CheeseForum.org ยป Forum
GENERAL BOARDS => Introductions => Topic started by: crashtest on June 24, 2008, 01:25:54 PM
-
Hello everyone, I'm a recent but enthusiastic starter to the art of cheee making. My efforts thus far are limited to Camembert and Mozzarella suggested by book and limited by equipment.... simple recipies & the Mozzarella a no brianer, but I'm seriously struggling to keep a Camembert round beyond 12 days without without spoil.
Now at Camembert Project '4', my rounds were wrapped in celulose film after 10 days, and slipped into a plastic container at 10 degrees....two days later both rounds become bloated and smelly?
Having no experience, and my book having no page on bloated cheese, I wonder if anyone will advise if this is a normal occurance, or must I try, try, try, try, try, try, again?
One day perhaps I can offer advice, till then I'm limited to banter and opinion on world afairs.
Kind regards to all,
Crashtest.
-
i can welcome you crashtest but can't help you with your Camembert dilemma as i have never tried one myself. only been making cheese here for a few months myself.
hope one of the others can assist you
reg
-
G'day Mate
Welcome to the forums hope we can help you and you with us. I've been making fresh and pressed cheeses for a while and generally turned out well. My "Holy Grail" is to make Cambozola (http://cheeseforum.org/Cheese/Cambozola/Cambozola.htm) for which the next stepping stone is to also try making Camembert. So I am really glad you are further up the learning curve, albeit currently with problems. I found a bunch of info on making Camembert the last few says which I'll post when home tonight. I'll also revert with some info on bloating tonight but basically I think your problem is from an unwanted bacteria taking over your again process. To help people here find what's going wrong, a few questions:
- What is your milk source?
- What is your culture source?
- Did you get nice white mould development?
- When you say placed in plastic container, are you sealing your live cheeses in them?
- When you cut a bloated cheese open, what is it like?
For me, I'm going to make own 4" x 4" open ended hoops from white PVC pipe and am ready to order the Penicillium Candidum (http://cheeseforum.org/Glossary.htm#Penicillium_Candidum) and the papers from a supply store here in US. Questions:
- What diameter are the holes in the hoops?
- What are you using for end mats (http://cheeseforum.org/Making/Mats.htm), I was thinking of using sushi mats unless you have a better idea?
- Anything else I need to order?
- How many do you make at a time?
Welcome again and kudo's on trying Camenbert, even if bloated (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?topic=221.0) ;)!
-
Welcome crashtest. We all seem to be here to learn from each other. There is a lot of information on here, but I am of no help to you as I am really new at this.
When you find out what works well, be sure and let us know.
-
thanks for the kind words, there were some questions there., I'll give it a go.
* What is your milk source? - store bought, suplemented by Calcium Chloride (1ml per 5 litres)
* What is your culture source? - Hermeticaly sealled DVT. Used direct not pre-made...
* Did you get nice white mould development? Yes, lmmaculate, and white all over.
* When you say placed in plastic container, are you sealing your live cheeses in them? - in two plastic containers. One inside the other, both vented but with a cloth to prevent access by wee beasties.
* When you cut a bloated cheese open, what is it like? - can't face it, stinks to high heaven! The prospect of opening one of these bombs is beyond me.
==============================================
I've attempted to place some pictures in below, not sure if this'll work.
* What diameter are the holes in the hoops? - Hoop holes are very small - 1/16" inch (2mm).
* What are you using for end mats, - Muslin, not too coarse else the curds stick to the cloth breaking
a seal formed during the whey removal. Turn regularly, every hour or so till you fall asleep.
* Anything else I need to order? ..no, simple kitchen stuff..I've already bought my Roquefort Penecillin in anticipation of cracking the Camembert...
* How many do you make at a time? - Six litres gives me two rounds, total 800gms. <--( 1.7lbs?)
===============================================================
I've tried to post some pictures below, not sure if this'll work.
Inner chamber.
(http://C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\My Pictures\cheese\26062008(001).jpg)
Outer Chamber
(http://C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\My Pictures\cheese\26062008.jpg)
Rounds
(http://C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\My Pictures\cheese\26062008(002).jpg)
Else, I'll attach them using the buttons below. .
-
Someone asked about the moulds.
-
Hi again crashtest
Great details and snaps, thanks. I researched my documents and couldn't find an example of bloating with Camemberts, so no easy solution. As I also want to make them, I started researching them and posting info links and my recipe-directions notes here (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?topic=225.0).
From what I can read and from your notes, you are doing everything right except I don't understand the need for wrapping in celulose (I think we call that celophane here in Canada/USA?) and then additionally inside two plastic containers. From what I've read, making Camembert is very tempermental and like pressed cheeses, highly subject to temperature & humidity. I assume you triple wrapping them to control humidity as you are in a very dry environment (opposite to me, we have palm trees in back garden)? I think this could be too high as in the pictures you can see condensation built up inside on your first picture, have you measured the humidity (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?topic=76.0) in there? The pictures of the Camemberts before going into system look beautiful like you say. Could it be that by putting them in there you have made a perfect environment for encouraging the wrong, bloating flora resulting in your stink bombs :P? Also, all I could read shows a steady cooler environment for Camembert during the process, what temperatures are you at?
Frankly your pre-"Hot House" white Camemberts look wonderful, I'd have probably eaten one right there and then ;D!
PS: Are your hoops open ended at both ends, picture looks like just one but I may be wrong . . .
-
Hi crashtest and welcome to the board. You efforts look just like mine, and even though I wrapped mine in the "proper" foil wraps, they still went just like yours did, between day 4 to day 6. I put it down to not being able to keep it at a constant cool enough temp, as I live in the tropics.
Cheesehead the hoops as you call them look exactly like the ones that I have, and they are in fact baskets, so yes they do have a bottom in them.
I am going to try them as a hoop, hopefully this week, and see how pressing a cheese in them will work.
Crashtest, hope you can get to post regularly with your results.
Tracey
-
thanks Tea & CheeseeHead...I've since had expert advice from a local legend. I hope she'll not mind my posting the advice:
=====================================================
Hi Alex,
The main reason that the cheese puffs up is because of contaminants in
the cheese (did you pasteurise the milk?). Other reasons for this could
be because the cheese wasn't stored at the right temperature. There is
also the possibility that the starter hasn't worked properly (not enough
starter or the temperature was not correct in the making, meaning that
it hasn't worked well enough.)
If any of these seem as though the might explain what happened, let me
know. Otherwise you can let me know more about what you did when you
made the cheese and maybe we can get to the bottom of the problem.
Cheers,
Carole
Carole Willman
Manager
Cheeselinks
PO Box 146
Little River
Vic Australia 3211
http://www.cheeselinks.com.au
============================================
I've been using the DVT starter directly, and it's also possible the temp has lifted above the 12 degrees C.= F ?
I'll try again...how'd Tea go ?
kind regards all,
Alex, aka Crashtest.
-
Crash test do I take it that your an Aussie?
If so were abouts?
My results using them as a mold, can be found in the recipe section under the Monterey Jack posts.