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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Hard Cheddared (Normally Stacked & Milled) => Topic started by: Andrew Marshallsay on April 17, 2016, 08:24:12 AM
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Double Gloucester 4 has just come out of the mould. (Do we consider that to be the moment of birth?)
The details of the make were substantially the same as for number 3 (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14709.msg112126.html#msg112126).
Because I've done these before, I wasn't going to bother with pictures of this one but the curds turned out so nicely that I just had to. So here they are.
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Wonderful looking cheese, Andrew. I will have to save your recipe for later use.
A cheese for the birthday of your cheese.
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Thanks for the cheese, Ann.
The recipe comes from Tim Smith's book "Making Artisan Cheese".
I waxed it yesterday. I'm not sure when I will open it but I am expecting to let it age for some months.
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I don't have that book, is the recipe exactly like your Gloucester 3?
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Yes, the recipe is basically the same. The one in the book is for a Cotswold which is a Double Gloucester with onions and chives added. I have included one or two details in the recipe, such as the flocculation multiplier, which you won't find in the book.
It's not actually a book I use much any more, although there is nothing wrong with the recipes. I only mentioned it to give credit where it's due.
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Hey Andrew, that looks wonderful :)
AC4U
-- Mal
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And I've bookmarked this page for later reference, and the cheese on my too-do list :) Great photos! AC4U!
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Thanks for the cheeses and the kind comments.
This recipe is a bit of a favourite.
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Never made a Gloucester, what would be a traditional aging finish for this? Wax? Natural? Bandage?
Thanks in advance :)
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what would be a traditional aging finish for this? Wax? Natural? Bandage?
That is one I didn't know and I would have guessed bandaged. A quick search though turned up this site (http://www.britishcheese.com/doublegloucester) which
tells us that it traditionally a natural rind cheese.
Personally, I wax mine but that is because I have not yet resolved my humidity problems and I don't want it to dry out too much.
The other possible answer, given that this is the cheese that is used for cheese-rolling, is the the traditional finish is grass.
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Lol...grass! ... I've seen the videos... It's something different, that's for sure.
Thanks for the insight.
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A cheese to you for a cheese well done !
I've been using PVA on just about every cheese I do now , at least the ones that need some kind of coating.
Ive had bad luck with cheese wax getting mold under it , and even worse luck with vacuum bagging , the PVA seems to move with the cheese and still breathe a bit.
Good one !
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Andrew, on your Gloucester 3 recipe, there is a reference to psi on the pressing stage.
How do you calculate how much weight to use? I don't know this psi thing, I wasn't paying attention during my science classes.
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Ive had bad luck with cheese wax getting mold under it , and even worse luck with vacuum bagging , the PVA seems to move with the cheese and still breathe a bit.
That is bad luck. I routinely wax my hard cheeses at some stage of their development to reduce drying out and I have not had problems with mould. I always hot wax and I am wondering if you did the same or if you brushed the wax on.
I vacuum bag quarters of cheese once I have cut them.
I am considering PVA but I hope to have humidity control sorted out fairly soon.
How do you calculate how much weight to use? I don't know this psi thing
PSI is pressure in pounds per square inch. (As a big fan of the metric system it is not my preferred unit but seems to be fairly ubiquitous.)
The thing is that if you give weights in pounds or kilograms it begs the question: what size mould are you using?
The same weight with different moulds will give different pressures so giving the pressure in PSI is more transferable.
To calculate the weight you need to calculate the cross-sectional area of your mould (in square inches) and multiply that by the pressure in PSI.
With the 6 1/4" (160mm) mould I used, area = 30.7 square inches. This gives the following approximate weights:
0.12 PSI is 4 lb.
0.37 PSI is 12 lb.
1.2 PSI is 36 lb.
1.5 PSI is 48 lb.
Actually, I don't worry about being too precise with weights. I like Gianaclis Caldwell's approach. She does not give weights for her recipes but takes the approach that the right amount of weight is the amount that does the job. The main things seem to be:
- Don't use too much weight, particularly early in the press. What you are looking for here is that you are only getting an oozing of the whey rather than a flow and that the whey is not too white in colour.
