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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => ADJUNCT - Rennet Surface White Mold (Penicillium candidum) Ripened => Topic started by: Tea on July 08, 2011, 07:34:41 AM
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Hi Brie I didn't want to derail the other thread so have put the pic here. This is a triple cream brie, made two large wheels. This is day three of the mold growing. Will wrap soon. Hopefully these will turn out well.
The other cheese is a white/blue that has been wrapped for a couple of weeks now. Just a few more and then I will try. Not supposed to see the blue on the outside, and one is like that. Two though have the blue competing with the white.
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Love your work Tea!
I'm a big fan of the blue brie, is this due to a blue invasion in your cave or did you plan it that way?
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Tea, great looking cheeses (not the bamboo mat, :P). I just bought a bunch of ash, so hopefully soon I'll be following you, interested to see how it works out for you.
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Bishop, the white/blue isn't exactly a Brie, but I am wanting to have another go at doing that, so thought I would try this first before giving that particular cheese another go. For this cheese however, the blue is supposed to stay on the inside and the white on the outside. It is immersed in hot water to kill off any exterior blue mould, to allow the white to grow. But I have found after dunking a few the water has cool somewhat, so the first cheese has no exterior blue growing, but subsequent cheeses have more and more. This was the middle cheese, the next cheese is almost taken over with blue.
John, sorry about the look of the mats, but I usually ash the cheese on them, and I have found that, for me anyway, the ash on the mats help stop the cheese from sticking when turning, so I leave it there. I am really hoping that these turn out too, so will keep you posted. The last lot that I did, I had wrapped and were 3 weeks into their aging, when my grandbaby turned off my fridge. Only discovered it 5 days later. What a stinking mess. sigh
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Thanks, Tea--looks as though it's coming along famously. I have found that using ash really helps prevent slipskin and the pc grows more evenly. I have made brie and ashed half of the batch and left the other without--cool experiment! The brie with ash was much more consistent in pc. Also, interested in what recipe you are following for your blue brie; specifically the "hot water wash" you are speaking of--I've never heard of that and wonder how it will work out. It seems as though it would close the holes, and I assume you are piercing. Let us know on this one!
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The recipe that I am flollowing for the blue/white from from the "Home Cheesemaking" book by Neil and Carole Willman. I pierced before the water wash, and the holes stayed open, so I didn't bother to repierce. I thought that these would be a harder crumblier (there's that word again) than a brie, but I opened the smallest one yesterday, two weeks early, as I was anxious to see what was going on, to find that they just might be a beautiful soft centre, and it also has blue growing right through.
Next time though I think that I might repierce at least once more, maybe twice, before wrapping at the two week mark. Will open the large wheels first before I decided.
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Sounds very interesting--dying to hear (and view) how it turns out. Sounds like a Cambazola recipe (Margaret Morris) that many of us have tried, that never seemed to show the blue veins. I am liking your idea of brining that probably helps in keeping the holes open so that the blue will develop. Please post pics, when available.
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CH and I have been on a mission to perfect a cambazola for years, and I know that I tried a recipe from there that didn't work too. Just to soft and the holes closed over. That why I decided to see what success I had with this recipe before venturing back to the other recipe.
I was reading a post in the "blues" section and I think LB said that a cheese could be pierced more than once. So that got me thinking about these cheeses, and whether another piercing or two during the white bloom period, might help with the internal blue growth. Worth a try anyway.
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Ok here are the cut pics of the blue/white. Very happy with how the cheese looks, but for some reason, the cheese tasted off. Had a strange after taste and smell. Aged for the time given, so wondering if maybe the fridge was too warm. It was around the 9-10C.
Anyway, I feel like I am finally getting somewhere with this cheese, so will do this again, and see if I can get the flavour right.
The ash brie is still ripening.
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Hey Tea,
How are you going to get rid of off taste on your next try? What sort of off taste was that, is that because of ash, P. Roqueforti, PC or combination of these things? Or something completely unrelated?
