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CHEESE TYPE BOARDS (for Cheese Lovers and Cheese Makers) => RENNET COAGULATED - Semi-Hard "Sweet" Washed Curd => Topic started by: ezabel on May 17, 2016, 12:44:22 AM
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A question to any who have attempted making Havarti on the forum.
This is a cheese that we eat/buy quite a lot of at home, so I would like to try it as my next cheese making attempt.
The recipe book I have been using is:
Home Cheesemaking (2nd Edition) by Neil and Carol Willman.
My problem comes at the hooping stage, as this recipe calls for the curds to be hooped then turned regularly for 2 hours (almost like a quick Camembert treatment) before bathing in a cold water (8 to 10 degrees C) solution for 2 hours, then into a 20% brine bath for 2 hours.
Every recipe I've seen on the forum requires some form of pressing, and I'm just worried that by not doing so, and only allowing the weight of the curd itself to press, whether or not I will get a proper knit, especially as the curds have been cooled to 28 degrees C at this point.
Any idea's or thoughts will be appreciated, as I'm planning on making a 10l batch tomorrow.
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Never made havarti but what is the pressing weight , I am assuming you do not have a press. 8 pounds is easy enough with a water jug , any more and you will need some steel weights
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I made havarti and I needed no more that 7 kilos at the most to press it. It create bubbles inside the cheese similar to tomme (I think).
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Hello,
I made a pretty successful Havarti recently.
http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,15229.0.html (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,15229.0.html)
and followed this recipe pretty much to the letter...
https://www.cheesemaking.com/store/pg/208-Havarti.html (https://www.cheesemaking.com/store/pg/208-Havarti.html)
It only required about 16 lbs of weight at the most. I know many on the forums here also recommend pressing while submerged in the whey. I want to try that next to see what the difference is.
I chickened out and didnt brine it as long as I should have and I think the flavor outcome suffered a bit for it as I would have liked more salt in the flavor profile so lesson learned. Next time I will brine longer.
I can tell you that I am totally satisfied with the texture, and composition of the cheese.... I think it turned out really well... nice and flexible and overall a very edible cheese.
You can try and follow the recipe you have exactly and see what happens or add a little weight. A gallon milk jug filled with water will give you about 8lbs. Give it a shot, take notes, and see what happens.
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ksk2175: I had most certainly looked at your post on the dill Havarti. Very nice looking cheese. I've decided I'll go with the recipe I have as it is with no pressing, just regular turning and see what it turns out of the mold like after 2 hours. If no clean knit, I'll press. To be honest, the other 3 cheeses I've made from the book (Camembert, Gouda and Caerphilly) have all turned out pretty good at this point (eyeball appraisal only as they're not ready to cut yet :P), so i guess they know what they're writing about :D
Gregore: I have a press!!! The whole point of my question is that the book i'm using has no pressing involved at all. You can't give a weight when none is prescribed. I was hoping someone from this side of the world (or further afield) may have used this book before, or another recipe that had no pressing involved and could offer some assistance.
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Does the recipe give a ph at hooping?
Usually non pressed cheeses are hooped when the curds are still above 6.2 or there abouts and thus the curds will chemically bond .
How much time from cutting to hooping?
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Gregore: No to pH level at hooping
If I follow all the processes to the letter then from cutting the curd to hooping is 1:50 (110 mins)
Roughly its as follows
- Cut curd, wait 5, then stir gently for 20 mins
- Drain 1/3 whey, then add 2litres of 60 degree C water to curd to bring temp up to 38C
- Stir intermittently for 70 minutes, maintaining temp
- Drain half whey, add cold water to bring temp down to 28C
- Rest 5 minutes before draining curds
- Hoop
- Turn regularly for 2 hours, then add to cold water bath (8-10C) for 2 hours.
- place into cool 20% brine Solution 3.5 hours
- Air dry.
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Well...that recipe certainly reflects the washed curd concept of havarti... Perhaps the non pressing hooping preserves or mimics the small air pockets the culture usually creates as commonly found in havarti. If I may ask...What culture(s) and time before the rennet was added was your recipe asking for?
MesoII and aroma B combo with medium to firm pressing works for my Havarti.
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Hi Fritz. The recipe calls for Flora Danica/Mesophilic Aromatic for it's starter.
Rennet is 2ml per 10 litres milk, diluted at 10.1 rate.
Rennet is added at same time as starter culture, then a 40 minute wait till curd cutting.
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That all sounds good.... Need to get me that book... Already have too many ....lol
I look forward to hearing how that worked out for you...please do a follow up when you cut into your havarti and hopefully some pics and your taste test will teach us a new trick... well ... for me anyways :)
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The washing of the curd with fresh water should slow down the acid development and keep the curds at a acid level that allows the curd to bind well , it will also make the cheese more moist pliable when finished .
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So way, way, way back in the mists of time on this forum (2009 :o) I found a post by a now non-active member called Tea who had also used the book I am using for his Havarti recipe. This one was in a thread questioning the soaking in a cold water bath before the brining process. His cheese had turned out as I thought it might (no photo's back then for him) but he describes the poor internal structure when he finally opened the cheese. Subsequently he says he lightly pressed his, so I'm going to put that step into my recipe. Plan to make on 24/5/15
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Maybe I misunderstood your last post... Ergo I'm confused.
'Tea' made a havarti that he pressed and wasn't happy with the internal structure... But yet you want your next havarti to include the same pressing step?
The question begs to ask .... What will you do differently?
Is to possible that following the recipe in the book may actually work? :)
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Wasn't trying to be confusing Fritz. I was saying Tea had posted that he made the cheese from the same recipe as I have which calls for just turning the curd, rather than pressing. The resulting cheese was very poorly formed on the inside upon cutting. From then on he decided to always press them.
From when I had first seen the recipe I had concerns that this is what was likely to happen so right from my first question I was asking if anyone else here had ever made a non-pressed Havarti.
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Got it now.. Thanks for the clarification :) good luck indeed, let us know...
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So I made the Havarti yesterday. First couple of flips using no pressing and the external surface was something ridged like an Alligator skin so I pressed lightly for 2 hours with the regular flipping.
I guess a combination of the cold water bath (2 hours) and relatively quick brining (3.5 hours in a 20% brine) have made for a rather yellow cheese that has a very different feel to it than the other cheeses I've made to date which have all been brined for 12 hours after being pressed overnight. Slightly more give to it, or "rubbery" for want of a better description.
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Mad Millie press? Has those distinct vertical lines :) looks good, congrats! My first Havarti was a real "botanical growth and Petri dish - science experiment" when left to age... I've since learned to bag and tag early with havarti...