- You end up using enough weight , for long enough, to get a good knit.
So the general idea is, start off light and keep an eye on what is happening. Increase the weight until you get that good knit.
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Thank you for your explaination Andrew.
You have answered my curiosity, to be quite honest I have only become familiar with 'PSI' unit from watching mythbusters (they like to put things under a lot of pressure and blow it up) and here.
I agree with you on using as much weight as needed, that is what I have been doing until recent incident with a cantal that got me puzzled (more that 75 kgs and still no knit).
I am planning to make gloucester this weekend, will report the make separately afterwards.
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Ann, Cantal is a special case -- I would think it wins the award for the hardest-to-press cheese. By the time that it is pressed once, milled, salted, and then, 24 hours after being made, pressed again, it has absolutely zero inclination to stick together. Thus, when I made a 6-gallon Cantal, I went up to 900 lbs (!) for 12 hours before it really began to close up the rind completely. That was using an 8" mold, so let's see ... 4² * 3.14 ≈ 50 in², and 900 lbs. ÷ 50 in² = 18 psi.
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Personally, I wax mine but that is because I have not yet resolved my humidity problems and I don't want it to dry out too much.
Hi Andrew, have you tried using humidity buffer slurries? Potassium chloride (KCl) slurries have been working well for me, for my smaller cheeses (Cams, etc), but there's no reason they shouldn't work for larger ones. In theory one would just need to make a large enough slurry...For my mini caves I use 3 tablespoons KCl, to one of water. The little hygrometer in the lid of the Decor container came off ebay for $4...
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Hi Ann, Andy.
Cantal certainly do seem to be exceptional. This article (https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/file/index/docid/895645/filename/hal-00895645.pdf) may interest you. It outlines a commercial make for Cantal. Conversion of the numbers indicates pressures up to 25.6 PSI.
I must have been lucky with the one Cantal I made. I got away with 6.4 PSI but I did maintain that pressure for 37 hours. Total press time, after working up through lesser pressures and then pressing naked for a while at the end (the cheese, not me), was 54 hours.
Hi Wattlebloke.
No, I haven't used slurries but thanks for the suggestion. I do use aging containers for a lot of my cheeses and also a hygrometer like the one shown. Your idea of mounting the hygrometer in the lid of the aging container is a good one.
At he moment I am waiting for a humidity controller to arrive from China (ebay again), with a view to cobbling together a humidifier.
I am also in the process of testing my hygrometer. It looks like it's reading low by 8% or more.
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Wow, 25+ psi -- I did consider going up to 1200 lbs on my Cantal, which would have put me close to that, but was not sure my press would survive. I may have to make yet another press just for this purpose, this time made out of steel ... or maybe a steel / wood hybrid.
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18 psi.
Very impressive. 8)
I've never had occasion to press that heavily. I think the most I ever did was 575 pounds (13.7psi) on my Double Gloucester (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,9294.0.html).
Wow, 25+ psi -- I did consider going up to 1200 lbs on my Cantal, which would have put me close to that, but was not sure my press would survive. I may have to make yet another press just for this purpose, this time made out of steel ... or maybe a steel / wood hybrid.
When I designed my press (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4026.msg30656.html#msg30656), I wanted to ensure I could apply whatever force was needed to make a successful cheese. So far, so good.... ;)
-Boofer-
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Hi Boofer,
Yes, I was likewise wanting to be able to go as high as I could imagine going. 1200 lbs was my target ... and it might actually be doable. The lever and ram parts I have no concerns about; it is the frame that I'm not sure would make it.
With that long span on your main lever, how much does it bend when fully loaded? (Bending, of course, is no problem, so long as it doesn't deform!)
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I pressed my cantal with 180 lbs for 3.5 days (84 hours), it knit together but I can still see the jointed curds. This is a 5 gallon (20 liters) batch and already it took so much effort to press it. This might be the only time I make this type of cheese for the fear my press might not be able to handle very heavy weight.
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My press will do it >:D
And more (http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/images/smilies/smilie_thumbsup.gif)