What sort of strange after taste, can you describe a bit? Is there any chance of cross contamination with other cheeses.
I have no solution but trying to understand the particular off taste.
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Hi,
Could it be that after cutting, the cheese just needs to air out longer? I made cams a couple times, and found that if I didn't let them "air out" they could taste a bit off. Airing them, however, tended to take care of that. By airing, I just mean leaving it out on the counter, unwrapped, and room temp for an hour or two. Have you tried that? The cheese certainly looks fantastic.
- Jeff
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Thanks everone for their imput. I truely think that this is a fridge issue, which includes my grandson turning off the fridge for me. I had thought that I had caught it early, but this cheese makes me think that I didn't.
Jeff I did let the cheese sit for 1/2 hour unwrapped before we tried, so I don't think that it is an airing issue.
So going to try this again.
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Looks good, Tea--although the paste looks a bit too firm--what do you think?
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This cheese as I originally said, is not a true blue brie. The curd was left to sit and mat, then broken up by hand before molding. Having said that, as the paste warmed up, it was very soft, so for me it was much softer than I expected. Those pics show straight out of the fridge.
So I am tossing up whether I will do a blue brie this time round, using some of the steps from this cheese, or perfect this cheese before moving onto the blue brie. I learnt alot from doing this cheese, and it has certainly given me the courage to try the blue brie again.
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Hi Tea,
Oh, that's right. I forgot about the unplugged fridge. I think that this one looks so good that it would be worth doing it again after gluing the plut into the wall to perfect it, then move on to the blue brie. That way, when it comes to a taste test, you have a proper example of this one as a benchmark. Who knows, you may prefer this version when the aging goes as planned!
- Jeff
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It's definitely all about experimentation, so whatever whey O0 you go, you will learn and build your repertoire of favorite and distinct cheese. This one looks great, Congrats!
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I made the blue white again yesterday, and I have two large wheels. So I have decided to pierce one then do the hot water bath. The other I am going to hot water bath first, then pierce on the 3rd, 5th, and 7th day, and see what difference that make to the growth of the internal blue.
My reason is because I have noticed that when I hot bath the pierced cheeses, the hot water will go completely through the cheese. Now the reason for the hot water bath is to kill off the exterior blue mould, to that there is only white on the outside and blue in the middle. But I am wondering if the bath is also killing off any interior mold as well. so thought I would experiement and see what the difference is.
Doing the brine bath this morning, so will keep you informed.
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I too am curious about that hot water wash technique. My first efforts at blues show me a really bumpy, lumpy, craggy rind and I'd like to see what the same cheese with a smooth exterior would be like.
What temperature is the hot water and what exactly is the process? You mentioned that the first cheese dipped was fairly ideal, but then the blue on subsequent cheeses dipped wasn't effectively stopped. Also, the hot water found its way into the inner paste via the piercings. That makes sense.
Seems like there are other methods for producing a smooth, non-blued rind on a blue cheese. I can't recall where I saw them though. Anyone?
-Boofer-
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Here is what the recipe calls for. After drying at room temp over night, pierce the cheese every 1.5cm, then immerse in water 90-95c for 5 seconds. Spray with a white mold supension and ripen at 12-14c for 2 weeks then wrap in foil and maintain at 7-8c for 4 weeks.
So my experiement is one will be immerced, sprayed then pierced 3 times at intervals, the other pierced immersed then sprayed.
HTH's
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Seems like there are other methods for producing a smooth, non-blued rind on a blue cheese. I can't recall where I saw them though. Anyone?
The hot water bath is not to smooth the surface, it is to kill off any exterior blue mould, before spraying on the white mold. So the end result is white on the outside and blue on the inside.The surface of this cheese is smooth like a cam or brie, so it doesn't need to be smoothed.
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The hot water bath is not to smooth the surface, it is to kill off any exterior blue mould, before spraying on the white mold. So the end result is white on the outside and blue on the inside.The surface of this cheese is smooth like a cam or brie, so it doesn't need to be smoothed.
