Hi guy, I got my FD here and I'm ready to make some buttermilk.
But I wanna make a mother culture 1st, so should I pasteurize my milk for my FD mother culture? (I can get raw milk easily and I prefer to use em anyway)
I know that native bacteria can give some flavor profile but problem is I don't know what kind of bacteria living here :-[
Also what's the best way to gently pasteurize the milk? at what temperature and for how long.
Another question, I read Sailor's MC making post and I read the dosage etc ,, is it set in stone? Like will it be ok if I add less bacteria per ounce thn what Sailor suggestedin his post, will it be still viable to make the MC? I assume that I'll have to wait longer for to bacteria to multiply if I add less bacteria than the recommended dosage.
So can someone give me some insight?
If you are going to use fresh raw milk when you make cheese then it will not matter "much " if you pasteurize or not as far as flavor goes .
I say "much" becuase it could be that if you culture raw milk you may select for wild organisms that change the flavor profile of the starter ,
I would experiment with both ways to see if one starter taste better than the other , and maybe even try each in a cheese to see how the effects after aging .
Not an expert on this, so hopefully Sailor will chime in, or others with more experience.
But lack of expertise knowledge a clue experience has never prevented me from chiming in. :) So my two cents: I would say that for the mother culture, you would want to pasteurize the milk so that you do not wind up with a starter dominated by things you don't want. Low temperature pasteurization does the least damage - 140°F (60°C) for 30 minutes. But it may be that, for this purpose, higher temperature pasteurization is fine.
When you add this starter (mother culture) to the raw milk, you will be encouraging the dominance of the desired bacteria, but still gaining the nuances brought by all of the natural bacteria.
For the mother culture I usually sterilize a jar with milk in boiling water for 30 minutes. Kill'em all! I mean all side bacteria. The high temperature doesn't affect the milk souring so the mother culture comes out clean and good. :D Otherwise you never know what thing can grow in a raw milk unless you milk your own cow or buy the milk from the certain farm.
Quote from: Gregore on February 02, 2017, 03:22:57 PM
If you are going to use fresh raw milk when you make cheese then it will not matter "much " if you pasteurize or not as far as flavor goes .
I say "much" becuase it could be that if you culture raw milk you may select for wild organisms that change the flavor profile of the starter ,
I would experiment with both ways to see if one starter taste better than the other , and maybe even try each in a cheese to see how the effects after aging .
I'm making buttermilk O0
well about culturing raw milk.. im not that confident :-[
Quote from: awakephd on February 02, 2017, 03:53:12 PM
Not an expert on this, so hopefully Sailor will chime in, or others with more experience.
But lack of expertise knowledge a clue experience has never prevented me from chiming in. :) So my two cents: I would say that for the mother culture, you would want to pasteurize the milk so that you do not wind up with a starter dominated by things you don't want. Low temperature pasteurization does the least damage - 140°F (60°C) for 30 minutes. But it may be that, for this purpose, higher temperature pasteurization is fine.
When you add this starter (mother culture) to the raw milk, you will be encouraging the dominance of the desired bacteria, but still gaining the nuances brought by all of the natural bacteria.
yeah ... I agree.. for MC i'll pasteurize the milk ...just so that my FD can be the dominate bacteria ..
thanks ;D
Quote from: Vnature on February 02, 2017, 07:33:56 PM
For the mother culture I usually sterilize a jar with milk in boiling water for 30 minutes. Kill'em all! I mean all side bacteria. The high temperature doesn't affect the milk souring so the mother culture comes out clean and good. :D Otherwise you never know what thing can grow in a raw milk unless you milk your own cow or buy the milk from the certain farm.
so i just sterilize the jar filled milk?
interesting ... I read somewhere on the internet that you need to stir occasionally during the pasteurization
Quote from: achik1990 on February 03, 2017, 12:51:48 AM
I read somewhere on the internet that you need to stir occasionally during the pasteurization
Stirring at pasteurization helps to avoid overheating of the lower part of milk. It is very important for the gentle pasteurization. But when we talk about heating up to 95C (203F) it doesn't matter whether you stir the milk or not.
Quote from: Vnature on February 03, 2017, 05:40:36 AM
Quote from: achik1990 on February 03, 2017, 12:51:48 AM
I read somewhere on the internet that you need to stir occasionally during the pasteurization
Stirring at pasteurization helps to avoid overheating of the lower part of milk. It is very important for the gentle pasteurization. But when we talk about heating up to 95C (203F) it doesn't matter whether you stir the milk or not.
wait... wont the boiling milk burst out from the bottle if you heat it that way??
Does steam pasteurization work for pasteurizing milk?
Quote from: achik1990 on February 04, 2017, 05:58:12 AM
wait... wont the boiling milk burst out from the bottle if you heat it that way??
Not, it wouldn't. ::) I put the glass jar of milk, a
closed metal lid, in a pot of water and boil the water for 30 minutes. And nothing terrible happens. It looks pretty scary but only for the first time. I did it plenty of times. The milk inside the jar
doesn't boil. Ok, you may not believe me. :D Next time I'll shoot the video and post it here so you can see this kind of magic :) I only put a piece of cloth under the jar to protect the glass bottom from the sharp heating .
Quote from: Vnature on February 04, 2017, 12:48:58 PM
Quote from: achik1990 on February 04, 2017, 05:58:12 AM
wait... wont the boiling milk burst out from the bottle if you heat it that way??
Not, it wouldn't. ::) I put the glass jar of milk, a closed metal lid, in a pot of water and boil the water for 30 minutes. And nothing terrible happens. It looks pretty scary but only for the first time. I did it plenty of times. The milk inside the jar doesn't boil. Ok, you may not believe me. :D Next time I'll shoot the video and post it here so you can see this kind of magic :) I only put a piece of cloth under the jar to protect the glass bottom from the sharp heating .
Thanks mate :D
yeah it does sound scary ... boiling milk blowing up .. imagine the heat/glass shrapnel flying everything :-X
If it was going to blow up,there would be no such thing as canning food.
;D ;D
Quote from: Gregore on February 05, 2017, 05:44:43 AM
If it was going to blow up,there would be no such thing as canning food.
;D ;D
true enough ... :P
well I might try this tomorrow O0
Quote from: achik1990 on February 05, 2017, 06:44:30 AM
well I might try this tomorrow O0
Good luck!
But don't place the hot glass jar in a cold water after boiling because the glass can crack in a moment.
Which suggests that you need to use a canning (mason) jar and canning lid, not over-tightened - i.e., equipment made to handle the pressure and heat, not just a mayo jar you happen to have lying around. :)
This will effectively be a "water bath canning" procedure -- but do NOT think that the milk is properly preserved (canned), even though the lid will probably seal. Milk that has not been allowed to acidify is not low enough pH to prevent botulism, and hot-water-bath canning is not high enough heat to kill off the spores.
Oops, I did it again (c) ;D
I use low fat milk for a mother culture because I've read it's the best way.
I've been trying to shoot the video but there was the problem with the focus or maybe with my hands.
As you can see the thermometer displays the jar surface temperature.