CheeseForum.org » Forum
CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => FRESH LACTIC ACID COAGULATED - Normally Whey Removed => : JeffHamm March 17, 2012, 11:21:52 PM
-
Hi,
I decided to try making some semi-lactic goat's cheese. I picked up 2 litres of whole goat's milk, added an ice cube of FD, and after 6 hours a drop of 750 IMCU strength rennet in 1 tbls of water. Then, let it sit another 18 hours. I had curd separation, but, as the goat's milk is UHT, it was very, very soft. I put one scoop in the mould and it pretty much drained through. So, wondering how I could stiffen it up, I've bagged it and will let it drip drain first to see if I can firm up the curds before moulding it. Fingers crossed.
For any Kiwi's here, I've tried Nanny Goat Lane brand of goat's milk.
- Jeff
-
Are your molds lined with butter muslin?
-
I think the brand is irrelevant. Isn't all the UHT goats' milk processed by Fonterra? I know the goat cooperative was looking at their own processing plant, but not sure if it ever got built.
-
Pre draining in cheese cloth or straining bag is a good idea.
-
Hi anut,
No, the moulds aren't lined with cloth. I was thinking of doing that, but drained in a bag instead. If I try this again I'll line the moulds as well next time.
Hi Francois,
I'm not sure, but I think you're right. I've tossed the containers so I can't check.
The draining in the bag overnight has stiffened things up, and it's now more like stiff sour cream or a smooth cream cheese. I've loaded the moulds up and will see if it drains further. I've also placed the moulds on top of some needlepoint plastic grids as the slots in the moulds still seem a bit large for this quite soft, and still moist, curd. The taste is very goaty, but not unpleasant. If this does drain enough to produce a solid cheese, it should be quite a nice fresh goat cheese.
- Jeff
-
I also made some semi lactic both Pc and PR varients. Its really cold today (14c) so after draining and moulding im keeping it in my oven with the light on so its around 24-25c.
-
Hi Tomer1,
I bag drained mine in the regular fridge. Not sure if the cooler temperature was a good idea or not. I was thinking the general dryness of the fridge might help to remove some of the excess moisture. It's now sitting out at room temperature in the moulds. I've not added any PC to these ones. Will see how they turn out.
- Jeff
-
hi
normal goat cheese in the first step is very liquid and u will lose a lot of the cheese if u put it directly in the mold
usually i put in the mold a a cloth lie butter muslin let it drain for about 24 h out (15-25 DEGREESCELSIOS)
depends on the conditions in Ur place- best 20-25 c after that i even put some wight about 3-5 kg for a few hours t try to take out more water still out not in the frig .
after that i put it in the frig for about 24 h (4 c) to dry it even more and only after that i take it out from the mold to put it into cave for the ripening stage.....
zvi.
-
Milk with the qualification UHT is treated at temperatures of 275 to 300 F to make it completely sterile and it can not be used for making cheese...
-
I believe its been said that it can be used to make lactic cheese.
-
You could try to add powdered milk into your uht milk. That might densify those flubby cheeses
-
Hi,
Thanks for the tips. I believe the UHT milk can be used for semi-lactics, however, it may be that all I'll get is a cream cheese type and it won't set up firm enough to form cheeses. At the moment, things are still sort of at that stage. They sort of hold their shape, but they are very very soft. I salted them today, and will continue to let them drain at room temp for a few more days. I flipped them today, but that was a bit tricky as the cheeses are too soft to handle. Probably should have left them as is. Oh well, I'm mostly interested to see if this will work.
- Jeff
-
Hi Jeff.
Goat milk at the best of times tends to make a soft set and heat treating makes this worse. I suggest you add some CaCl - 1.4ml/10L - and see how that goes.
NVD.
-
I'll try CaCl2 next time. But I was under the impression that the benefits of the additional CaCl2 drop off if you add it too early prior to rennetting, and given these take about 24 hours to get a set I wasn't sure it would be helpful? However, I would not put it past me to have misread/misunderstood the previous posts.
- Jeff
-
I quoted from the book "Making artisan cheese" from Tim Smith where he is clearly stating that you can't use UHT milk for making cheese...
UHT Milk
Ultra Heat-Treated (UHT) milk is popular in other parts of
the world, but in the United States it barely makes a
showing in the total consumer milk market. UHT milk has
been treated at a whopping 275°F to 300°F (135°C–
150°C). Ouch! Its popularity lies in the fact that it does not
require refrigeration until after the package has been
opened, thus giving it an extended shelf life. Walk into a
French supermarket, and you will be amazed at the UHT
milk displays sitting outside of refrigeration. Needless to
say, this is a sterile product that cannot be used for cheese
making.
Bottom line: Not suitable for cheese making.
-
Hi hoeklijn,
I certainly wouldn't try to make a pressed cheese with UHT, that's for sure. However, if one simply wanted to make a simple fresh cream cheese, let's say, then based upon what I've got now UHT would be more than adequate. So, it's not quite right to say UHT is not suitable for making cheese, since it is suitable for "bag cheese" at least. I was thinking it might just firm up enough to give me a fresh, semi-lactic goat's cheese. Jury is still out on that I'm afraid.
- Jeff
-
In terms of CaCl my understanding is that its best to add it sooner rather than later before renneting. One of the problems of the internet is that if you keep searching you will eventually find something that contradicts everything else! Anyway, I add CaCl at least 30mins before renneting and have good results. But, I think I remember Linuxboy saying that in a lactic curd adding CaCl is of no value since with low pH most of the calcium is lost from the curd anyway. I will be interested in your results.