Got it. Thanks, Tea. That's pretty much for a brie, but I wonder how well that would work for a regular blue or Stilton cheese. They are a lot more fragile and I'd probably end up with lumpy milk soup.
There has to be a safe way to achieve a white rind blue cheese.
-Boofer-
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I put the cheese back into the mould before the hot wash. It is much easier to handle. I'm not sure how a stilton would go, but I wonder if putting the cheese still in the mold back into the fridge to cool and set a little before unmolding and aging would go. I know that I leave my triple brie in the mold until I put them in the fridge. Once they are cool and "set" a little, them I take the molds off.
Just a thought.
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Well these cheeses are developing well. They are both growing a good covering of white mould, and it looks like I can see a faint growth of blue under the surface. The one I was going to pierce three times I have decided to leave at twice, as the holes are not closing up, so don't see the reason to pierce for a third time.
Will wrap these later in the week, before leaving to age.
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Update on the ash brie. In another thread LB advised that for a triple cream brie, it should ripen for 10 weeks, so I decided that I would do that. Decided to cut one and while I was really happy with the development of the paste, I was disappointed to find that the exterior rind had dried out to around a depth of 1/4 inch into the cheese? I used the correct perforated papers for wrapping, so obviously they have allowed for too much moisture to be transfered. So when ripening for this length of time are there other methods/ways to wrap them so they don't dry out.
Pics don't show it well, but the outside rind is hard and brittle. The center is lovely and soft and creamy, and I am happy with the flavour of the cheese, just the rind is a disappointment. Had a feel of the remaining wheel, and it seems to be the same. The edge seems hard, and the center feels just a little softer.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
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Oooh, that looks tasty, Tea!
Sorry about the rind. I'm seeing that type of result in some of my cheeses: tough rind, creamy paste.
I'm curious about preserving a softer, moister (edible?) rind as well.
-Boofer-
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That looks really good. What kind of wrapping papers did you use? I had read on one of the forum threads about the white paper pulling too much moisture out. I use the cellophane ones sometimes. My last Cambozolas I didn't wrap at all. Also, I notice when I use ash that it tends to dry it out more. I'm still trying to perfect using the ash with some of my cheeses, and it does seem to change the ripening.
But, that said, your cheese looks really yummy. Beautiful color on the interior.
Bonnie
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The papers I used were the perforated white paper cheese wraps supposedly made for these cheeses. I am wondering though if I used plastic wrap whether it would keep in any ammonia gasses/smells. I have been wondering whether I should try foil, as I wrap my blues in in and they aren't dried out on the edges.
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I almost ordered the white paper wraps this time around, but I decided to stick with the cellophane breathable ones. I use them on my cam's and they don't keep in any ammonia smells. I've never been able to find the foil ones.
Bonnie
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Hi tea!
Your cheese looks great! I was soooo happy to find your posts, because I have also been trying to make an ash covered blue brie. If you are using the hot water bath for this cheese, at what moment are you adding the ash?
Thanks!
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Hot water bath????
Tea, gorgeous brie. Love that yellow summer milk.
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Morning Necol, no for the straight ash brie, I didn't use the water bath. If I was to make an ash blue though, I think that I would hot water dip first, let dry for a few hours, then add the ash.
I was looking through cheeselinks website and found this below. I was wondering if this would help in the softer cheese blue's in keeping the paste open a little better for the blue veining? Any help/advice would be much appreciated.
http://shop.cheeselinks.com.au/Cheese-and-Yoghurt-Starters-Mould-Spores-and-Aroma-Cultures/Sigma-30-Saccromyces-Yeast-p151.html (http://shop.cheeselinks.com.au/Cheese-and-Yoghurt-Starters-Mould-Spores-and-Aroma-Cultures/Sigma-30-Saccromyces-Yeast-p151.html)
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Thanks!! I hadn´t seen your reply!