
there are even smaller ones for paintball guns

FRANCOIS

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Re: Brie & Camembert - Ripening Time > Wooden Boxes & Wrapping Paper Discussion
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2011, 08:53:38 PM »
This technique is called gas flushing.  Pure nitrogen is an expensive way to go and not really needed.  Most manufacturers use a CO2/N blend.  It is only suitable for pressed presses, with some exceptions.  You can't gas flush camembert though, it will die and you won't stop anerobic ripening anyway. 

Traditional camembert from France is young in your supermarket because it's air freighted in containers.

iratherfly

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Re: Brie & Camembert - Ripening Time > Wooden Boxes & Wrapping Paper Discussion
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2011, 02:13:47 AM »
Thanks for that info Francois. The thing is I know from the former affinieur and cave manager at Murray's that some of the FRESHER cheese they get such as Crottin come in pressurized gas containers that put them to sleep.  I also know from a winery owner in NY that he trucks grapes all the way from CA. They pick them in Sonoma county at 3-4am when they are "asleep" and put them in a nitrogen tanker that makes the 4-5 day trip to NY. When they unload them they are virtually responding like grapes that were picked 3 hours ago.  I have not seen the cheese containers I am talking about but I really want to look into it.

How much anerobic activity is there on PC and Geo?  Geo can probably go nuts but PC really halts without oxygen

FRANCOIS

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Re: Brie & Camembert - Ripening Time > Wooden Boxes & Wrapping Paper Discussion
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2011, 09:31:11 AM »
It's the first I've heard of shipping mold ripened cheeses that way.  I've done trials on crumbled blue flushed in CO2/N and it certainly didn't slow anything down in terms of flavour development.  Linux may know more.

iratherfly

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Re: Brie & Camembert - Ripening Time > Wooden Boxes & Wrapping Paper Discussion
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2011, 09:16:06 AM »
I will go down there and try to get more info.  This is important to me because I intend on competing in some contests and need to sheep perfect cheese.

ellenspn

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Re: Brie & Camembert - Ripening Time > Wooden Boxes & Wrapping Paper Discussion
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2011, 02:04:05 PM »
I will go down there and try to get more info.  This is important to me because I intend on competing in some contests and need to sheep perfect cheese.

Freudian slip? ;)