NVD.
-
I thouht UHT was the long shelf life refrigirated kind.
Why would anyone buy the boxed shelf stable kind? It has a weird taste from the maillard reaction going on.
-
Thats right, its not the best quality milk to use but sometimes its the only option. Especially when using goat milk.
NVD
-
Yah, the box milk is not much good except for making mother culture ice cubes (since it's sterile you can get your own culture in there to take over in peace). Since it's the only goat's milk I have easy access to I thought I would give this a try. Nothing ventured nothing gained, as they say.
- Jeff
-
Im surprised nz doesn't have fresh goat milk - there are heaps of goat dairies over there.
I know when Australia runs short we import barrel loads of frozen goat milk, thaw and process it into 'fresh' milk and cheese etc.
Keep me posted how it turns out.
NVD>
-
Hi NVD,
Francois mentioned that he thinks Fontera buys up all the goat's milk and processes it. So, much like our lamb, the good stuff goes for export and the leftovers "trickle down". I've not seen any regularly pasturized goat's milk for sale in the stores, just the box stuff, but it could just be the stores I've been looking in. These cheeses are firm enough to take out of the mould, but we'll see if they hold their shape. I don't think I could pick them up without deforming it though. The taste is good (not the best cheese in the world, but it's edible, and would be nice as a spread, etc). Still, these semi-lactics can take ages to drain, so I'll just let it sit a bit longer. Will probably move it to the fridge after work though. Will try and get photos before I destroy them by trying to pick one up.
- Jeff
-
Fonterra doesn't buy it, they process it under contract for the goat cooperative. You might try cottage crafts milk map. You might also try finding a goat cooperative farm and asking if you can buy directly from them.
-
Oooops! That "buy it" was a slip, thanks Francois. They process it all.
The milk map shows a few goat places not too far away, like Waiuku, so it could be done.
- Jeff
-
Hi,
Well, here are my two little goat cheeses. One cracked as you can see. They're not the prettiest flower in the bed, but for a first attempt and with low quality milk, not too bad. One has picked up a bit of b.linen contamination. When they are first out of the regular fridge they are firm enough that I could wrap them, and I think I will. Not sure how soft and gooey they will go when they warm up, but we'll see. Taste is good, starts off a bit like apples then a mild goatiness builds up and morphs the flavour (but in a good way). The paste is very creamy and smooth. They will need to be eaten fairly quickly, but that's fine. They're not huge. In the end, I think these are quite acceptable cheeses. Oh yah, the two of them total 270g (they are within a few grams of each other, so each is about 135g).
- Jeff
-
Hard to see but it looks from here like the paste is nice.
-
i dont think bag drying in the fridge was a good idea. Since that milk is tired as it is, maybe you could try to keep it a constant temperature, until drying stage. Plus refridgerators are a bacterial playground. That bacteria wont develop cold.
-
Looks good. Congrats!
-
Hi Frotte La Tomme,
Yah, I think draining at room temp would have been better as well. I made quark recently, and it calls to be drained in the refridgerator, and I just sort of did the same thing. But upon reflection, this is quite a different cheese and it was going to require room temp for a few days anyway. Still, once it was bag drained and moved to the moulds, it was back up to room temp. But that's probably not the best way to keep the cheese bac's happy.
Thanks DejayDebbie and anut,
The paste has turned out quite nice. Very smooth and creamy.
- Jeff
-
well, considering you used UHT milk, which to my knowledge wasn't suitable for making cheese, I think you did a good jobs. I hope for you the taste turns out to be fine.
Fortunately I'm able to get fresh raw milk, from a goat farm nearby and from a small cheese farm on a ten minutes drive. Last Saturday morning I had my 20 liters of milk during milking time right from the milking machine. When I came home the milk was still at a 33C so I could add the culture immediately...
-
Hi hoeklijn,
It worked, but only just. The taste is quite good. It has a fruitiness initially, which then picks up a more goat cheese characteristic. A nice long smooth finish as well. The curds are very very soft, and I lost some to sticking to the moulds, etc. These require a lot of gentle handling to get them to the finish line. You could never make anything like a goat's milk caerphilly, or a goats milk gouda, using this milk, which is what I think the books mean by you can't use UHT milk for cheese (pressed cheeses). But, these semi-lactics seem to be doable, and a simple fresh "bag drained" cheese would be great. Of course, you are in the better situation with fresh milk available to you so my hat's off to you!
- Jeff
-
A final update on these. These have turned out to be a real hit. The cheese reamains soft, and is easily spreadable on a baggette, where it is very nice. Would be brilliant on a toasted bagel. Took the second one over to my sister-in-laws and shared it with the family and they all really liked it. Very creamy and smooth, with a very nice taste. Not too strong, but not bland either. So, there's just a tiny smidge left. Might have to make these again actually.
- Jeff
-
I did a twist on this , mixed some freshly drained yogurt with the pre-drained and salted semi lactic curds.
It grew a white coat and a week later I found it too acidic so I droped the humidity so it can dry and harden.
-
I did a twist on this , mixed some freshly drained yogurt with the pre-drained and salted semi lactic curds.
It grew a white coat and a week later I found it too acidic so I droped the humidity so it can dry and harden.
Did you taste it or take a ph reading?
-
I tasted it, I figure its around 4-4.2.
-
Did you add PC or geo for the white coat? Any photos?
- Jeff
-
Pc but I usually get some wild geo. I'l take some tomorow.